Democrats say "Goodbye" to the YOUTH demographic.

[bvar22]

The Young & Invulnerable, especially those just Starting Out or still shopping around for a Career are a large part of those who choose to skip Health Insurance.
I was young and indestructible once.
Health Insurance was a low priority for me.
Truth is, The Young are the healthiest segment of our society, and the least in need of Health Insurance.

They are NOT going to be happy when they open their Health Care Package and find a BIG bill from the For Profit Health Insurance Industry.
They WILL blame the Democrats.
Rightly so.

On Edit:
This may the chief reason Obama/Democrats have delayed implementation until AFTER the 2012 elections.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Ok here is a clue

YOU WANT UNIVERSAL COVERAGE, YOU NEED UNIVERSAL PARTICIPATION

If the youth, or Americans in general do NOT get this... forget any reform

[bvar22]

2. Oh, I agree with that.

..but will The Youth who will be forced to buy Health Insurance?

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Everybody will, not just the youth

and I will say it again, if the youth don't get why... so be it.

Americans want something for nothing... that is my conclusion over the last few months.

[inna]

79. the solution is Universal Health Care funded by progressive taxation,

and not this monstrosity of an "insurance reform" currently floated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. As much as I agree wiht you, it WON'T happen in this country

not at all.

For that to happen we need so many systemic and cultural changes it is not even funny

[inna]

103. it WILL happen, sooner or later, but possibly not in our lifetime.

i'm convinced that it'll happen at some point because that's the way it works in the rest of the industrialized world, with the US being the only exception.

at this point, i'm starting to wonder if this insurance reform is actually a step backwards, because it's a token gesture that only distracts and fools the people and only delays (possibly by dozens of years) the inevitable - the Universal Health Care, which is something that the rest of civilized world is simply taking for granted.


what we're getting instead of Universal Health Care is universal, government-mandated RACKET by the insurance companies that hits those in most need in the worst way.

[Fire1]

121. It's as close to universal as you're going to get in a a

capitalist country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. I'll argue the capitalist part

but then again the US is as close to the vision of Adam Smith, as The USSR was to Marx's.

[inna]

136. ALL developed capitalist countries except the US have universal health care.

it's a pure fact, so your statement that "It's as close to universal as you're going to get in a a capitalist country" doesn't make sense (to me, at least).

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. No, it does not work this way in the rest of the world

Canada and the UK have Single payer, Germany has a highly regulated private system. This is what we are moving towards.

And the latter one will happen in our life time... at least when I am old and gray... this is just the foot in the door

[Fire1]

120. BINGO!!!! n/t

[TxRider]

88. Very true, but you can't just fire 2.5 million insurance industry jobs.

Or kill off these business wholesale in one fell swoop.

[Juche]

151. Progress sometimes leads to massive job loss

The industrial revolution resulted in about 75% of people who work in factories being let go. The auto killed the horse and buggy industry. The DVD killed the VHS industry.

Implementing single payer would save about $400 billion a year, which is more than enough to not only cover everyone, but pay for job retraining for those 2.5 million people.

[bvar22]

110. I'm not arguing Right vs Wrong.

I'm merely pointing out that many people, especially the Young & Indestructible are going to be pissed when The Democrats FORCE them to write out a check every month to the For Profit Health Insurance Industry.

Do you want to disagree with this point?

[dflprincess]

137. And write a check for product that may still not give them access to health care

Youth, particularily young males, are most apt to need health care after an accident. What a shock it will be when they go into emergency with a broken leg set and find out that, after paying all those premiums, they still have to cough up a few thousand dollars for the deductible.

[TxRider]

87. This is kinda like taxing the rich

The young have plenty of health, just like the rich have plenty of money. So pitch in to pay for the health care of everyone else who needs health insurance...

But they won't like it. even if they did vote for it. Kids are that way in not realizing the consequences of their actions until the bill comes due.

[Igel]

127. Yes.

It functions precisely like a tax would, except that it doesn't go through the US Treasury and is administered privately. In fact, arguments have been advanced that such a mandatory system is constitutional precisely because the government has taxing authority.

I was such a kid once, and I wasn't stupid. My car insurance had the medical coverage cranked, and if I did anything high risk (skiing, for example) I had day insurance. The prices were harsh, given the limited time, but far, far less than I'd have paid by having health insurance. Now, if I'd developed cancer, cataracts, heart disease, or any number of serious conditions, I'd have been screwed; on the other hand, the stats were on my side, most of those conditions develop later in life.

[GreenArrow]

32. then make it a tax

not some bloated sop to big insurance.

[Dr_Willie_Feelgood]

33. As long as my participation doesn't require more than about...

...$50 a month.

Any more than that...I am screwed!

Then again, I make less than 12K a year, so I am already screwed. But having to pay hundreds a month...I will be homeless. Then I cannot keep my job. Then I have EVEN LESS money for premiums, and I will be sick from living out-of-doors or in a shelter.

This "Universal Coverage" BETTER be affordable, otherwise millions of us would be better off dead!

[Scarsdale Vibe]

65. Make less than 12k a year? You will be fully subsidized.

Medicaid is also being expanded in every version of the bill so far.

[TxRider]

104. Subsidized how? tax credits?

[Maru Kitteh]

106. Pre-bates. Those that poor will never have to put a dime on the table for premiums.

[TxRider]

111. It'll have to be...

I don't think young and working poor will like having to pay out all year to get it back april 15th.

[Maru Kitteh]

100. Your participation will be free with that income. Good news for you I'd say.

[Dr_Willie_Feelgood]

129. Good news would be...

...if I made enough to support myself and buy insurance without a subsidy.

