Message to you lurking right-wingers.

[Xicano]

There's a point I hear you folks make often that as far as I am concerned illustrates your ignorance. I often hear you folks cry "the government never does a good job at running things". Of course with respect to a government public health care option you're making that statement with the inference the government is going to ruin health care.

Well, I have a few questions for you. How good of a job does the government do at running our military? Don't you folks often brag that we have the best military in the world hands down?

How good of a job does the government do at running federal, state and local law enforcement agencies? As far as I am concerned, too good of a job if you ask me. You can't get away with anything now days no matter how small of a deal it is.

How good of a job does the government do at running fire and emergency services? Do you agree that you can expect having no problems in getting emergency services if you pick up the phone and call upon them?

How good of a job does the government do at running the public highways? How do you drive to work everyday? Do you take it for granted without thinking about it that 99% of time the road you're driving on is always in reasonable to good condition?

How good of a job does the government do at running public infrastructure? Step outside and smell the air. Do you smell any sewage? No? Who do you think is responsible for running sewage treatment plants? Turn on your taps. Is the water reaching your house's plumbing? Do you ever have to worry about this service reaching your house? No? Who do you think is responsible for running the services to install and maintain water mains?

Now what was that again about "the government never does a good job at running things"?

[DrDan]

1. you can easily add schools, medicare, and social security to that list

the whackos' favorite whipping boys . . .

How many come to the U.S. for our education . . . lots

How many would drop from medicare and social security . . . . . none

Their blather about the government not being able to run large institutions is just hot air - no basis in-fact.

[Xicano]

2. Here, here!

:fistbump:

[abq e streeter]

3. I admire you for still trying to use facts and logic with right wingers

I don't even try anymore. ( and of course you're right about every single point, but I've stopped expecting them to respond to anything but the hate and fear based parts of their "brains".)

[Xicano]

7. They remind me of the teenager who thinks he/she knows it all

But doesn't have a clue.

[Xzanther]

4. Oh and Public Libraries..

..or do they even know those exist?

Zing!

[uppityperson]

5. k&r

[Xicano]

6. +1

That's a good one.. :rofl:

[nccomms]

8. all with the exception of the military

& the federal police are local agencies run by the state or city/town. So you really don't have but a few examples of government run organizations in their. I might add that you conveniently left out the post office since it's one of the governments biggest failures. Don't get me wrong here i'm all for insuring the uninsured, but not at the risk of someone else having control of mine. I say if you need it or want it then great, but if like myself you are happy with what you have then leave me alone.

[Xicano]

11. I commend you on your bravery to post here, but...

Even if I agreed with you, which I don't, just those few examples I gave (and believe you me there are more examples) they cover way more than enough of our every day lives to destroy any cries by right-wingers that the government "never" does a good job at running things.

Secondly, do you consider our country to be a civilized country? Or do you consider our country to be more animal like, such as survival of the fittest? If your answer is the former, then, people in a civilized society don't allow others to starve to death and die of a medical condition that can be treated - especially when we're the wealthiest nation on earth. If your answer is the latter, then, you're in the same company of ideology as Hitler and the Nazis.

Just something you should think about...

n/t

[nccomms]

13. i'm in the middle on that one

if a person is capable of working & is just too damned lazy to get a job. then no i don't feel they should get free anything, they did not earn it. However if a person is truly incapable of providing for them self then yes we (society) should help. Believe me i'm not one of these assholes crying "why do i have to pay for your health care" my point is why should i be forced to pay for something that i don't want or need. Also for those of you bitching about the post about the post office I do use them as little as possible. I make my payroll via direct deposit & we send most everything via UPS. If you think all it costs is .44 to mail a letter your sadly mistaken. You pay directly .44 & the government props them up on the rest. ie. our tax dollars pay the difference that the .44 doesn't cover.

[Xicano]

18. Why should you pay for a socialized service?

You asked: "my point is why should i be forced to pay for something that i don't want or need".

First off I'd like to say that maybe you don't need it now, but, are you so sure that you or a loved one won't need it at some point? You might want to consider that.

Secondly I'd like to say. If you suffered a catastrophic natural disaster. Would you apply for government assistance to help you put your life back together? Or would "go at it alone" even if you didn't have the means to do so? If your answer is yes you would apply for assistance. Then I am sorry, but then you'd be a hypocrite. No offense intended.

How about United States Constitution, Article 1, Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and *general welfare* of the United States.....

What is more basic with regard to 'general welfare' than one's health?

And how about because it will more than likely save you money. How? How much more do you already end up having to pay to cover needy people's emergency health care costs that happens because they didn't have access to health care which could have prevented an emergency?

How much do you end up having to pay in law enforcement and prison costs because those out of work end up turning to crime in order to survive? Does that mean we should reward laziness? No. Preventing exploitation of social aid programs is easy enough to implement. Just require recipients of aid to show proof they are actively looking for employment and not turning down employment offers, or are a full time student, or are handicapped and unable to work.

How much do you benefit off other socialized programs and take them for granted without even thinking about it? Don't you think something as basic as health care is at least as basic as law enforcement, fire & emergency services, military defense, etc?

Again, because in a civilized society people don't allow people to starve to death or die of a medical condition that could be treated.

I could keep going on, but, really is it necessary? Because I doubt right-wingers will ever admit that they enjoy socialized programs and don't even realize it.

