Colonel (US Army Reserves) Joe Wilson: Conduct Unbecoming an Officer.

[ShortnFiery]

This part of the UCMJ applies to all military officers, IN or OUT of uniform.

It's time to play hard ball with these treasonous representatives. As an Army Veteran, I'm ashamed for my fellow veterans and all people on active duty today.

We should seriously consider Courts Martial.

Joe Wilson isn't FIT to wear the Army Uniform. :grr:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm133.htm

“Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Elements.

(1) That the accused did or omitted to do certain acts; and

(2) That, under the circumstances, these acts or omissions constituted conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman.

Explanation.

(1) Gentleman. As used in this article, “gentleman” includes both male and female commissioned officers, cadets, and midshipmen.

(2) Nature of offense. Conduct violative of this article is action or behavior in an official capacity which, in dishonoring or disgracing the person as an officer, seriously compromises the officer’s character as a gentleman, or action or behavior in an unofficial or private capacity which, in dishonoring or disgracing the officer personally, seriously compromises the person’s standing as an officer. There are certain moral attributes common to the ideal officer and the perfect gentleman, a lack of which is indicated by acts of dishonesty, unfair dealing, indecency, indecorum, lawlessness, injustice, or cruelty. Not everyone is or can be expected to meet unrealistically high moral standards, but there is a limit of tolerance based on customs of the service and military necessity below which the personal standards of an officer, cadet, or midshipman cannot fall without seriously compromising the person’s standing as an officer, cadet, or midshipman or the person’s character as a gentleman. This article prohibits conduct by a commissioned officer, cadet or midshipman which, taking all the circumstances into consideration, is thus compromising. This article includes acts made punishable by any other article, provided these acts amount to conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. Thus, a commissioned officer who steals property violates both this article and Article 121. Whenever the offense charged is the same as a specific offense set forth in this Manual, the elements of proof are the same as those set forth in the paragraph which treats that specific offense, with the additional requirement that the act or omission constitutes conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman.

[kentuck]

1. Obama is his Commander in Chief??

That is a serious military matter. Court martial?

[ShortnFiery]

6. Yes, what Colonel Joe Wilson did was IMO, "Conduct Unbecoming" - fits to a tee.

He COMMANDS reserve Army troops who are periodically activated.

Col Wilson disgraced his rank and ALL SOLDIERS within the US Military by denouncing HIS Commander in Chief.

This was a serious breech that will DISRUPT "good order and discipline" within active duty military ranks.

No joke. I was aghast to learn that this abusive representative is AN OFFICER in the US Army Reserves.

At the very least, Joe Wilson should be forced into retirement. He should not ever LEAD troops again.

Given his open DISRESPECT to HIS Commander in Chief, he is NOT FIT to lead AD Soldiers. :thumbsdown:

[FLDCVADem]

8. Unless he was on active duty orders

The military can't touch him.

[ShortnFiery]

15. No, that doesn't apply to officers. He's insulted OUR Commander in Chief and it

disrupts the "good order and discipline" within the military ranks. Would you want to serve under him?

[FLDCVADem]

18. No, I wouldn't want to serve under him

But I served under lots of officers that I didn't want to serve under. What I wanted was irrelevant.

He did nothing that was punishable under the UCMJ unless he was under active duty orders.

[ShortnFiery]

33. He could be disciplined and suspended by senior officers, conduct unbecoming

applies to all situations when we're referring to military members within the officer corps.

[FLDCVADem]

39. Reservists are not subject to the UCMJ

when they are not on active duty.

[ShortnFiery]

43. As long as they are not separated from the military (discharged), "conduct unbecoming" applies

to the Officer Corps. At a minimum, his higher ups in his chain of command can have him "suspended" or force him to retire early.

[FLDCVADem]

50. You need to read the link I posted down thread

You're wrong.

[ShortnFiery]

52. I did, but I disagree.

You're behaving in an haughty manner. :eyes:

[FLDCVADem]

69. If you had read the link

You would know that he wasn't subject to the UCMJ last night, yet you insist that he was.

[ShortnFiery]

75. Jesus Christ, is being RIGHT the end-all for you ?!? I want him, at a minimum DISCIPLINED.

I don't care how as long as it's LEGAL and he no longer is able to influence young soldiers, i.e., suspended and/or forced out.

