2 Marine Generals Take Cheney to Woodshed-"We Must Repudiate His Dangerous Ideas & Scare Tactics"

[kpete]

By Scott Horton
September 11, 9:44 AM
Two Marine Generals Take Cheney to the Woodshed

Former Marine Corps Commandant Charles Krulak and former CENTCOM Commander-in-Chief Joseph Hoar have a word for former Vice President Dick Cheney and his advocacy of torture. It’s “irresponsible.” Here’s what they have to say in a joint op-ed published today in the Miami Herald:

We never imagined that we would feel duty-bound to publicly denounce a vice president of the United States, a man who has served our country for many years. In light of the irresponsible statements recently made by former Vice President Dick Cheney, however, we feel we must repudiate his dangerous ideas — and his scare tactics. . .

In an interview with Fox News Sunday, Cheney applauded the “enhanced interrogation techniques”–what we used to call “war crimes” because they violated the Geneva Conventions, which the United States instigated and has followed for 60 years. Cheney insisted the abusive techniques were “absolutely essential in saving thousands of American lives and preventing further attacks against the United States.” He claimed they were “directly responsible for the fact that for eight years, we had no further mass casualty attacks against the United States. It was good policy . . . It worked very, very well.”

Repeating these assertions doesn’t make them true. We now see that the best intelligence, which led to the capture of Saddam Hussein and the elimination of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, was produced by professional interrogations using noncoercive techniques. When the abuse began, prisoners told interrogators whatever they thought would make it stop. Torture is as likely to produce lies as the truth. And it did. . .

The Bush Administration had already degraded the rules of war by authorizing techniques that violated the Geneva Conventions and shocked the conscience of the world. Now Cheney has publicly condoned the abuse that went beyond even those weakened standards, leading us down a slippery slope of lawlessness. Rules about the humane treatment of prisoners exist precisely to deter those in the field from taking matters into their own hands. They protect our nation’s honor.

more:
http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/other-views/story/1227832.html
http://harpers.org/archive/2009/09/hbc-90005683

[Ikonoklast]

1. These are men that served at the point of the spear, for many years.

And Cheney spent his earlier life avoiding such responsibilty at all costs.


Big kick and rec.

[Forkboy]

2. If only that subject line wasn't a metaphor.

[ensho]

3. kicking

nt

[PearliePoo2]

4. Wow...these guys have big brass ones.

They are basically calling the former VP a liar and a war criminal. This is big big stuff. Especially for military officers.
Huge rec and kick.

[gratuitous]

9. *Fomer* military officers

They have their pensions all safely tucked away, and Dick Cheney is no longer in a position to dictate military policy. But they are bravely locking the barn door while the herd merrily gallops away, there's no question about that.

[ShortnFiery]

12. Even former AD General Officers catch flack. ... In a worst case scenario ...

it still provides valuable clout. Retired Generals have close ties with the Active Duty military communities - they have influence.

[PearliePoo2]

13. Not positive here but I think they will always be officers and hold their rank...

but now they are in the retired ranks and not "active".
As far as I know, when you are an officer, whether active or retired, regs. prevent you from criticizing the CIC. Not sure if that extends to the VP as well. (?)
Punishment may extend to the stripping of your retirement check.
If this is true and they were to pen this article while active duty, they could be punished.
An alternative of course, would be to resign in disgust when this was happening, suffer the consequences and look themselves in the mirror when they shaved each morning.

[gratuitous]

14. I'd bet a $50 donation to DU

I'd bet a $50 donation to DU that these men are safe from any rank or pension repercussions for this op-ed. Maybe writing this will help them look in the mirror when they shave. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people dead or disappeared from the time they were in the active service due directly to the country and its policies they were serving. The teevee tells me every day what a brave and courageous bunch of people our men and women in uniform are; but writing 350 words five years too late doesn't look all that brave and courageous. I know people who went to jail over this, in real time, and I'm a little ashamed I wasn't one of them.