[nccomms]

20. I see your point

and have said that at some point we will get insurance. I also agree with you, but do you see my point that regulating responsible people such as myself is a waste of time. I pay my medical bills. Why can't the government provide health care for those who need or want it, & impose fines on those that do not pay their bills. As you said it is easy enough to regulate it so it is not misused. If you go to the doctor & don't pay your bill then the doc reports it, the fed deducts it from your tax refund or garnish wages.

[FrenchieCat]

12. You might hate the post office, but I bet that you use it......

and probably get all pissed off when the price of stamps increase.

perhaps FED Ex should get in the business of regular mail delivery,
and start charging 1 penny less than the Govt....and once the Post office is out of business,
it could start its very own monopoly and start charging us 5 dollars instead cause there would be no competition to help keep prices low. Guess then you'd be happy that mail delivery was totally privatized, hey?

[11 Bravo]

9. I also love how they bitch about the USPS. For 44 cents someone will come to their homes,

pick up their puerile scribblings, and deliver them anywhere in the fucking country. Sounds like a bargain to me.

[Enthusiast]

10. It is an incredible bargain.

And the USPS conducts their function in an ethical manner, something we cannot expect from corporations.

[TxRider]

16. They do?

That's why get a significant portion of a rain forest in my mailbox every year in junk mail?

Delivered for pennies a piece while I pay about half a dollar?

I actually asked them to stop delivering anything without my name on it, to not deliver me anything addressed to "resident", they told me by law they had to deliver it.

IMO the USPS sold us out to become just a mere marketing arm for corporations and business delivering unwanted junk advertisement long ago. If I still didn't have a few statements delivered through mail that I can;t get online I would toss my mailbox and never look back.

[Enthusiast]

24. Oh, bull shit!

You can't even expect me to believe you. The USPS doesn't create this junk mail. It is their duty to deliver it. They are performing their sworn duty. Funny, I seldom hearDemocrats that don't like the USPS. As a matter of fact, if you aren't a freeper plant, you are the first Democrat that doesn't like the USPS I have EVER heard of.

[TxRider]

17. While dumping scads on corporate advertising on them, they should pick up the letter for free

[Enthusiast]

26. I am very suspicious of you.

You are attempting to generate anger toward the USPS but you are not doing a very good job of it. I firmly believe you are a freeper.

[lunatica]

14. kick. This stuff can't be repeated enough

[TxRider]

15. Hate to play devils advocate...

There's a point I hear you folks make often that as far as I am concerned illustrates your ignorance. I often hear you folks cry "the government never does a good job at running things". Of course with respect to a government public health care option you're making that statement with the inference the government is going to ruin health care.

I come from a conservative state, and argue this with conservatives around me who are not idiots quite often. I'll give you their perspective.

Well, I have a few questions for you. How good of a job does the government do at running our military? Don't you folks often brag that we have the best military in the world hands down?

Ever hear of a $1000 toilet seat, $900 hammer, and troops going to war without armor? We have the best military, but cost effective and efficient does not describe the DOD.

How good of a job does the government do at running federal, state and local law enforcement agencies? As far as I am concerned, too good of a job if you ask me. You can't get away with anything now days no matter how small of a deal it is.

The argument is about the federal government, not state and local. That said federal law enforcement isn't doing so great a job at stopping 12 million illegal immigrants from coming here, has totally failed in their war on drugs, among a litany of other issues with federal law enforcement. Rebubs will also cite Waco and Ruby ridge and militarization and politicization of federal law enforcement as well.

How good of a job does the government do at running fire and emergency services? Do you agree that you can expect having no problems in getting emergency services if you pick up the phone and call upon them?

Never heard of a federal fire dept. around here. 90% of fire depts in the U.S. are local volunteer fire depts. As for federal emergency services FEMA, Katrina, nuff said

How good of a job does the government do at running the public highways? How do you drive to work everyday? Do you take it for granted without thinking about it that 99% of time the road you're driving on is always in reasonable to good condition?

The interstate highway system is a mess and in quite bad repair, bridges are collapsing, most new highways are now toll roads, many foreign owned and many are in traffic jams for long periods on the way to work. Highway funds are taken through taxes and held as blackmail against states over political policy. Again we're talking federal government here.

How good of a job does the government do at running public infrastructure? Step outside and smell the air. Do you smell any sewage? No? Who do you think is responsible for running sewage treatment plants? Turn on your taps. Is the water reaching your house's plumbing? Do you ever have to worry about this service reaching your house? No? Who do you think is responsible for running the services to install and maintain water mains?

Again the discussion is federal government. Local governments operate water and sewer, and many not very well. The EPA is involved in water treatment standards, which is a subject best left alone or nobody reading will look at their water the same way again. Coming from someone who has held a state health dept. license for water municipal water treatment.

Now what was that again about "the government never does a good job at running things"?

Now for my part I would put forward things like the FAA which does a very good job for the money, DOT does a reasonable job as do some others like the national weather service...

[HughMoran]

19. Yes, but they "approve" of those things

:eyes:

[newtothegame]

21. Waste of time. Let's use the site for its intended purpose.

Not as some desperate search for trolls.

[seattle_blue]

22. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Unless I'm mistaken, didn't the tyrannical, and oh so awful federal government get us to the moon?
The Post Office? You can send a letter from California to New York for .44 cents. Some may say that's too expensive, but name me a single service anywhere in the private sector that you can get for under a dollar. Under $20.00 for that matter.
I could go on for ever, but what's the use.....

[lonestarnot]

23. Case closed! :gavel: NEXT!

k & r!

[D23MIURG23]

25. Unfortunately the roads example doesn't really apply in MI.

But anyway, very good point, and a strong K&R.