As a 47 y/o overweight computer geek living in Metro Detroit, that doesn't seem too likely. The closest I can get back to the industry is to drive around the H1Bs.

[rockymountaindem]

38. Yes. Anybody could, God forbid, get in an accident

I'm 22 and for universal coverage, but I shouldn't be forced to purchase from a private plan, subsidized or otherwise. That's why I hope Wyden's amendment to get rid of the "firewall" passes, which it probably won't. However, if we're going to subsidize individuals up to, what was it, something over 50k? I doubt many people my age just starting out will notice and these dire predictions about young voters won't materialize. As a whole we are much more liberal than the general population, and I don't see this hurting Democrats' prospects with my generation.

[bvar22]

112. You will still be FORCED to join "The Exchange",

ans "shop" for your Health Insurance, and send off a check for your coverage, even IF you are "fully" subsidized.

This will not apply if you are eligible for Medicade, which is a "stigmatized" 2nd Class system with poor Provider participation.

[branders seine]

49. single payer provides both in a palatable

affordable, sustainable way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. And as much as I'd rather prefer that

it will not happen at this time in the US.

That is the true political reality

Now you want to have national strikes to fight for it? Count me in

[branders seine]

109. it's really the only alternative to a runaway, unfettered capitalist orgy

the various plans are all grotesquely complex, full of holes, and riddled with ambiguities that the gullible can interpret however they wish. In short, they won't work.

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. Look carefully at how coverage

is done in Germany, the Netherlands and Switzerland. This is exactly what we are moving towards. It is private and it is highly regulated... now we are not there yet, but mark my words, this is what we will get when all is said and done as this is strengthened over the years. Remember Medicare didn't go nearly far enough in 1965 and neither did Social Security in 1935.

As I said, my preference would be a single payer system, but in the US that will never ever happen, and the reasons are complex, including the general culture... and the pride in the ignorance that is damn pervasive

[branders seine]

146. as usual, we will utterly fail on the "regulated" part,

which will result in the aforementioned orgy

[Juche]

153. I disagree on both points

I don't think we can regulate industry in this country after 30 years of movement conservatism and reaganomics. Look at the banking industry, because we regulated them so poorly they destroyed the economy and cost us 7 million jobs. And then they got regulations which some thinkers like Krugman called weak.

So 'regulating' the industry is iffy to me, because I have seen how much power this government is willing to use when regulating powerful, wealthy corporations.


As far as single payer, there are movements in several states to get it. California passed it through the legislature twice but governor Schwarzenegger vetoed it. Illinois has gotten a single payer bill out of committee and has a 60/40 advantage in the state legislature as well as a dem governor. California would save about $344 billion over 10 years due to single payer, and Illinois would save $17 billion a year.

With health care costs spiraling and the economy in shock, I think states will be forced to enact single payer over the next decade. I don't think it has a chance on the federal level within the next 10 years, but on the state level it sounds feasable.

[Sebastian Doyle]

67. So just fucking expand Medicare already

Cover everyone, fine. But without rewarding the criminals who created the problem.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. There is what I want to happen

and what is politically possible...

Though I'd rather expand medicare to all (and for the record it did suck in 1965)... in the reality that is our politics that will NOT happen right now.

[Fading Captain]

Fuck that. Universal Coverage means GOVERNMENT/TaxFunded

Don't you dare call this fucking plan "Universal" coverage.

[T Wolf]

3. An old joke is appropo - Are the Dems ignorant or apathetic about the consequences of their

policies?

They don't know and they don't care.

They only know how to do the bidding of the corps that own them.

Or, in deference to corporate personhood, should that be the corps who own them?

[WeDidIt]

4. Much of the young and invulnerable

will be in the group who get help paying for their insurance due to lower income levels.

[bvar22]

9. They still won't LIKE it.

I'm still a few years away from Medicare,
AND I will be able to qualify for a subsidy.

I STILL don't like HR 3200 (the bill Obama referenced last night).
It enshrines and legitimizes the For Profit Health Care Industry, and forces over 40 Million new customers on to their to their rolls.

[tnlefty]

26. Do you have a formula to determine eligibility for a subsidy?

I've been curious about that.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

138. What part won't they like? The free, subsidized health insurance part? Yeah, they'll hate it.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean everyone doesn't. I say they'll love it. We're cancelled out now.

[Spazito]

5. So I guess 'youth' don't get in car accidents, don't develop diabetes....

break bones, develop pneumonia, etc.

Your post is naive and misleading. The only difference between the 'youth' and others is fewer develop chronic health problems during their 'youthful' phase.

[bvar22]

13. Didn't say that.

I said they won't like being forced to buy something they think they don't need.

[Spazito]

20. Really? And you know that how?

Speculation? Proof?

I have seen 'youth' express the opposite. They want insurance but under the present conditions can NOT afford it.

[bvar22]

41. Speculation.....

...and a pretty thorough researching of HR 3200, the plan Obama referenced last night.
In fact, the MAJORITY of Americans who support a REAL "Public Option" are going to be very disappointed when they open their new Health Care Package and find a BIG Bill from the For Profit Health Insurance Industry.

Excellent reason for delaying the implementation until AFTER the 2012 election.

[Spazito]

56. Ahhh, so you really don't know what you are talking about re the 'youth'..

and simply used them to try and sow further division because you:

Don't like the President
Don't support any of the reforms being put forward by the President
Want the perfect (your version of perfect) otherwise want the status quo.

You do a dis-service to the youth in using them in such a self-serving way, imo.

[bvar22]

113. Now THAT is "wild", unfounded speculation.

N/T

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

139. Bingo.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

96. Pretty good stories on this very subject on NPR.

They interviewed lots of young people in New York. The majority said they would rather have money to party on and go out to eat on than spend money on health insurance. It was interesting.

[bvar22]

114. Thanks.

I didn't hear the broadcast.

I just remember what it was like to be Young & Indestructible.
I was On the Barricades over the VietNam War.

I KNOW what would have happened if "The Government" tried to FORCE us to BUY Health Insurance from a For Profit Corporation.

[Spike from MN]

149. Not only that but they will be REALLY pissed when they discover that

the health insurance they are forced to buy sucks and that the insurance company will dump them if/when they are diagnosed with a health problem that would cut into corporate profits.

[Spazito]

144. Do you have a link? Was it a poll or simply a 'walk around and ask"'kind of survey?

Anecdotal does not equate to factual data in any way ergo your post without factual links adds little to the debate, imo.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

158. Just walk around and interview people.

They presented both sides.

[Gormy Cuss]

31. Uh, no. It's not that they don't have health care needs, it's that they are in general healthier

than older age groups and some do forgo health insurance if they can't afford it under the assumption that they can get by without it.


http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/05/uninsured-cps/index.htm#age

from above link:

Young adults age 18-34 are disproportionately uninsured relative to their representation in the overall population (figure 3)

Based on data from the 2001 February Supplement to the CPS matched with the 2001 March Supplement to the CPS, 18 million workers were not offered coverage and another 6 million were not eligible for coverage that their firm offered, representing 54% of the uninsured.(9) In addition, there are 6.9 million workers and dependents that have declined employer coverage and remain uninsured (19% of the uninsured).(10) These individuals are most likely to decline employer coverage because it was too costly: 3.8 million, or 52% said coverage was too expensive. The February-March match file shows another 2.9 million dependents who live with a family member covered by employer sponsored insurance. While there are no follow-up questions on the February CPS to determine why dependents are uninsured, one can surmise that many of those dependents could have been insured under the covered worker's employer plan but the worker found it unaffordable to purchase family coverage.

[Spazito]

37. I believe that is what my post said...

Youth tend not to have the chronic health issues others have. Other than that, they have the same health needs. They have accidents, babies, etc.

It is not that they believe they do not need it, it is a question of cost, you and I seem to agree on that.

[Gormy Cuss]

91. No, your post said that the OP was naive. Whether it's cost or some other reason is not the point.

Age is a factor in the choice to forgo health insurance without regard to cost specifically because playing the odds as a healthy 20 year old makes more sense than as a 40 year old with a different odds.

That cost is the driving force in the choice actually supports the notion that this same subset will be against a mandatory purchase plan under health care reform because they see it as something that they can't afford. That likely will result in an immediate if perhaps short term voter movement away from Obama and other Democrats.

[Spazito]

145. The OP was sheer speculation, the OP poster has already admitted so...

and your post is also mere speculation as opposed to providing factual data. I used the term "naive" in order to give the benefit of the doubt to the poster as to his/her reasoning for posting the OP. There is no doubt now as to the deliberate misuse of the "youth" in order to further the poster's own agenda.

[Gormy Cuss]

147. Can't have facts before they exist. That's why speculation based on past trends is helpful.

I don't know the OP's agenda beyond what is stated here.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

50. No, and the youth don't have lots of babies, either.

[Spazito]

61. Really? There are no babies being born to anyone under 25?

Wow! Oh, and do you have statistical proof of your contention? If so, please provide such proof, it would be appreciated. If you have no proof, then I can assume your post is merely speculation.

[Igel]

128. Take that post to be sarcastic.

Then it makes better sense. Our health insurance covered prenatal checkups and delivery costs.

[Cha]

6. More Whiney little deadender

prophecies.:cry::scared:

[Igel]

130. Or he's considering cause and effect,

and then openly debating whether his inference is likely to be true.

It's a serious objection and worthy of consideration, even if the idea of debating the issues is inconvenient.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

141. So says the purist, So shall it be.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

7. Tucker Carlson has maintained the same point - why should a young healthy person

be forced to have insurance coverage?

The answer:

1. They do get sick

2. They do have accidents. (they are the demographic that skis, surfs, bikes, climbs, etc. MORE than anyone else)

Responsible young people feel very insecure about not having coverage, at least the ones I know do. The issue is usually affordability - they're not making enough after rent, cars,carinsurance, STUDENT LOANS, etc. to afford the insurance they wish they had.

[Igel]

131. "Affordability" is a strange concept.

I couldn't afford insurance when I was 25. Yeah, I had the money, but I wanted to do other things. I couldn't afford it *given my lifestyle."

When I was younger, I went to Britain and Louisiana and Hawaii and Cozumel and other places on vacation. I took violin lessons and bought a nice violin and viola. I had a nifty book collection that I continually added to. I went out 2-3x/month with friends for dinner, and took weekend trips. I went to concerts. But I couldn't afford insurance.

Now I'm 50. I can't afford guitar lessons. My wife and I haven't taken a real vacation in a decade, and we take a weekend trip maybe once a year--in addition to visiting our parents. We eat out once a week, and don't go to concerts. We can afford insurance.

The point: "Affordability" is not just what fits into your budget, but what you fit into your budget. Now, if our income were less less would be affordable. But I could easily manage to make health insurance unaffordable, even doubling out income. The question is, Who has the right to determine my priorities? For some people, the answer is "Nobody". For others, the answer is "the government." For yet others, I'm sure a third (and fourth, and fifth) answer can be found.

[scheming daemons]

8. Do me a favor and do NOT ever be a campaign manager for a candidate that I want to win

You're politically tone-deaf.


Obama will get 2/3 of the 18-34 year old vote in 2012... just like he did in 2008.



Demographics. Trends. Learn.

[bvar22]

11. Don't worry.

I've read your posts, and I doubt we will ever support the same candidate.
I prefer REAL Democrats.

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[fascisthunter]

19. good reply

[SammyWinstonJack]

77. +1

:thumbsup:

[Donnachaidh]

119. +10000!

:rofl:

[Donnachaidh]

118. rose colored glasses are fun, aren't they?

But the blinkers don't match the pom poms... :rofl:

[notesdev]

10. Ignoring tuition costs isn't helping either

And that is something that is far easier for the federal government to deal with, given the central role of government financing agencies.

If the boomers refuse to relent in their quest to consume every last bit of wealth in this country before they die, they will find that succeeding generations will have a mounting interest in the practice of euthanasia.

[KharmaTrain]

46. Nice Broadbrush...

This baby boomer has spent most of the past 35 years paying for insurance I didn't use. I'd be willing to bet that I've contributed at least $500 a month to cover myself and my family over that time...or $6k a year...or well over $150k by now (discounting a couple years where I couldn't afford insurance). In those years, we've made one claim when my son broke his arm. My hopes are I will never have to file a claim (and will continue to throw money into the system) as it's the price one pays to be protected. It has nothing to do with being greedy or "consuming every last bit of wealth"...and that doesn't count all the money I've paid in SSI that I probably won't be able to count on until I hit age 67 or older.

When you contribute that kind of money, then we'll hear how "selfish" your generation is. Sheesh...

[notesdev]

55. It's a general observation

It doesn't apply to every specific case, but it is right on target with regard to the statistical aggregate. By looking at a chart of U.S. debt levels it is easy as pie to point the precise points where the boomers began to gain power, and solidified it.

The facts are undeniable - the boomers as a generation consumed and continue to consume far more than they could ever hope to produce. That is why every child born in this country today is born into $200,000 in debt.

This is called "intergenerational theft" and it is a moral crime of a very high order. One generation has no right to obligate future generations to pay for its desires today, and that is exactly what we have seen over 30 years of boomer political power.

[KharmaTrain]

68. And I'm Paying The Debts of The "Greatest Generation"...

And your point is? This country's debt has been on the rise since World War II. If anything, the "boomers" did something to try to stop the growing debt...it was called balancing the budget (look up the 90s). The biggest defecit spender way Raygun followed by boooshie...neither would be "boomers" in my book.

What I'm leaving for future generations is not debts from my desires...if anything I've taken a backseat to make sure the next generation gets what it needs...for my children. I went over 15 years without a vacation and until recent years I barely had enough to spend on much more than a nice dinner (and then I brought the family).

So the boomers have been in power for 30 years? That sure news to me. I wish I could cater to my desires and maybe one day when I no longer have the obligations and responsibilities I have now, I may. However, I've seen my share of studies over the years that show my generation has had LESS advantages and been in a poorer economic position than the generations that came before.

Facts are only undeniable when it's there to prove a point but holds little merit. Again...nice broadbrush...

[SoCalDem]

12. or they say HELLO to all the young & uninformed

who think they are not going to ever:

have a car accident
have a baby
have a snowboarding accident
have a skateboarding/roller-skating/basketball injury
have the flu
have migraines
get an STD
get appendicitis
get cancer (it happens to young people too)

When you leave the Mommy-Daddy nest, it's time to grow up, and growing up means NOT spending every dime you make on entertainment, cars, spiffy apartments, club memberships, eating out, clothes,shoes, toys, etc.


No one is saying that young people should not enjoy their youth, but they need to realize that just being young, does not guarantee health.

[bvar22]

16. Preach to them, not me.

Some are responsible.
But MOST will resent being forced to purchase Health Insurance.

Truth is (as someone pointed out above), we old timers NEED them to be sending in their payments to reduce OUR costs.

[SoCalDem]

Resenting "old folks" is part of being young

:rofl:

They'll get used to it, and later wonder why they got so pissed off, when they need people younger than THEY are, to participate:)

[tabbycat31]

89. May I ask your age?

I am 29, and have no health insurance. When I lost my job last year, the bill for COBRA was more than my rent.

I never spent that much $$ of entertainment, cars (I drive a 10 yo car), club memberships, eating out, etc. Most of my limited $$$ right now (I am a full time student) goes towards either food, rent, or gas/tolls.

[SoCalDem]

92. I was once 29.. and had a handicapped child who had surgery 3 times a year

also had a 1 yr old, and was pregnant with our 3rd, so I understand that "many" younger people are responsible, but you have to admit that also many of them have an air of invincibility, and skip the insurance because they "don't need it", and see those premiums as a waste of their money.

It's also unfortunate to have to be a full-time student at 29, so I know that "you" have special circumstances, but many others do not have that same reason.

COBRA is a j.o.k.e.....always has been. Anyone who thinks that quadrupling the cost to a person who just lost their income, was a good idea..well they are crazy.


It's younger people/macro..who often bypass the coverage.. younger people/micro, who do get coverage, are the responsible ones who are paying for the miscalculations of those other youngers..just as we older-folks pay for them too.

Every time some 24 yr old cracks his melon (sans helmet) from a motorcycle accident, we ALL pay for his lifetime(sometimes) of rehab..

[Spike from MN]

148. If you're a full-time student, can you get health insurance through

your college? When I was in college, the student fees ($100 or so per quarter) included health insurance. If the student could provide proof that they had coverage somewhere else (parent's policy, job, etc.), they could get the health insurance portion of the fee waived. I have no idea what the coverage was like as I always worked full-time while attending college and I got health insurance through my job so I always waived the university coverage. Anyway, it might be worth it for you to check into whether or not the college you're attending can offer you health insurance coverage.

[Juche]

154. I hope to some day have your maturity

But being young and stupid, I can only work hard, eat my vegetables and pray to whatever God the culture I was born into believes in that I will eventually be your equal.

If you seriously believe young people spend 'every dime we make' on spiffy apartments, clothes or cars you have no idea. How many young people do you know?

PPS, Southern California has a very materialistic vibe to it (LA, San Diego). I could easily paint everyone there as someone who spends everything they make on entertainment, cars, spiffy apartments, club memberships, eating out, clothes,shoes, toys. But I don't.

[SoCalDem]

156. macro v micro

I don't know "you" personally, and was not referring to you --specifically.. Your Mom raised to to be responsible..many youngers are not so lucky..

Props to your Mom & Dad..& to you!

[Juche]

157. You've got good social skills

I was a dick and you defused it eloquently. That was pretty good.

I think young people should be mandated to buy catastrophic insurance ($5000 annual out of pocket limits for copays and deductibles) as those plans are probably $100/month or less. However a high end health insurance program might cost $700+ a month for a young person who'd never use it.

[Posteritatis]

14. Many of my friends among The Youth would be overjoyed to get coverage

But they've got parents with inconvenient conditions, or have been diagnosed with psych disorders or something else both sides like to stigmatize, and therefore can't get anywhere near insurance they actually need and know they need because nobody will allow them to have it. Or they had coverage but were dropped the moment something happened that required said coverage.

But it's easier to talk about the under-thirty-or-so crowd as a monolith around here, so carry on.

[Johonny]

45. I agree

I remember when I finally went off my parents coverage. Basically routine things like a doctors visit when I had the flu or cleaning my teeth suddenly became an adventure. I remember being happy to land my first job with health benefits and finally being able to see a dentist again. I don't remember the time in my life when I didn't think I'd need health care.

[Posteritatis]

52. Definitely

One of my friends is currently in the "fun" situation of having bipolar disorder, which means she can't really get private insurance ever with the way things are in the US right now. She could, in theory, get coverage through an employer that would allow her to maybe be able to afford the medication she needs, but she also needs that treatment to be able to get her keel straightened out enough that she can feasibly find employment that would confer benefits. She had private insurance before all of this, but her insurer dropped her the instant they heard she'd gotten diagnosed.

So in the meantime, she's stuck in a holding pattern. But noooooOOOoooo, The Youth(tm) think they're invincible and care naught about health! Grumble.

[bvar22]

64. So you didn't BUY Health Insurance....

...when you were "between jobs", or hadn't "landed" that job with benefits.
Under the NEW system, that would make you a criminal.

[Johonny]

107. I didn't say that

I bought some crap insurance that University offered. It covered nothing and had an amazingly low cap. I would have love to have a public option of real coverage.

You're a criminal if you don't pay medicare or social security now. So I really, really don't get your point.

[fizzgig]

82. i know i would be

i'm 28, diagnosed bipolar and lost my insurance when i lost my job 18 months ago. i'm able to get my meds, thank gods, but i know this is going to screw me when my (almost) husband or i get a job that offers benefits or if i had the money to purchase my own.

[Juche]

155. Pretty much

Even if I get insurance with a pre-existing condition, there is no guarantee they won't rescind the policy the second I try to use it on some technicality.

[Echo In Light]

15. Either that, or 'they' know the phony "War OF Terror" will conveniently 'heat up' again

[countingbluecars]

17. What about the costs associated

with pregnancy and having children. This applies to many young people. They need insurance.

[bvar22]

27. Tell that to the guy...

...who just got a job as a clerk at the Auto Parts store.

Forcing the young to BUY Health Insurance is not going to play well.
Those who come from wealthy families, or are responsible and who have the means to afford Health Insurance won't complain.

Those just getting out of college and want to take a few years to "look around" WILL.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. That guy will qualify under the subsidy

mark my words

[AnnieBW]

18. Okay, you're in good health.

I'll agree to that. But what happens if you get hit by a car, have to go to the ER, and you discover that you have a concussion? Or you're skiing, wipe out, and break your leg? Will you have enough money to cover your medical bills then?

That's what insurance is for. I'm a good driver, so I don't need auto insurance - until someone who is a bad driver hits me. And yes, that has happened on more than one occasion. I was damn glad that I had auto insurance.

[sinkingfeeling]

21. I don't think so. The age bracket of 19 to 29 is one with a low insurance rate, but not because they

believe they don't require insurance.

http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/members/news/2005/August-News/young_and_uninsured.htm

A Commonwealth Fund survey also found that 70 percent of young workers say that health insurance is an important factor for them when they choose a job, a figure comparable to other age groups.

[WildEyedLiberal]

29. Well let's not let that get in the way of our hilarious stereotypes about under-30s

You know, that all we spend money on are new iPods or Xbox games or an iPhone with sweet apps.

I'd wager that under-30s are the most underinsured age demographic in this country, and it's not because we think we're "invincible," it's because the value of a college degree has plummeted horrendously and we can barely get a job that pays 25K a year with a bachelor's.

[sinkingfeeling]

66. You are correct. That's exactly the conclusion reached in the article I quoted.

[TxRider]

105. I can only go by my outlook at 20

And I can tell you health insurance wasn't even in my outlook.

[endarkenment]

22. Part of reform will include coverage up to age 25.

Many states have already implemented this reform. Family plans that terminate coverage at 21 or 18 unless your kid is in school are going to have to start covering kids a bit longer. Long enough that the majority, the vast majority, will be employed and covered on their own.

For example the HELP version of the senate bill:

"Extension of Dependent Adults: All individual and group coverage policies will be required to continue offering
dependent coverage for children until the child turns age 26, according to regulations to be established by the
Secretary of Health & Human Services."

Try again. Which demographic is it?

