Just so we can clear the air on the substance here of Lie-Gate

[bluestateguy]

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care/

False: Illegal Immigrants Will Be Covered

One Republican congressman issued a press release claiming that "5,600,000 Illegal Aliens May Be Covered Under Obamacare," and we’ve been peppered with queries about similar claims. They’re not true. In fact, the House bill (the only bill to be formally introduced in its entirety) specifically says that no federal money would be spent on giving illegal immigrants health coverage:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

Also, under current law, those in the country illegally don’t qualify for federal health programs. Of interest: About half of illegal immigrants have health insurance now, according to the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center, which says those who lack insurance do so principally because their employers don’t offer it.

[Lifelong Protester]

1. thank you and good to know

the facts, that is.

[Betsy Ross]

2. Then who pays when they end up in the ER?

We all pay through medical costs or taxes.

[doc03]

4. That's what I am thinking also. Is it not true that they can't turn

anyone away from treatment at an emergency room? So if an illegal alien goes to the emergency room and has no insurance we the taxpayers do end up paying the bill.

[Bluerthanblue]

5. they can and do turn people away from treatment at ER's-

unless the person is critical, and then they often stabilize and transfer to the nearest public hospital.

[Horse with no Name]

7. First of all, they are PEOPLE, not ALIENS.

Please. They are people that come here to work largely because of OUR policy that trickles down shit into their country.
Would you rather they lay down and DIE in the streets than to use your precious resources?
You do know they are not the problem in the healthcare industry, but that it is a RW talking point that you have delivered quite nicely?

[doc03]

10. I know they are people, That is not my point.

If (anyone) is treated in a hospital and they don't have insurance, someone pays that bill, right. So to say illegals will not be included is technically untrue. Tell me how it is not.

[Horse with no Name]

12. When you can speak of undocumented workers with respectful language

then we can talk. "Illegals" and "Aliens" are highly inflammatory and bigoted. I'm not interested in that discourse.

[doc03]

14. So change the subject and make it into a

argument about undocumented workers, illegal workers, aliens, people or whatever the PC term is. That has absolutely nothing to do with the subject. The subject is when anyone can't pay their medical bills who pays? We pay one way or the other either through higher insurance premiums or taxes. So to say this health care plan doesn't pay for them may be technically true. But the American people do pay the bill one way or the other. I am just trying to make the point taxpayers do foot whatever bills they do not pay.

[doc03]

17. They are "illegal" undocumented workers. We have immigration

laws that they didn't follow and they illegally entered the country. So I think illegal is the appropriate term. That goes for Mexicans, Russians, British, Canadians whoever. Change the law to we will take everyone in the entire world into this country until we are busting at the seams then I wouldn't call them illegal. Either follow the laws or change them.

[Horse with no Name]

18. It is bigoted language

I showed you a link where your ASSumption was incorrect, however, have you read it?

[doc03]

26. I read the link and it proves nothing, it just says

they are less likely to visit a doctor. Maybe they are but if you have several million undocumented workers those that do still cost the taxpayers a lot of money. How is it bigoted? We have laws they didn't follow the laws so therefore they are illegally in the country and are law breakers and I will call them illegal until they change the laws..

[doc03]

11. I really have no idea how much It contributes to

it nationally, but isn't that a big reason California is in such serious financial trouble?

[Horse with no Name]

13. Not at all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6506522&mesg_id=6507015

[doc03]

22. That link doesn't prove they don't contribute to the problem

it merely says they are less likely to seek treatment but it doesn't deny some do. It doesn't give any figures to support the claims. Someone has to know, does it cost $1b 10b 20b 100b? Just what percentage of California's population are undocumented workers or whatever you want to call them? If you say have 10 million and even if they are 50% less likely to go to a doctor than the average Californian that would still cost the taxpayers a ton of money I would think.

[Horse with no Name]

23. READ. Just because someone is brown, doesn't mean they are

undocumented.
The article CLEARLY states that they are NOT the problem in healthcare.

I gave you the information--you can't say you don't know the truth...only that you will CONTINUE to ignore the truth.

[doc03]

27. It does not clearly state they are not the problem it

just states they are not as much as some may think. They are part of the problem and do contribute a certain percentage to the huge deficit in California you can't deny that. It may be only 5% I don't know but they do contribute to the problem.

[pilar007]

16. No it is not.

[Zoeisright]

25. THANK you!

I'm amazed at how people just love to dehumanize other human beings.

Not to mention that WHEN uninsured people get a contagious disease, all those smug people who think they're safe are going to be as shit out of luck as the rest of us. NOBODY lives in a bubble.

[silverweb]

3. So Joe's an idiot as well as rude.

Why am I not surprised?

He's a member of the House of Representatives and it is the House bill -- which he presumably voted on and should have read at least a summary of -- that contradicts him.

Way to go, Joe! :rofl:

[SpiralHawk]

6. Joe's another Republicon liar.

That's the fact of the matter.

He lied, and projected his own lying nature on to someone else, the President of the United States.

That's a double lie. That's republiconism.

[texpatriot2004]

8. Thank you for the facts. nm

[Horse with no Name]

9. Let's add some more FACTS to this discussion

so we don't whip up the xenophobes into a frenzy.

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/27/local/me-immigrants27

>>>snip
Illegal immigrants from Mexico and other Latin American countries are 50% less likely than U.S.-born Latinos to use hospital emergency rooms in California, according to a study published Monday in the journal Archives of Internal Medicine.

The cost of providing healthcare and other government services to illegal immigrants looms large in the national debate over immigration.

>>>snip
But the study found that while illegal immigrants are indeed less likely to be insured, they are also less likely to visit a doctor, clinic or emergency room.

"The current policy discourse that undocumented immigrants are a burden on the public because they overuse public resources is not borne out with data, for either primary care or emergency department care," said Alexander N. Ortega, an associate professor at UCLA's School of Public Health and the study's lead author. "In fact, they seem to be underutilizing the system, given their health needs."

[BuyingThyme]

15. I think there may be more to this... If you REALLY want to be honest.

[bluestateguy]

19. Well

We already pay for illegal immigrants health care when they show up at the emergency room and they don't pay. We all end up paying for that.

[BuyingThyme]

21. Yes, and I think there were questions regarding when it's appropriate

to ask patients for proof of citizenship and the like.

Not valid fodder for real debate, but plenty good for insane Pukes.

[Hello_Kitty]

20. Since a lot of employers are lying about the status of their employees

It stands to reason that many undocumented immigrants have it.

IMHO I think they should be eligible for it. They're here and working. They should be covered.

[ddeclue]

24. You know I wish we WOULD actually cover them.

They are human beings you know and Americans are being covered by Mexico for medical emergencies just as a way to get us to come back to their tourist spots and Americans in Canada and who travel to Europe and Japan will likewise get covered if they need it while abroad there.

Whatever happened to decency and hospitality?