What wasn't clear was the part right after he said ,"Let me be clear".

[eomer]

However, I think I understand what he was saying and it is not the scary thing that many seem to have understood.

Here is the statement about the public option that is raising a stir:

Now, I have no interest in putting insurance companies out of business. They provide a legitimate service, and employ a lot of our friends and neighbors. I just want to hold them accountable. The insurance reforms that I've already mentioned would do just that. But an additional step we can take to keep insurance companies honest is by making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange. Let me be clear - it would only be an option for those who don't have insurance. No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5% of Americans would sign up.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/09/obama-health-care-speech_n_281265.html

Many seem to think that the President was calling for a new restriction on the public option that would not allow anyone to choose it unless they are currently uninsured. I don't believe that's what he meant. Look at the next paragraph:

Despite all this, the insurance companies and their allies don't like this idea. They argue that these private companies can't fairly compete with the government. And they'd be right if taxpayers were subsidizing this public insurance option. But they won't be. I have insisted that like any private insurance company, the public insurance option would have to be self-sufficient and rely on the premiums it collects. But by avoiding some of the overhead that gets eaten up at private companies by profits, excessive administrative costs and executive salaries, it could provide a good deal for consumers. It would also keep pressure on private insurers to keep their policies affordable and treat their customers better, the same way public colleges and universities provide additional choice and competition to students without in any way inhibiting a vibrant system of private colleges and universities.

Look at the part I bolded, the part where he says the public option would put pressure on private insurers. But the public option would only put pressure on private insurers if their current customers have the option of leaving them and moving to the public option.

So I submit that the President's words were not a declaration of a new restriction on the public option. Rather they were just an explanation of how to think about the existing public option provisions that are on the table, as in HR 3200. No one would be forced to take it but anyone would be free to move to it if they so choose. It would be offered in the exchange alongside all the other options, with no special restrictions.

That's how I read it.

[postulater]

1. I sure hope you're right!

That is the only way to hold insurance companies accountable for their crimes.

If the only people that can choose the public option then it is not really a 'public' option but just a dumping ground for the poor and the sick.

[Tansy_Gold]

2. A public option so structured is not likely to succeed

It would consist only of those who cannot afford other insurance, and it would have to be self-funding. That means the premiums would be high. This won't be subsidized by a tax credit or government funding. There won't be contributions by the public like Medicare from FICA taxes (which comes also from employers, whether they insure their employees or not).

So the pool of money going into the PO is going to have to be high enough to cover what it's going to have to pay out. Many of the people buying into it will have pre-existing conditions that will require immediate outlays from the pool. This is the high risk group, and we all know that high risks come with high costs.

"Competition" won't help this at all.

The thousands of people who worked for the auto companies were just shafted. Their pensions and their health care were tossed aside. They and their jobs didn't matter.

But for some fucking reason, the jobs of the paper pushers in the insurance industry are precious and need to be saved. That's bullshit.

That's Obama.



This is


Tansy Gold

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigwillq]

4. Why are you getting so snippy?

:shrug:

[democrat_patriot]

6. We're out of coffee here.

And I'm real tired of the Obama sucks crowd. I could get that on Morning Joe, FR or Fox.

Just sayin'

[bigwillq]

8. And I am tired

of the "you are not allowed to criticize the president crowd"
How progressive of us.

[Tansy_Gold]

7. I have a pretty darned thick skin, sir

but even so, I will just remind you and lurkers that the rules on DU do not permit name calling. You are free to feel that my criticisms of the president's "plan" are not to your liking, but you are not permitted to insinuate that I am a freeper.

For the record -- I am not a freeper. I do not have a freeper name. I have not, in fact, been to that site but once in my life, about seven years ago, and found it utterly incomprehensible.

But then, I find the failure of most people to use their critical thinking skills rather incomprehensible, too.



TG

[eomer]

5. I'm not sure where some of your assertions come from.

It would consist only of those who cannot afford other insurance

I don't believe there is any such constraint being proposed. Obama's statement that it is intended to put pressure on private insurers seems to indicate it would be available if you are unhappy with the private insurer for some other reason, such as poor service or rates that you consider too high, even if you could afford them.

Many of the people buying into it will have pre-existing conditions that will require immediate outlays from the pool. This is the high risk group, and we all know that high risks come with high costs.

The private options will also be required to accept people with pre-existing conditions, just like the public option. Is there some other reason you think people with pre-existing conditions would choose the public option over a private plan? If you were thinking they would be forced there by their pre-existing conditions then you are mistaken about this detail of the proposal.

[grantcart]

9. the public option has absolutely nothing to do with being able to afford or not afford HC

It will be listed in the exchange and people that do not have insurance will be able to buy it.


People who cannot afford HC insurance are free to buy any plan and will receive a subsidy.


Of course the public option is going to cost less so many people who need the subsidy also will likely choose the PO.

[eomer]

10. Yes, that's how I understand it too.

The public option would be offered in the exchange alongside all of the private options. Any person or any employer who is allowed to buy from the exchange would be free to choose either the public option or one of the private ones.

I haven't seen anything that contradicts this conclusion and Obama's assertion that the public option would put pressure on the private options clearly implies that people would be free to switch to it if they choose. Otherwise where's the pressure?

[Tansy_Gold]

11. Here

If You Don’t Have Insurance,
the President's Plan:

-Creates a new insurance marketplace — the Exchange — that allows people without insurance and small businesses to compare plans and buy insurance at competitive prices.

We already have this. You can go to your local State Farm agent and get health care coverage. You'll have a ridiculous deductible, your premiums will be sky high, but you can get it. And you can always compare plans. State Farm isn't alone; there are lots of insurance companies that will sell you a policy for a price. THIS IS NOTHING INNOVATIVE.

-Provides new tax credits to help people buy insurance.

Okay, so you find some insurance that you can almost sort of afford. You shell out the money for it and then you get a "credit" on what you owe on taxes. This is not a net gain. It may still be a huge net loss. Well, unless you're an insurance company that's collecting the premiums and stingily doling out the benefits.


-Provides small businesses tax credits and affordable options for covering employees.

Ditto the above on the tax credits. And where are the details on the "affordable options"? Oh, sorry, no details. Just feel-good rhetoric.

-Offers a public health insurance option to provide the uninsured and those who can’t find affordable coverage with a real choice.

This is not available to everyone. It doesn't sound like it's open to employers or those who already have insurance. If your employer offers insurance and your premium is higher than the PO, you're just SOL. "Real choice" -- now that's a phrase we haven't heard before :sarcasm: -- isn't defined. The PO is only available to those who can't find affordable coverage with a real choice. But who says the PO is gonna be affordable? It's basically gonna be self-funding. You really would be better off with a medical savings plan. At least then your contributions won't be going out to someone else. And yes, my fellow DUers, that is EXACTLY WHAT THE PUKES WANT. THIS PO IS WORSE THAN THE PUKES' IDEAS.


-Immediately offers new, low-cost coverage through a national “high risk” pool to protect people with preexisting conditions from financial ruin until the new Exchange is created.

And how will this "high risk" pool be funded? Low cost for high risk people? Spinning straw into gold anyone? Does Obama now think he's Rumpelstiltskin? And why can't all of us who aren't high risk get into this pool? Why not fund it with FICA taxes and make it open to everyone???



It's bullshit, which is not the same -- though close -- as saying Obama is bullshit. But there is NOTHING in this outline of what might eventually be proposed by Thanksgiving that really changes anything. In some respects it worse than the status quo. And it won't take effect until AT LEAST FOUR FREAKIN' YEARS, which could be stretched to five or six or ten when Congress gets around to compromising.

[grantcart]

12. you completely misunderstand the policies

1) The Health Exchange is nothing like going down to state farm.

It would be run along the same lines as the OPM health exchange for federal employees. Basically those plans have to meet certain preconditions to be listed in the health exchange.

2) There will be a subsidy for people who cannot afford it.

You can take that subsidy and purchase any of the plans in the health exchange, not just the public option.


Your other factual errors are too tedious to document.

[eomer]

13. No, wait.

The exchange is not the same as what we have now. The plans offered in the exchange will not be able to exclude anyone for pre-existing conditions and will not be able to base premiums for anyone on their health condition. It will also, according to my understanding, include a public option that is available to everyone that the private options are available to. That will pressure the private options to keep the premiums they charge at a level where they can compete with the public option. I understand there is some disagreement on this point -- what I'm stating here is based on my own interpretation of what the President meant. But we won't know for sure until we know for sure.

Regarding the McCain proposal that Obama threw in, the reason the cost can be low for high risk people is that it is only catastrophic coverage, not regular health coverage that covers day-to-day needs.