For the life of me, I can't fathom how a Reserve Army Officer, activated or not, can OPENLY show contempt for our Commander in Chief, yet continues to be entrusted to lead Army Soldiers.

It's just WRONG on so many level.

[MNDemNY]

32. Not so. He is a commissioned officer, in or out of uniform.

[FLDCVADem]

40. Reservists are not subject to the UCMJ

when they are not on active duty.

[SpiralHawk]

2. "Court martial the Family Values jerk. Smirk." - xCommander AWOL (R)

"Oh, wait, maybe that's a dumb strategery since he is a Republicon Homelander doing his best to make America fail by demonstrating his perverted Republicon Family Values. Like me. Smirk."

- xCommander AWOL (R)

[DrDan]

3. was he on orders?

this is a stretch . . .

I am a vet also - but do not share your outrage. He will be punished in the court of public opinion.

[ShortnFiery]

9. No, as "An officer" I was expected to behave with HIGHER moral standards, IN or OUT of uniform.

Joe Wilson disgraced the "Officer Corps."

No, far too many don't live up to it, i.e., throughout history. But in theory, (and according to the UCMJ) A LEADER is OBLIGATED to set the example for high moral conduct ... and this applies both in and out of uniform.

When you are commissioned as a regular or reserve Army Officer you're entrusted with the lives of both senior and junior enlisted within your command. You must conduct yourself above reproach IF you wish to have your subordinates respect and follow your directives.

[FLDCVADem]

11. You need to stop focusing

on in or out of uniform, which is irrelevant in this case, and focus on in active duty status or not in active duty status, which is relevant.

Rules that apply when in active duty status do not apply out of active duty status, so what he did, while rude and disrespectful, does not violate the UCMJ.

[ShortnFiery]

13. You need to focus on "An Officer." He can NOT now lead troops. eom

[FLDCVADem]

17. Bullshit

They may not respect him, and he may not lead them well, but he didn't do anything that under the UCMJ will legally prevent him from leading troops.

[DrDan]

21. that is a separate issue - you are calling for a court martial - which is not warranted

[ShortnFiery]

58. I'm calling for, at a minimum, suspension and forced separation.

I have a very difficult time believing that "unbecoming behavior of an officer" is off-limits once he sheds his reservist uniform. If that's what it boils down to, it's wrong. This man disgraces the Army Uniform.

[DrDan]

61. well - it is the case

"(3) Reservists and national guardsmen. Reservists are subject to the UCMJ
when performing six months' "active duty for training." They are also subject to
the UCMJ when performing annual 2-week training.
Under recent amendments to the UCMJ (effective 1 July 1988), they are also subject to UCMJ jurisdiction when
performing weekend training (inactive duty training).
This is covered in Article 2(a) 3, UCMJ. A reservist would also be subject to the UCMJ if he is otherwise on
active duty status."

http://www.tpub.com/content/armymilitarypolice/MP1018D/MP1018D0037.htm

[DrDan]

19. I was an officer also - both on active duty and in the reserves

disgracing the "officer corps" does not mean he committed a court martial offense.

[FLDCVADem]

4. In or out of uniform, yes

But this isn't an issue of in or out of uniform, but rather in active duty status or not in activite duty status. He is not in active duty status.

Reservists that are not in active duty status are not subject to all of the same rules and regulations as those that are in active duty status. If they were, he wouldn't be permitted to hold partisan elected office.

[DrDan]

5. exactly - as a former reservist/active-duty vet I agree

not a court martial offense

[ShortnFiery]

10. Officers have been tried and convicted, reserve or AD. He can't lead troops any more.

He has disrespected his "Commander in Chief."

Would you like to be under his command? Does it add to good order and discipline?

[FLDCVADem]

14. Give a single example of a reserve officer

that was tried and convicted in court martial for something he did while he was not in active duty status.

If he were subject to military law while not in active duty status, he wouldn't be able to hold his seat in Congress.

[ShortnFiery]

26. Here ya go.

These incidents occurred while these Army Reservist & Guard Officers WERE not, I say again - They were NOT activated.

When you are considering "an officer" (commissioned or warrant), unbecoming behavior applies both in and out of uniform and in or out of *activation."