[TheKentuckian]

23. Shit, I carried insurance and a healthy amount of supplemental as well

in my 20's. I think the vast majority have no problem with getting coverage.

We've asked young people to go die on foreign soil, I don't think asking them to carry insurance is too heavy a cross to bear. One day they too will be 30, 40, 50, and 60. Its great to contribute to the common good. Today's minor sacrifice will fuel tomorrow's huge boon for them. Further, most don't care who gets their money, the money is the issue and would be under any system. Those who championed single payer to get "free" insurance were very much willfully ignorant.

[Howardx]

24. i hope the democrats say goodbye to the defeatist demographic

too chickenshit to tackle the republicans so they turn on their own. again.

[bvar22]

62. Do you really?

You would like to replay 2000?

I don't.

[Howardx]

74. that is unlikely AT BEST

im sick of "democrats" undermining the president.

[bvar22]

122. I'm sick of "Centrists"...

...undermining the Democratic Party.

"Centrism"...because its so EASY!
You don't have to STAND for ANYTHING, and get to insult those who do!
:party:

"Centrism"= I'm for anything they tell me I'm for.
Whatever is in the middle is good enough for me!



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[steelmania75]

28. Democrats aren't losing the youth vote.

Obama's too tech-savvy and cool to let that happen.

[bvar22]

30. Tell that to the guy...

...who can't afford the new game platform because he is now forced to buy something he thinks he doesn't need.

How cool is that?

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Oh please that guy will buy that game platform the SAME way

he's always bought it, PLASTIC.

You think most kids buy the crap they buy using CASH?

[treestar]

95. The young voters did a ton to get Obama elected

And their votes in majority went to him, if I remember right.

I think it's the other way round. The reason it's so hard to get reform in the country is the oldies. They are the ones who have theirs and don't care if the younger generations don't. Most Republicans are oldies.

[Bill McBlueState]

35. do you have evidence for ANY of your claims?

Who are these people who can afford insurance but don't buy it? I'm in my 20s, and I don't know anyone like that.

[Johonny]

48. and more to the point

how many of them vote?

[Igel]

135. He doesn't.

But that's not the same as saying it doesn't exist. The thing is, to explore this is to critique a dem proposal and provide data showing that the problem isn't the urgent crisis we know it to be. We're arguing *for* this proposal, not against it, and such data is wildly inconvenient. I happen to like facts, though, even when inconvenient--they keep my proposals a bit more grounded.

If you look at the numbers of uninsured--whether the 47 million or 30 million or some other number--you find that there are all kinds of different subgroups.

There are those who lack jobs or whose employers don't offer health insurance, so the only insurance they can get is massively expensive; there are those who would like to buy health insurance but can't afford it. There are those with pre-existing conditions who can't get insurance. Then there are those whose income is high enough or whose employer offers it, but who don't prioritize health insurance high enough to displace other non-essentials in their budget (I was one of those). There are those eligible for public plans who simply haven't signed up. There are those here illegally who wouldn't be covered, it would appear, under Obama's proposal (and that's not a small number, by the way).

Look at it this way: Before I moved to Texas, the state I lived in had a few different public awareness campaigns going. One was to sign up the millions of people eligible for food stamps but who never applied. Another was to get the kids who were eligible into health plans--their parents didn't sign them up, estimated to be in the hundreds of thousands. A third was to get low-income adults into Medicaid (was it?), when hundreds of thousands could get it essentially for free, but didn't bother. Free health care, and they didn't sign up. And the idea of young adults not springing for health insurance is a reach?

When I was in my 20s I didn't know anybody who earned enough to buy health insurance but who didn't buy it. Then again, I was scraping by--I went on a vacation for a week or two annually, weekend trips 3-4x/year, I ate out 2-3x/month, I was taking music lessons, etc., etc. Obviously I couldn't afford health insurance. Then again, those "essentials" exceeded the cost of health insurance. In other words, by the objective yardstick most economists use (where "essentials" are things that really are essential--food, clothing, shelter, and we're not talking truffles, designer suits, and McMansions), I chose not to buy health insurance.

[Spike89]

36. They aren't all pocketbook

You're selling young people way short. Youth is also the time of increased idealism. They know just how broken the system is and they know it needs to be fixed. Sure, some are going to grumble, but more will be annoyed that they aren't asked for even a more aggressive healthcare reform.

[Greyhound]

39. Oh my, you've pissed off the faithful,

...again.

:rofl::thumbsup:

[Zen Democrat]

40. Worked with a young man a few years ago who didn't want health insurance --

When the small firm we worked for was buying a group plan the insurance company required a minimum of 20 to enroll. We had 19 enrollees and the head of the firm impressed upon the young man who declined coverage to sign up for it with a company subsidy. He was young, said he was healthy, and saw no need to pay for health insurance.

Three weeks after our insurance went into effect he was diagnosed with an agressive cancer that required chemo and radiation. He lived several years thereafter, but often said that had the firm not signed him up for the plan he would have died in six months.

That's anecdotal, of course, but how many people plan to have accidents, and catastrophic illness? We have insurance for our homes and our cars. Certainly our health is even more important.

And ... I hope our progressive young people are farsighted enough, and intelligent enough, to realize the importance of universal health coverage -- it has to cost something, whether premiums or taxes, to make it affordable for everyone.

[bvar22]

47. Taxes might be the best way to go.

If you don't see it, you don't miss it.

Unless covered by an employer, the plan so far will force them to buy Health Insurance from "The Exchange".
Even with a subsidy, they will be forced to "come out of pocket" every month with a payment to (for most) one of the For Profit Mega-Corporations.

It won't be pretty.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. So, I take it you don't favor universal coverage?

Yeah. Whatever.