I guess risking one's military career is a lot to ask. But a hero wouldn't think twice about it. I don't know what the calculus was for these men, but weighed in the balance, I'd say they come up wanting.

[PearliePoo2]

15. I think you're right.

Now that Boots and Darth are no longer in office,(as their current CIC) these guys don't risk losing anything. IMO, they lost their honor years ago when they could have spoken up and had an influence. Colin Powell too.
What did they do when this was going on? Stare at their shoes?

[Subdivisions]

20. They followed orders.

Is it honorable to disobey an order in certain cases? I was, unfortunately, never in the military but I was under the impression that you follow your CO's orders. Period. Are they to blame for blindly following orders? If I had been in their position, I don't know that I could.

[eomer]

26. Unlawful orders?

My understanding is that they are not required to follow unlawful orders and that the claim that they were only following orders is not a defense that can be used if what they did as a result was a crime.

Some famous examples of trying the "following orders" defense and having it rejected are Lt. Calley's court-martial and the Nuremberg trials.

That's the legal side of it. Is there honor in following unlawful orders that amount to war crimes? I don't think so.

Superior officers who put their charges in the position of having to decide whether to follow an unlawful order do them the greatest possible disservice, if you ask me.

[bertman]

16. Once retired and inactive, the only thing these officers cannot do is reveal secrets that

are classified information. Upon retirement they become citizens just like you and I, and are free to speak and do as they please.

[bertman]

17. They are only the latest in a long line of retired general-grade officers who have said this.

If we had a functioning media, instead of a corporate propaganda machine, we would be hearing about this on a regular basis.

Thank you, Generals, for your support for the rule of law.

Recommend.

[ShortnFiery]

11. My husband and I are a successful ...

USMC-Army marriage over 27 years.

I tease my spouse, who is a retired Marine Corps officer that "the Marines are the Navy's helpers" ... in response, I receive a lot of bravado from him and his buddies. We met when we were newly commissioned and stationed at one of those inter-service Officer Training Schools for "intelligence." :blush: Although I can attest to the belief that my *first love* will always be The Army, those in The Marine Corps are seemingly much more intense, in a good way, about DUTY, HONOR, COUNTRY.

Also recall that it was a retired Marine General who resigned as Bush's Middle-East envoy and openly spoke out against the invasion of Iraq - BEFORE THE FACT.

http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/zinni.html



Count me proud, but not surprised that it is Marine Corps General Officers who have the moral courage to speak out.

Semper Fi Generals - you do your service proud :patriot:

... and the Navy is lucky to have you - not the other way around. :silly:

[barbtries]

5. an excellent piece

i hope it is read far and wide.

[G_j]

6. K&R!

[Peacetrain]

7. Amazing..

[horseshoecrab]

8. K&R!!! n/t

[Vidar]

10. I applaud the Generals.

[JimWis]

18. K&R

[Overseas]

19. K&R

With the hope that more and more generals come forward.

[Martin Eden]

21. Their op-ed denouncing Cheney was an act of PATRIOTISM

... and pretty much sums up the brand of "patriotism" practiced by Cheney and his cohorts.

[Trillo]

22. Thank you, Sir. Thank you also, Sir.

n/t

[lpbk2713]

23. It's good to see top brass speak out for a change.

It's been a long dry spell.

[Senator]

24. Hey Obama .... Listen To The Generals

And start to abide by and enforce the laws and treaty obligations our greater generations fought and died to forge.

---

[Hekate]

25. KnR for their patriotism

:patriot:

[Douglas Carpenter]

27. kick and recommended for the truth !!!!

[Solly Mack]

28. K&R

[SpiralHawk]

29. "Sneer." - xVP Dickie 'Five-Military Deferments' Cheney (R)

"My five freaking military deferments make me more qualified (in the eyes of other Republicon Homelander Chickenhawks) to start an Oil-Profits Torture Crusade than these, sneer, lowly Generals. Sneer."

- xVP Dickie 'Five-Military Deferments' Cheney (R)

[Brigid]

30. "Tell it to the Marines."

I am so proud to be a former Marine right now. :patriot: