Healthcare question for DUers in Canada, England, and France

[GoddessOfGuinness]

Are "illegal aliens" covered in your country's program?

[DesertFlower]

1. that's a good question.

i'm anxious to hear the answer.

[Oregone]

2. In Canada, not that Im aware

(depends on province)

Here, everyone must have a BC MSP CareCard (or pay out of pocket) to receive treatment. Conditions to get a CareCard are stringent, and the most lax Ive personally seen applies to those already under Refugee protection

Who is Eligible?

An individual must be a resident of B.C. in order to qualify for medical coverage under MSP. A resident is a person who meets all of the following conditions:

* must be a citizen of Canada or be lawfully admitted to Canada for permanent residence;
* must make his or her home in B.C.;
* must be physically present in B.C. at least 6 months in a calendar year; and
* dependents of MSP beneficiaries are eligible for coverage if they are residents of B.C.

Certain other individuals, such as some holders of study and/or work permits issued under the federal Immigration and Refugee Protection Act are deemed to be residents, but tourists or visitors to B.C. do not qualify. If you are uncertain about your eligibility status, contact MSP for assistance.

[depakid]

3. Not in Australia, either

The patient’s eligibility for Medicare as specified under the Commonwealth Health Insurance Act 1973. Persons eligible for Medicare include:

• A person who resides in Australia and whose stay in Australia is not subject to any limitation as to time imposed by law.

• Persons visiting Australia who are ordinarily resident in Finland, Italy, Malta, the Netherlands, New Zealand, the Republic of Ireland, Sweden, the United Kingdom or Norway as they are covered by reciprocal health care agreements (RHCA). However, persons from Malta and Italy are covered for six months only.

• A person or a class of persons declared eligible by the Commonwealth Minister of Health and Aged Care.

This category does not include a foreign diplomat or family (except where eligibility is expressly granted to such persons by the terms of a reciprocal health care agreement).

An asylum seeker who has a valid temporary entry visa and is an applicant for a protection visa and has either work rights or a spouse, parent or child who is a permanent Australian resident, is eligible to apply for a Medicare card and is therefore an eligible person once they have their Medicare card.

[Oregone]

4. Ive never heard of an RHCA before

Sounds awesome! Travel without expensive travel insurance. I wonder why Canada doesn't enter them

[depakid]

5. Yep- it's pretty cool, especially since a lot of people travel back and forth to and from the UK.

Didn't know Malta was a party. I mean, Crikey. Malta has universal health care and the US just keeps dicking around, harming their own citizens, businesses and dragging down their economy.

Small wonder that Canada and Australia outperform the United States on so many measures.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

17. Reciprocal healthcare agreements sound like a reasonable idea

It's interesting that none of the countries mentioned thus far offer medicare-type services to undocumented immigrants.

I wonder what makes the thugs think Obama's plan would cover them?

[Oregone]

20. Well there are a ton of illegal immigrants in the US and they are employed

If there is an employer mandate..ehg. Its a strange paradox created.

One of Obama's cost containment ideas is to get people treatment instead of sending them to the ER, but that wouldn't go for illegal immigrants (lord forbid he instead take profit out of insurance).

[Gwendolyn]

21. I don't think there are any universal countries that offer free services to illegal immigrants.

Canada doesn't, and the average out-of-pocket doctor's visit costs around $100-$120.

There are approximately 1 million illegal immigrants in Canada, who basically use emergency services for their needs. Same deal as the US.

There are also similar types of people as the US who complain that they're a drain on the system. In fact around the world, you'll have people complaining that immigrants, legal or not, are a drain on the system. People are the same wherever you go.

[SwissTony]

22. I suspect that in practice, the range of patients treated for free

is wider than the countries mentioned. I bumped into a Danish couple, one of whom had a nasty fall. Nothing dangerous but requiring some care and advice. She was seen at Darwin ER, patched up and sent on her way. No charge.

[polly7]

7. sorry ..... self delete.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

16. Someone else on this thread mentioned "tourist insurance"

I wonder if that's good throughout Canada.

Any idea how out-of-pocket costs compare to the US?