The best of all possible options, in my mind, would be a single payer system. And you bet your booty that young people would not only be covered, they would also pay for it- through taxes.

Trying to argue that something needs to be done for the uninsured but that people who think they're immune to sickness or catastrophic health costs should be able to just blow it off --- it's inane.

[bvar22]

115. No.

I favor REAL Universal Coverage with, at a minimum, a REAL Public Option, owned by The Public, administered by The Government and available to anyone who wants it.

I don't support a Health Insurance Profit Protection Plan that contains something the politicians CALL a "Public Option" that isn't available to The Public, and is not much of an alternative to For Profit Health Insurance.

A REAL "Public Option" would be able to use every single advantage that Public Ownership and Government Administration would give it, and not be forced "on to a level playing field" by some BOGUS "Exchange".

[Warren DeMontague]

142. I agree with much of what you've written. Of course, I also think a SPHC system makes the most sense

however, none of that was what your OP was about; your OP suggests that Dems are going to 'lose the youth vote' by 'forcing healthy people to get insurance'.

That is a completely different matter than not being happy with the shape of the Public Option, if we even get one.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

44. You are wrong. Youth care much more about social issues than fiscal issues

those who are already fiscally conservative/greedy are already voting republican

Youth care about wars, wide range of social issues etc. How much health care will cost us is really not of primary importance

[bvar22]

53. Good.

Then they won't mind writing a check to a Mega-Corporation for $50 or $100 per month.
Glad to know that The Youth are so supportive of our Corporate state.

Note:
There are about 45 - 50 Million uninsured.
The CBO (confirmed by Obama) that less than 10 million will be enrolled in the Public Option after 10 years.
ALL the rest will be mandated onto the rolls of the For Profit Health Insurance Industry.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

59. yes, and we may lose the progressive vote but not all the youth vote

this argument is specious at best

[Ozymanithrax]

51. Who forced us to get automobile insurance?

Do the youth punish them. Now, in most states, California being one, no insurance, no drivers license, no automible registration. The youth do not blame Democrats or Republicans for that. It is just a fact of life, even if they don't like it.

They don't blame Democrats for Social Security Deductions, and we are responsible.

For the same reasons, if you have something that affects everybody equally, it becomes a fact of life. People, even young people, adapt and react to new issues in public life.

There are many other facts that the youth will pass judgment on. Will they vote for a party that is homophobic or inclusive? Will they vote for a party that offers them freedom of choice or wages class warfare against what they like?

[get the red out]

54. They should vote for Republicans

then they won't have to pay for any damn health care they won't need in a 1,000 years. They won't have a job, won't have student loans or any chance at a grant, many will have to enlist in the military because of no chance at a job or education, there will be continuous war, they can forget about sex because birth control will become scarcely available, gay youth will be fair game for a newly energized Xtian right....

But they sure will be better off not having to pay for any damn health care and they know it too!

:sarcasm:

[PetrusMonsFormicarum]

57. Respectfully disagree.

For how long have we all had to maintain auto insurance because we have to, by law? We may grumble about it, or pass over another bill so we can get the insurance paid up, but we still do it because we know that it is leveling the playing field on our roads. Most of us have policies that also cover uninsured motorist liability. We know that, after a collision/accident, that part of our premium isn't going to come back to our pockets. It's covering the asses of all policy holders.

[Laelth]

58. k&r for the truth.

Ignore this warning at your peril, party shills.

:dem:

-Laelth

[WI_DEM]

60. No they haven't--and I'll bet you anything the younger voters will still be Obama's strongest

supporters in the polls which are coming up. There is just too much handwringing. Obama is going to accomplish more on health care and getting people insurance and reform than any other president but a few people won't be satisfied.

[LynneSin]

70. One of the few things I'll recommend in this thread

:D

[bvar22]

71. No.

He certainly won't surpass LBJ and Medicare.
Not with the bird nest of proposals he made last night.
(Thank You Rachael for "bird nest")

[Dr Fate]

99. I doubt it will hurt Obama much either. It's our numbers in congress that worry me.

I dont see the more informed young people going out of their way to help Blue Dogs, for instance.

[YoungAndOutraged]

63. Make the richest 10% pay for everyone

Seems the best way to me. Surely they can get by with having to settle for five vacation homes instead of six. Let those who leeched off everyone else for so many years finally pay what they owe. One thing I know is that I'm forced to buy insurance or else pay a fine, I won't be able to pay it, and I'll certainly be pissed at somebody.

[bvar22]

69. I could support that.

In the 50s, 60s, and 70s, the top tax bracket was 70% - 90%.

Everyone has access to good healthcare, either through affordable (really) Health Insurance, or a "public" hospital or clinic.

You could also attend a State University and graduate debt free if you were willing to work Part Time.

Those things would be possible today,
IF we had a Political Party that represented Working Americans.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

98. It wouldn't cover even a small fraction of the cost.

[theophilus]

72. Maybe "Goodbye" to the stupid ones. They probably didn't vote anyway in any numbers. n/t

[Ian David]

73. When you're young, you often get insurance through your parents or your college. n/t

[inna]

75. the two party system HAS GOT to go. thank god for the internet, or else...

... those disappointed by the Democratic (corporatist center-right) party would be joining the Republican (corporatist extreme-right lunatic fringe) party.

[bvar22]

117. I wish we had a Two Party system.

:patriot:

[Spike from MN]

152. Hey c'mon now.

We DO have two parties. One is the "Party for the Corporations" and the other is the "Party of the Corporations."

Sheesh. Some people are never satisfied. ;)

[Sparkly]

76. They don't need Social Security and Medicare much, either.... So?? nt

[Trillo]

78. Yeah, I saw that too.

But I suspect the Opt-Out Fee, what is it, $3500, goes to government. But I could be wrong. It could go to Private Health Insurance companies, particularly if they own the behind-the-public-face of government as we believe.