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/justin_barrett_kills_two_jobs_with_one_stone/

Justin Barrett Kills Two Jobs with One Stone
James Joyner | Thursday, July 30, 2009

Justin Barrett, a 36-year-old soon-to-be-former Boston cop and Massachusetts Army National Guard captain, is making the headlines with a letter he circulated describing, a bit too enthusiastically, his views on a Boston Globe column on the Henry Louis Gates incident.

The National Guard has already suspended Barrett,

The Massachusetts National Guard does not and will not tolerate racially insensitive language.

The language contained in the e-mail violates policies of the Massachusetts National Guard and what it stands for in its commitment to uphold and protect the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the Constitution of the United States.

Capt. Justin Barrett’s actions and opinions are his own and do not reflect those of the Massachusetts National Guard. Capt. Barrett’s opinions are in complete violation of Army and National Guard Values and will not be tolerated.

---------------------------
and # 2

Excuse the nasty site, but I can't find the article elsewhere and the responses are "typical" right winger.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1933709/posts

State Sen. Ernie Chambers sent a letter to President Bush complaining about a Nebraska police officer and Army Reserve officer who allegedly left a noose hanging in the work area of a black woman, an Army Reserve sergeant under his command.

The behavior is conduct unbecoming an officer, Chambers said in the letter, providing details of the alleged mid-October incident and the victim’s response.

[FLDCVADem]

30. Invalid

The first case is National Guard, which is regulated by the state, unless activated by the President.

The second case is a state senator making an accusation, not a proof of any kind of action. Not to mention that the second example references the Army workplace, which certainly implies that he was on duty.

[ShortnFiery]

37. What part of "Commissioned Officer" of the discussion, in or out of uniform/activated , ...

can you not understand? :shrug:

To clarify AGAIN: Since Wilson has NOT been separated (DISCHARGED) from the military, his behavior *at all times* is expected to meet the higher standards required for those entrusted to positions within the officers' corps.

[FLDCVADem]

41. And what part of

UCMJ doesn't apply to reservists not on active duty do YOU not understand?

[ShortnFiery]

45. If a Officer reservist "robs a bank" and is convicted, what makes you think that his superior will

not, at a minimum, find a LEGAL way (UCMJ) to DISCHARGE him from service?

[dgibby]

74. I share your passion and outrage,

but as a retired Navy officer, I have to say you are wrong in this case, much as I wish you weren't.

I find his actions last night offensive on many levels, as a citizen of SC, retired military, and as a citizen of the US, but the UCMJ is what it is, no matter what we wish it would be.

[ShortnFiery]

78. Thank-you. That was the most thoughtful dressing-down and I appreciate it.

My other adversaries are focusing on how WRONG I am about the UCMJ but fail to not my abject disgust that he'll probably get away with it.

I was hoping that we could brainstorm how we could somehow encourage his superiors to force his resignation. I guess that is the only tenable solution?

[DrDan]

16. whether I want to be under his command is not the point

he cannot be court martialed

if his troops are all reich-wingers, he will be as effective as ever.

[FLDCVADem]

20. I made the same point up thread

Who I wanted to serve under was irrelevant. (20 years AF).

[DrDan]

23. exactly - 20 yrs U.S.A.F. - both active and reserves

this poster just does not want to listen to facts - as blinded by partisanship Wilson

[ShortnFiery]

27. Did you serve in the Officer Corps? And gee, you were in the Air Force?

Ooops! Inter-service rivalry, sorry. :blush:

[DrDan]

28. I certainly did

UCMJ applies to both

[ShortnFiery]

34. Well DrDan, I believe that many of us veterans from the Army and Marine Corps

(my husband is a retired Marine Officer) view "unbecoming behavior" of our officers a little more strictly than some of you good folks in the Air Force? ;) :tease:

At the very least, he should be forced into retirement because his behavior is counter to maintaining good order and discipline within the unit under his command. :shrug:

[DrDan]

47. seems as though I remember a navy incident . . . .tail hook?

where less than "becoming" behavior was evident.

Guess we all have our crosses to bear. I am not as proud of hte A.F. as I have been in the past.

But - I am more concerned with military leaders who support torture and promote "results at any cost" than I am with some clown who cannot control his emotions. Joe Wilson is a tool of the GOP. He should be ignored.

