I don't fucking want health insurance.

[TransitJohn]

Please quit telling me that's what I want Mr. Axelrod. Jesus fuck! What is so hard to understand? Like I really want to be extorted for hundreds of dollars a month to pay hundreds more if I actually have to file a claim.

[smokey nj]

1. Amen!

[Zoeisright]

2. Yep. I'm sick of being soaked by the insurance mafia.

I'm scared to file any kind of claim at all. I have individual insurance and I KNOW I would be dropped if I had to use it for anything more than an ingrown toenail.

Universal Health Care. NOW.

[TransitJohn]

4. I've filed a claim once for my daughter.

Who sprained an ankle on a school trip last January. One claim in my life. They covered almost nothing. They picked up about 15% of the bill. But I get to pay my $300/month, every month, religiously.

[spanone]

21. you obviously didn't hear the speech tonight.

[Zoeisright]

47. Yes I did. And I'm not hopeful.

Delaying a public option by even a month is going to kill thousands of Americans. Is that okay with you??

[girl gone mad]

87. I think he heard it. wmhhbtfs.

[moriah]

93. wmhhbtfs ? pardon my ignorance....

... but if that's an acronym, can you spell it out for me?

[Horse with no Name]

3. Pre-existing conditions aren't the only problems

but I guess it makes a nice soundbite...

[GCP]

5. You have to have insurance to drive a car

You should be mandated to have health insurance - otherwise the rest of us are paying for you.

[TransitJohn]

6. Sweet.

So who can I sell my body to? I'd like to walk from here on out. Thanks for the fatuous response.

[GCP]

8. I would like single payer

With a payroll deduction - obviously we aren't going to get it.
UK residents don't get free healthcare - it's paid for by payroll deduction.
So as a society we all have to have some kind of insurance - why is that fatuous?

[TransitJohn]

11. Social insurance is fine.

This criminal for-profit extortion and racketeering the President is behind is not. See the difference?

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. What we are getting is the swiss system, or the german system

private companies, sure, highly regulated... 100% coverage

I'd rather have the canadian system, but that ain't gonna happen in my lifetime or in this country.

Hey, at least it could be worst, we could be getting the hybrid system Mexico has... and it looks like that is not what he wants... now watch congress like a hawk.

[Neecy]

53. I don't see where this will be 'highly regulated'

NO caps on executive salaries, NO guarantee of affordable pricing, NO guarantee that you won't be gouged for your age or pay higher for pre-existing conditions.

In fact, I saw little regulation at all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Hmm that would be the devil is in details department

you expected to see those details in a speech?

Read the bill before it comes to the house and senate. I am willing to bet there will be regulations in place

But this is the German or Swiss model

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91971406

Realize some of our companies play in that market too

[Neecy]

77. I think we heard the extent of 'regulation' tonight

Ending the pre-existing condition clauses, not letting them cancel your policy for phony reasons just as you need care - I think that's the extent of what we're going to see. Yes, these are very good things and I support them.

Even Ford and Nixon had price controls - the ONE thing that would actually have teeth - and you heard nothing about that tonight, even though the insurance companies will be getting 40+ million new customers by government fiat. Instead we won't even get the weak insurance exchange for four years - nothing about keeping them from hiking up prices in the meantime.

We lost single payer, we lost the public option (so weakened as to be almost useless) and now we're going to have to fight for regulation of what is essentially now a public utility, given how we're forced to contribute to their profits. And we'll lose this fight, too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. If this is all we get... people will stay home in 2010

and the wh will be gone in 2012.

I am sure you understand that.

Me... will once again read the fucking bill, since the details are in the 1200 pages that will come out of house and senate, not in a fifty minute speech... and if that is all we get... I will carry on the threat NOT to vote for either democrats or republicans. It is that simple at this point.

After all, nobody will take to the streets, or do anything else... that would be more noticeable such as strikes.

[girl gone mad]

94. There's a reason the plan doesn't kick in until after the 2012 election.

Congrats, you solved the puzzle.

[ipaint]

15. And you will be paying.

Rising costs, smaller and smaller subsidies, more and more unable to afford premiums with those shrinking subsidies. Your going to be paying out the nose. Increasing premiums and subsidies for most of the working class.