It's a youth "tax", no matter where it goes. It's also a poverty tax, we all know that government always designs things so the poorest of the dirt poor will get some help, but amazingly enough, the lower middle class never seems to be considered poor, even though they can barely pay meager bills.

Feeling the squeeze of inflation lately?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

81. On your edit, I mentioned that in a couple of posts today. 4 years..curious amt of time?

[Duke Newcombe]

85. Your concern is noted. n/t

[aikoaiko]

86. I remember in 1993 when I passed on my univ's health insurance because I was sure Bill & Hillary

...would get their health insurance program going soon.

I was soooo naive.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

90. And young people can very easily get into car accidents

So, that's not the smartest take.

[TxRider]

93. No young people are the by far the most likely to have an accident.

That's why insurance costs several times more for people under 21....

[treestar]

94. Just because a person is young doesn't mean they are always so stupid

that they don't realize there is a future.

I'm sure most of them voted for Obama, and get the concept.

Being self centered is for Republicans, not youth.

In fact the younger people are more likely to be idealistic in wanting health care for everyone.

[bvar22]

116. Wait until they are forced to write out that check every month....

...for something they don't think they need.

The BEST reason to wait until AFTER the 2012 elections.
I never said Obama (and his financiers) were dumb.

[treestar]

143. What check?

We will be writing checks every month?

I had no problem paying doctors for checkup when I was in my 20s. It was encouraged. I had no problem paying taxes then, either. I believe some of it went to Medicare.

I was intelligent enough to realize that health care was something I "needed." I even had a minor health problem myself. I was in the working world and had older colleagues and friends. They had health problems. There are accidents.

Maybe it was being female? I didn't have any kids, but certainly women in the 20s have babies. They have contact with doctors and hospitals. And once they have the kid, they don't think "this is a baby who will never get sick." Quite the contrary; they are very concerned.

You are talking about 16 year olds, not voting age people.

[seabeyond]

97. i know a hell of a lot of young adults going to hospital for cold, not paying there bill and

stickin it to all of us that pay

lots of young go into hospital for one thing or another. and yes, they need insurance too

i am tired of this little meme.

when i was young worked for company that had insurance, good insurance and and was glad for it.

[Lord Helmet]

101. don't presume to speak for others

[emulatorloo]

102. How do you know the premium for young people won't be low?

[ipaint]

108. Jobs aren't coming back until into 2014. wages are flat and have been for years.

No consumer- no economy.
The working class and below are in a depression, that is the majority of americans. People will have to choose saving or pay for overpriced private ins. even with a mandate. They will have to choose putting a bit aside for their kids education or overpriced private health ins. Saving for dental work or overpriced ins. Saving for a downpayment on a house or overpriced ins. etc, etc.

As in Mass. as prices rise and subsidies don't cover what folks can't afford people will start falling out of the system in droves.
The public option is extremely weak in the best of the house bills and has no power to bring down premiums, too few enrollees and private ins. controls the market, premiums are expected to double in 10 years.

Private ins. companies are beholden to shareholders not to us. That means by law they must do what is best for their investors. That of course means denying care. We will need several new consumer organizations to make a dent in the myriad of sneaky, underhanded ways the ins. companies have already figured out to deny care while obeying the law. Once the regulatory agencies are staffed with lobbyists and ex government people, as is the case in every other federal agency, we've lost. They may behave in the higher class insurance plans but the subsidized working class with shitty coverage will be mercilessly abused to make up the difference.

Who can pay for school loans and overpriced for profit insurance in the job market that isn't predicted to start turning until 2014. Even after 2014 where are the jobs for working class kids coming from?

Folks who are whining about paying for the uninsured better start saving up because you will be paying through the nose for your own coverage and the tens of millions who will no longer be able to afford mandated coverage even with subsidies.

We can't afford insurance companies. We can't afford to pay for a middleman that adds nothing of value and sucks enormous amounts of much needed money away from providing health care for all Americans and into their off shore bank accounts.

The democrats will lose more than the youth vote once this "plan" starts falling apart.

[CreekDog]

123. When I went through college, most of us that went w/o insurance didn't like doing it

and/or didn't have a choice in the matter.

[Coventina]

132. No, more like the DUMB demographic. I got health insurance

just as soon as I could after I could no longer be on my parents' health insurance.

And it's a good thing I did, because I needed it when I found a lump in my breast at age 21.

Young people are not automatically dumb.

[dugaresa]

134. you said it all, the young folks who don't understand the importance

end up regretting it.

At 22 and at my first job, I got an infection that gave me a lymphatic infection. My boyfriend at the time was in medical school and he freaked out. It looked like I had golf balls under my skin, it was almost cartoonish if it weren't so scary. Gosh was I happy to have healthcare! When I saw those bills from the doctors and the labs what a shockeroo.

[dugaresa]

133. Old People, People with No Kids - They pay School Taxes

ooooh they might get upset and some do.

But if you are rational, you understand that sometimes you pay for things that perhaps you won't use. We all go to school as kids and the majority go to public school and one day you will pay into that system.

We all need health care, everyone who participate (all of us) must somehow contribute.


It's all part of that democracy and living in a civilized society thing. The young people who don't understand that are being raised by selfish people.

[Zynx]

140. Young people get cancer too. They should be insured.

[Juche]

150. As long as we can buy high deductible catastrophic care

I don't want to be forced to buy a plan with a $0-250 deductible, as that'll cost me $200-300/month. However quotes for a plan with a $2000 annual deductible are only about $80/month.

I can't get insurance now because of a pre-existing condition.