[ShortnFiery]

49. He should be FORCED to retire. eom

[DrDan]

51. on what grounds? His behavior was while NOT on orders for active duty

[DrDan]

56. no grounds

[ShortnFiery]

59. Of course there's grounds, he insulted his "Commander in Chief" and can no longer

lead soldiers within our US Army.

Wow, you astound me. Once you shed the uniform, you're still an Army Officer until you are DISCHARGED.

I don't get you but if you are correct, IMO, it's morally reprehensible. This man should not lead troops. :thumbsdown:

[DrDan]

62. you are wrong - sorry - rules are different for reserves vs active duty

check post 61

[ShortnFiery]

42. "Conduct unbecoming an officer" - UCMJ applies to OFFICERS ONLY (enlisted and warrant). eom

[DrDan]

53. his behavior does not apply - not on active duty eom

[ShortnFiery]

68. There are ways that Joe Wilson still can be disciplined: Fitness Report could force him out.

And yes your's is definitely bigger than mine. :eyes:

[ShortnFiery]

12. You forget - Joe wilson is "an officer." When you're commissioned, your private life is

also under the microscope. You are responsible for your conduct *at all times* when it comes to disgracing the military and/or the officers' corps.

[FLDCVADem]

22. It's different for reservists

They are not subject to the UCMJ unless they are under orders.

You can keep repeating the same crap over and over, but it doesn't change facts.

[HillWilliam]

77. In or out of uniform if anyone SUSPECTED he had sucked one d*ck

they'd sure court martial his ass. Almost 400 people have been thrown out of the military since President Obama took office for being gay or being suspected of being gay.

Nice how we can have loyal, patriotic, decorated officers thrown out for being gay (whether or not they're in uniform and whether or not they're active, reserve, or not) -- but an officer and elected official can embarrass the POTUS who is also his commander-in-chief on national TV and it's not a court-martial offense. How is Wilson's action last night NOT breaking discipline on multiple levels.

:wtf: is wrong with this picture? I'll say it: pure hypocrisy.

IOKIYAR, period.

[strategery blunder]

7. Isn't there something in UCMJ about "contemptious words toward the President" too?

I seem to remember reading that around here, as other DUers pointed it out in reference to the birthers trying to wriggle out of their commitments by saying that President Obama is not a "legitimate: CoC. :eyes:

To me, it seems like the article about indecorum you quoted isn't the only reason why Joe Wilson isn't fit to be an officer.

[FLDCVADem]

24. When active duty or on active duty orders

Yes. When a reservist not on active duty orders, no.

[ShortnFiery]

29. Bullshit! An Army Captain (not activated) was SUSPENDED for posting a racist email. An officer ...

is under scrutiny both IN and OUT of uniform and/or activation status.

[FLDCVADem]

31. Invalid

Read up thread - National Guard, not reservist.

[ShortnFiery]

36. Not INVALID: applies to the military OFFICER CORPS (AD, Reserve or NG). It's pertinent and apt.

[FLDCVADem]

44. Please read this link

so that you won't continue to make incorrect statements.

http://www.tpub.com/content/advancement/12018/css/12018_65.htm

from the link:

A reservist ordered into the active military service is subject to the UCMJ beginning on the date specified in the orders for the reservist to report for active duty.

Unless he was in active duty status, he was not subject to the UCMJ when he made the statement.

[ShortnFiery]

46. OFFICER is the key word. Enlisted are not charged with "conduct unbecoming and officer"

That poor conduct, in or out of uniform, is subject to the UCMJ as long as the OFFICER is Commissioned.

*Non-commissioned Officers (E-5) can be charged with "conduct unbecoming" also albeit the standards may vary.

[FLDCVADem]

54. And you obviously didn't read the link

It has nothing to do with officer or enlisted, it has to do with active duty status. He wasn't on it, so he can't be court martialed.

[ShortnFiery]

60. He still can be DISCIPLINED. Instead of trying to score points, admit that his superiors

should be empowered to suspend and/or force his early retirement?

[FLDCVADem]

63. Not trying to score points, trying to inform the ignorant

But you obviously aren't interested in truth, so go ahead and keep believing and misinforming on this issue.