[Oregone]

19. Not sure. I think they are high

I mean, beyond my budget. My wife had to get some employment related medical checkups (not covered) and it was like $100 bucks a visit. I don't think its a good idea to just come up here and think you can afford everything. Probably better off getting cheap travel insurance, which is affordable enough.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

6. I can't speak to primary care, but hospitals don't seem to care

It is less trouble for them to say your a Canadian vagrant than to mess with a foreign travel insurance claim. I know a few Americans who got this treatment while visiting Canada even though they had travel insurance.

[cyclezealot]

8. France..

As long as you have a proper visa you can subscribe.. There is no reason to be uninsured . Even private insurance is comparatively affordable should you have a reasonable income.. French law requires everyone have medical insurance should you be here permanently. In fact , the local administrator does not want us to not subscribe to their national plan... She said, US insurers often don't pay their bills and without being in their system, we won't take full advantage of what their system has to offer in terms of preventative care.. Preventative care seems to be a big issue now with the outbreak of the potential bird flu epidemic. Heck . Here the government plan is not much more than a monthly electric bill.

[ejpoeta]

9. what does this say about US!! 'US insurers often don't pay their bills..."

why do we need insurance companies again??

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

10. Not in Italy... you must have a permesso di soggiorno

however, there are a few clinics here and there that will provide health care for nominal fees regardless of residency status.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

15. Interesting...

I wonder how the nominal fees compare to US doctor bills.

[riverbendviewgal]

11. In Ontario you need a OHIP card

I had an American friend who visited me and he broke his foot while here. He went to emergency room, had no visitors insurance and was treated. He was billed for his treatment.

As for illegals they may be treated unknowingly. I have been told that a counterfeit OHIP card is worth about $5000 US.
Fraud happens anywhere. I know as I was a fraud analyst.

[justgamma]

14. I love to know what they charged him.

My daughter broke her arm and the total bill was $14,400 just for the room she was in for 8 hours.

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. In England; no, but it seems to be up to a doctor to tell if someone's status is 'illegal' or not

From a medical professional periodical in 2003:

The following extract is taken from the Refugee Council website:

'Asylum applicants are not required to show official documentation when they register with a general practice. General practice staff have no right to demand to see an asylum seeker's passport or any other identity documentation. They can get the patient's address from a Home Office letter, bill or similar document addressed to the asylum applicant.

'If an asylum applicant is unable to register with a GP after a third attempt, they should be advised to contact their local primary care organisation, which can allocate a GP to them.'

Wessex LMCs believe a GP may, and probably should, ask any patient to demonstrate eligibility to NHS treatment before registering, provided this is applied equitably to all patients.

What is not permissible under racial discrimination legislation is to apply this criterion for registration selectively to applicants on the basis of colour or nationality.

The information on the Refugee Council website is helpful, but applies only to genuine refugees and asylum seekers who are entitled to free access to all NHS services. It doesnot apply to recently arrived illegal immigrants and NHS tourists who are notentitled to free access to the full range of NHS care.

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=4001968

Everyone born in the country gets an NHS number; if you move to England, you get one when you first register with a General Practitioner - http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1087.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=162 .

So a GP could decide that their policy is that anyone (as long as it is anyone, and not just decided on what country they came from, or a 'feeling' about their status) without an existing NHS number needs to show them proof of being a legal resident; or the GP could just accept any proof (eg an offical bill) that the patient lives in the GP's catchment area, as far as I can tell.

Everyone is entitled to emergency treatment; but that is defined fairly strictly, I think.

[buzzycrumbhunger]

13. I have a friend who broke her ankle in Ireland

. . . apparently, the Bloomsday festival got a bit wild (she's a serious Joyce fan and went specifically for this) and she managed to step off a curb badly. A hypochondriac anyway, she hypoventilated all the way to Casualty, thinking she had no insurance and no extra cash to pay the bill. They fixed her up and sent her on her way with nothing but good wishes and a fistful of Vicodan. I don't know if that was simply because of the occasion or if that's how they do things normally, but it made us all want to move to the UK on the spot.

Actually, I find myself wishing more and more that some kilted brute would swoop in and drag me off to the Highlands because it certainly hasn't gotten any better here in the interim--and especially now that the "change" we voted for appears to be on track to take another age to come to pass.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

18. Didn't mean to exclude those from other countries with gov't sponsored healthcare...

I'd appreciate feedback from any and all.