The comfortable middle class that's in this for a break on premium costs will rue the day they told the medicare for all folks to shut up and support the current plan.

[TransitJohn]

19. They don't see it.

It's like sports to some people. They just see what their guy is for, and they're for it, without thinking.

[sohndrsmith]

23. There is a big flaw in this argument: Yes, you are required to

have insurance if you drive (own, rather) a car.

People who do NOT own or drive a car are not mandated to carry/pay for insurance.

The mandatory coverage is predicated on whether one has a car or not. And having or not having a car is a choice (or a lack of funds/ability/etc.)
If you think it is reasonable to force people who never go near a car and can't drive - to pay for car insurance, I would have to pose the question - why?

health insurance is different, and the two are not equivalent.

[cushla_machree]

45. Yes thank you

I don't need to have car insurance if i don't own a car!

I ride a bike, i however, cannot opt out of my health!

[hollowdweller]

50. Yeah but everybody has a chance at getting sick

And if you get sick w/o insurance they STILL treat you and then either the gov't covers you or the medical community raises every body elses premiums to cover you.

[TransitJohn]

56. Or you pay your bill yourself

and go bankrupt.

[sohndrsmith]

64. the gov't covering you being... the public option, no? n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

26. You have to own a car to have car insurance

If it chaps your hide so damn bad to pay for things others use, why don't you move to Somalia?

[Hugabear]

27. Health care should be a fucking RIGHT. driving a car is not.

You don't get a bill in the mail whenever the police have to respond to your house for a burglary call. You don't get a bill from the fire department if they have to put out a fire in your house. We pay for those services through our taxes. Just like we should be doing with our health care.

[walldude]

34. I should be mandated to pay some bloodsucking leeches money so they

can profit off me at the worst times in my life? Good plan :eyes:

Oh and I have no insurance because my family has pre-existing conditions, and I can safely say that you haven't had to pay a single fucking dime for me or my family. I pay cash when my family needs to see a doctor. Including a $10,000 bill for a 3 hour emergency room visit because my wife had chest pains. So enough with your pathetic whining about how you are "paying for me".

[hfojvt]

49. that's not true at all, of course

I was uninsured from 1986 until 2004. I paid all of my own dental bills and also for my glasses. For healthcare during that time, my total expenses (other than OTC medications and things like calamine lotion for poison ivy) were less than $1000. My health insurance currently costs over $6700 (and my employer pays half). 18 years of health insurance from now would be over $120,000. The rest of us are only paying for the uninsured IF the uninsured have catastrophic medical expenses. Mandatory coverage for generally young and healthy people is just another way to force them to subsidize the medical bills of the older and less healthy. It would have forced me to pay $120,000 in costs and only get $1000 in benefits.

[amandabeech]

55. We older people were young once. We subsidized the older people then

and were told that we would be subsidized when we were older. This is back in the day when many more employers offered insurance and picked up the tab. Of course, the health insurance premium came out of our raises!

Now, more and more people have to get their own individual policies, and no one subsidizes anyone else. Those things are priced by age and the insurance company's statistical evaluation of your health history. I'm older and I had problems 10 years ago. Now, I can't even get a catastrophic policy for $600 a month. My state has a subsidized pool for those who have serious pre-existing conditions, but my problem isn't one that they cover in their subsidized program. I can't wait for the economy to pick up so that I'll have a better chance of getting a regular job with at least some sort of insurance.

[alarimer]

54. Mandated health insurance is simply a give away to evil blood-sucking corporations.

Insurance companies add nothing of value

[dflprincess]

57. Apples and oranges

you don't have to own a car.

Being mandated to have health insurance would be a whole nothing deal if we had a single payer system. Being forced to buy it from the crooks that have been cheating us for years, with no guarantee that you'll actually have access to care (depending on out of pockets) is crap.

It became clear tonight who Obama is working for and it isn't us.

[Kali]

78. oh for fuck's sake

get real

[girl gone mad]

88. So we all have to make insurance company executives and shareholders..

really wealthy because some of us might have to get expensive treatment in a hospital before we are eligible for Medicare?