[ShortnFiery]

67. Thanks for the personal insult. I'm talking about discipline, like what Rumsfeld

did to many good General Officers inappropriately.

Joe Wilson needs to be forced to retire in order to maintain the good order and discipline within the Army junior ranks.

[FLDCVADem]

70. Then I suggest you contact your Congressman

and ask that the UCMJ be amended.

[ShortnFiery]

72. You're hilarious.

:eyes:

[Joey Liberal]

25. No wonder we cant win a war. Wilson is a fool. nt

[margotb822]

35. Start with Article 88: Contempt

ARTICLE 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

[FLDCVADem]

57. Doesn't apply because he wasn't on active duty orders n/t

[ddeclue]

38. Except that the Constitution protects Congressmen in what they say on the floor.

The only avenue of punishment is that the House sets its own rules and can punish its own members.

He is NOT going to be courts martialed and he can't be.

He CAN be censured by the House and probably will be.

He HAS been punished in the court of public opinion and in the fundraising game.

He WILL get punished with this at re-election time in TV ads.

Doug D.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

48. Bingo. House floor trumps all.

[strategery blunder]

76. Forgot about that.

I should have known better. I forgot that he has full immunity (at least as far as outside the Congress is concerned) for speech on the floor.

Of course I hope Rahm Emmanuel has lots of fun playing with his new meat toy.

[shotten99]

55. Push this one- This is where he could really be held accountable

Under normal circumstances, this would ruin his career. Fuck him.

[ShortnFiery]

65. Joe Wilson is not fit to lead Army Soldiers. If there's any justice he will be forced

to retire. Many GOOD General Officers were forced to retire for unsound reasons under Rumsfeld's/Bush's iron rule, at least we encourage this man out of any further active duty service.

It's not fair to the troops under his command and is a poor example of how ANY Commissioned Army Officer should behave toward their Commander in Chief ... activated or not, it's vile behavior that is a detriment to continued good order and discipline within the ranks.

If Joe Wilson is allowed to continue leading troops, there will be more outbursts against our President. Why not? A reservist Army Colonel says "you lie" then why can't Private Snuffy voice the same contempt?

[madville]

64. If you're not on orders, you're not subject to the UCMJ

A reservist is only subject to the UCMJ during IDT drills or when they are on active duty.

[ShortnFiery]

66. Then FORCE him to retire like Rummy did to many of our HONEST General Officers

in the Pentagon during the build up to the Iraq invasion?

[FLDCVADem]

71. You can't force anyone to retire n/t

[ShortnFiery]

73. Gee, I remember many Field Grade & General Officers in the Pentagon offering up their resignations

and retiring early during 2001 and early 2002.

I guess they all just wanted to "spend more time with the family." :eyes:

You're hopeless. You want to nail me on the specifics of the UCMJ, instead of help me TROUBLE-SHOOT how we can get this guy to retire and no longer influence young troops.

Bravo, you won the arguments but completely missed the objective.

[Crabby Appleton]

79. Reservists not on active duty or in military training not subject to UCMJ

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/usc_sec_10_00000802----000-.html

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART II > CHAPTER 47 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 802

§ 802. Art. 2. Persons subject to this chapter

(a) The following persons are subject to this chapter:
(1) Members of a regular component of the armed forces, including those awaiting discharge after expiration of their terms of enlistment; volunteers from the time of their muster or acceptance into the armed forces; inductees from the time of their actual induction into the armed forces; and other persons lawfully called or ordered into, or to duty in or for training in, the armed forces, from the dates when they are required by the terms of the call or order to obey it.
(2) Cadets, aviation cadets, and midshipmen.
(3) Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal service.
(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.
(5) Retired members of a reserve component who are receiving hospitalization from an armed force.


....snip

[ShortnFiery]

80. How many mea culpas do you folks need? I GOT IT! :-)

:shrug:

However, I feel abject disgust that this horrible man will be permitted to lead Soldiers in the future.

Wilson's behavior does set a poor example and will covertly encourage subordinate soldiers to freely criticize the POTUS.

UCMJ covered or not, IMO, Wilson's behavior is detrimental to the continued good order and discipline within his Army Unit, and perhaps, the military in general.

[BR_Parkway]

81. Call his ass up to active duty and ship him to Iraq