Makes perfect sense. :eyes:

[Laelth]

7. Hear, hear! I want health care. I do not want to be forced to buy insurance. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[GCP]

10. How would it be paid for?

Are you prepared to take a payroll deduction like in The UK - it's not free.

[TransitJohn]

13. Every single-payer advocate is willing to pay taxes.

What is so hard to understand there? Quit being obtuse.

[GCP]

22. Thank you for your politeness [/sarcasm]

I've got dual UK-US citizenship, when I hear someone say "I don't fucking want health insurance" - it kind of rubs me up the wrong way because it sounds like the stupid crap freepers come out with.

Forgive me for my obtuseness. :sarcasm:

[izquierdista]

48. Insurance is for losers

Fuck, fuck, fuck insurance and their goddamn recissions, waivers, pre-existing conditions, co-pays, and deductibles. Fuck their 30% administrative overhead and fuck their preapprovals. Fuck their profits, fuck their advertising and fuck their executive salaries.

Just make everyone eligible for Medicare when they are old enough to get a Social Security number and be done with it.

[cushla_machree]

44. Im already paying for medicare

Might as well get some use out of it.

[Lars39]

14. But it's a hell of a lot less than what we pay here.

[Raineyb]

17. Yes I am prepared to take a payroll deduction like in the UK

They already take SS and Medicare out of a check and at the rate things are going we'll be lucky to live long enough to go on Medicare. Unless of course that's the plan all along. Screw people under 65 without health care in the hopes that they'll drop dead before they're eligible for Medicare.

[abumbyanyothername]

20. They are saying yes they are willing to pay for it.

Jesus -- what is so hard to understand. We want to give our money to the government to administer a plan whose goal is health. We do not want to give our money to insurance companies to administer a plan whose goal is profit.

Got it?

By the way, next up . . . food.

[kiva]

25. Do you really think that single-payer supporters don't get that?

This sounds more like a conservative attack...'Those liberals all think they should get free health care!' We get it, I promise.

[tomp]

86. obama made a public statement some months ago...

...that as a nation, u.s. citizens ALREADY pay enough money to guarantee health care for all. the money is there, in the system already, it's merely a matter of reallocation and equal distribution of costs and benefits. he's talking out of both sides of his mouth and fooling a lot of people. wilson was right, he's lying.

[Laelth]

95. Either a payroll tax deduction or a progressive income tax increase.

Or an increase in the top marginal income tax rates, returning them to Reagan-era levels. Any of that would do.

I am a small business owner. I am not on my company's payroll, so a payroll tax would have no effect on me.

But, obviously, universal health care will have to be paid for by someone, somehow.

I'd prefer that it be done fairly and progressively (as opposed to a mandate that falls squarely on the backs of the struggling middle-class and that enriches the insurance industry).

:dem:

-Laelth

[pleah]

9. K&R

[Maru Kitteh]

12. I don't want to pay for your ass on the back end either.

[TransitJohn]

16. Nice talking point.

I doubt you ever pay one single dime out of your pocket towards my health care. Way to stick up for Republican ideology, though. Real compassionate and Democratic of you. Single payer advocates want real social insurance that leaves no one behind.

[Maru Kitteh]

36. Facts don't have politics.

From a sore throat to a level 3 trauma victim, those presenting in the ER without insurance (trauma victim) - and those there because the patient has no means or access or simply chooses not to participate in the healthcare system (sore throat) incur costs exponential to the insured. This is not up for debate. It's a fact.

Who do you think pays for that?

[TransitJohn]

43. I've been to the ER once in my life.

I didn't have insurance. Nobody paid but me. You were saying?

[Maru Kitteh]

51. That's great. What about the bus that might hit you tomorrow? Or the CVA waithing to happen in

your brain?

Who, do you think, is going to pay for that?

[TransitJohn]

60. Me.

Duh. The "insurance" I'm extorted for now would cover 60%, up to the first $20k, then I'd be on my own. The plan the President just laid out doesn't change any of this. You're arguing with me why?

[Maru Kitteh]

65. Nice try for change of subject but FAIL.

You could not possibly pay for all the complications and treatments of a major CVA (which can and often does happen to all ages of individuals regardless of lifestyle) out of your own pocket unless you are Bill Gates or some other extremely rich fucking bastard.

Same goes for a major trauma incident.

[TransitJohn]

68. Haven't you been listening?

What do you think causes over half of all bankruptcies in this country? Health costs to people WITH INSURANCE. I can't for the life of me understand why people think that forcing more people to pour their hard earned cash into corporate profits is gonna save anyone anything. It's retarded.

[Maru Kitteh]

72. Again with the change of subject. Get back to me when you can focus.

[laughingliberal]

74. I am sure I heard him say there could be no caps on coverage n/t

[tammywammy]

81. Yes, he said no caps on coverage. n/t

[kas125]

82. What are you talking about? I have no insurance. If I go to the

emergency room, I will be forced to apply to a LOAN company to pay my bill. The signs are right there on the check in desk saying if you don't have insurance, we'll help you apply for a loan. They do not give people free health care in the emergency room so I don't go even if I need to. I keep hearing about how everyone pays for the care of the uninsured, but that doesn't happen here. Here, if you go to the hospital, they send you a bill and expect you to pay it, whether you have insurance or you don't.

[rwheeler31]

24. Stay healthy until you are 65, that is all.

[sinkingfeeling]

28. And I don't want to work for a living. I want somebody else to be taxed to pay for my lifestyle . I

don't want to pay for homeowners' insurance, but somebody should pay me about $500,000 should it burn down or get blown away. I don't want to pay $1200 a year for car insurance, but if I do get in an accident, I want somebody else to fix my car and pay for all medical claims. I don't want to pay for life insurance, but should I die, I want you to provide for my family for the next 40 years.

[Lilith Velkor]

35. Run for Congress then.

It shouldn't be too hard to find a nice red district that will buy the Republican horseshit you're peddling.

[sinkingfeeling]

37. ust stating my desires like all the rest of you who won't support the President.

[Lilith Velkor]

59. No, you are "ust" making shit up like all the rest of the Republicans do.

Go for it.

[TransitJohn]

42. He could probably

take Lummis' seat here in Wyoming. :crazy:

[Raineyb]

52. If you think fixing a car is on par with fixing one's body there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with

you.

[sohndrsmith]

79. it's not (and I believe access to affordable, reasonable health care is a right)

BUT:

My problem with the car insurance analogy is that:

Owning a car (thus - car insurance) is a choice - or option - afforded to all, but for some is not an option. Should my 96 year old grandfather be required to have and pay for car insurance when he is in a nursing home and can't remember his name? No.

Having car insurance is predicated on owning a car. Owning or not owning a car is a choice - available to all qualified citizens (certain age, passing certain tests, etc.). There are many people who, for whatever reason, cannot have or operate a car - and they do not pay car insurance.

I have state funded health insurance that is extremely limited - but it's something. I did not have to pay for it, I had to qualify for it. Those who qualify for this assistance qualify ONLY because they cannot afford anything else. It would be asinine to expect the people who qualify for state assistance because they are so far below the poverty level to now pay for health coverage.... surely no one would miss the discrepancy (lunacy) in such an argument.

If I am mandated to pay X amount of dollars to have the insurance I currently now have - I won't be able to do it. It's not because I don't "want" to do it, I just _ won't _ be _ able _ to _ do _ it. What happens then? I lose my health care (that is by all measures, not great, but better than nothing)?

Mandatory fee-based insurance doesn't make sense to me - for the very few of us who fall through the cracks and cannot ante up for anything. The fact that we have state provided health insurance is SO MUCH cheaper than our having no health care. Does anyone (including me) want me to have to go to urgent care clinics and emergency rooms because I have no health care? NO. The fact that I have minimal (and it IS VERY minimal) health care paid for by the state (I am not on Medicaid or Medicare - or any financial assistance whatsoever. I just needed health insurance) is hardly a burden compared to the costs of illnesses and ED visits, untreated, chronic illnesses that end up requiring massively expensive long term treatment.

Someone - anyone - is really having a problem with a state/gov't provided health insurance program? Really?

My question to those who do is: what do proffer as a better idea? I'd LOVE to know...

[debbierlus]

29. I can't believe how many people are hailing this insurance wet dream as a victory

Mandated private government insurance of a suck ass product.

Cutting medicare & medicaid to subsidize it.

I thought this was DEMOCRATIC underground.

[sinkingfeeling]

31. Apparently you either didn't listen to the speech or choose to ignore it.

[TransitJohn]

33. He or she heard the speech just fine.

No public option + Individual mandate required = :wtf: Mr. President.

[TransitJohn]

32. They don't see it.

They really don't. They just want their guy to always come out the winner. I'm sorry everyone, but tonight the President sold out the American people to preserve the corporations. It's obvious.

[sinkingfeeling]

38. Please then find another place to post. Obama didn't sell out anybody.

[girl gone mad]

92. I don't think it's up to you..

to tell someone whether or not they can post here.

[jtrockville]

41. You got it, TransitJohn.

As long as the insurance industry benefits big-time, it's full speed ahead.

[hollowdweller]

58. La La Land

I'm all for socialized single payer gov't sponsored health care.

But seriously if Obama is having trouble getting enough votes just to get a public option what chance does he have of passing something as ambitous as that??

To me it seems like it would be better to start somewhere rather than go back to square one when single payer bill gets canned?

I mean some people are sick right now. They can't wait another 20 years for single payer to gain support.

[Mari333]

30. and Obama was for single payer once

http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-in-03-id-like-to-see-a-single-payer-health-care-plan/

end those 2 fricking occupations and we could pay for everyone in the USA to have health care

[LynneSin]

39. That's easy to say when you're healthy as a horse

but at the turn of a dime something very serious could happen to you and someone is going to pay that bill.

[TransitJohn]

46. Right.

And that's why we need a real system that everybody pays into and is NOT-FOR-PROFIT. I think it's called single-payer social insurance.

[LynneSin]

80. As much as I would like single payer I can't see it happening

but as long as there are affordable options I'll be fine with that.

[ProSense]

40. Then become uninsured. Your choice. n/t

[girl gone mad]

89. And for the ones who can't afford that choice?

What then? Go into foreclosure, sell the car, raid the kids' college fund to pay fines?

[lonestarnot]

61. And I don't want to pay for your shit when you run to the ER after you're hit by a bus.

[TransitJohn]

63. Thank you Ayn Rand.

Spoken like a true Right Libertarian. I wouldn't need your help by the way.

[lonestarnot]

66. So far from the right here, that you must be nuts.

The tripling of ripping off ins. premiums making those fuckers rich is due in part by uninsured er visits by uncovered folks w/o money for a doctor visit. Who do you think pays for that? Dee dee dee. And that's whether you need my fucking help or not. and who the fuck is Ann?

[TransitJohn]

67. You should quit drinking

I couldn't understand that post at all.

[lonestarnot]

69. I didn't figure that you would. Should have not wasted my breathkeys.

[Maru Kitteh]

70. Libertarians wouldn't support hospitals or insurance, genius.

but name-calling seems to be all you have.

[TransitJohn]

73. Fucking A they do.

They're great ways of generating profits. Besides, someone who espouses right wing ideology on the DU is worth of pillory.

[jonnyblitz]

75. why do all of you O-pologists sound like fucking republicans?

CREEPY. :puke:

[TransitJohn]

85. Because they look at this like a football game.

They want their guy to win. Politics is real people's lives.

[spanone]

71. you can't always get what you want.

jagger, richards

[TransitJohn]

76. And in this case you must get what you don't want.

n/t

[johnaries]

83. So, if you get sick should we take you to a Reading Room? nt

[girl gone mad]

91. No, by all means..

you should force us to pay for corporate retreats and executive yachts on the off chance that we might need care we can't afford before our Medicare kicks in. That way, if we ever do need expensive care, the insurance companies can find some way to screw us out of coverage and we'll be out multiples of thousands on the deal. It's really a brilliant plan.

[flaminbats]

90. unfortunately pain is an unavoidable burden of life..

but pain is absent from being dead.

What should we wish for..eternal life with some degree of pain and pleasure or eternal death with no pain and pleasure?

I would rather have free healthcare with no medical problems, free government with no taxes, and free money with no work.

but life and death come hand in hand, just as healthcare and tragedy often do.

Health insurance isn't fun to pay for, but it only becomes worse when it's unregulated and free to cherry-pick.