*IF* a bill WITHOUT a public option is signed into law, would my outrage be ok?

[LaydeeBug]

I posted a similar Op before, and promised to keep an open mind, but now that Pelosi is stepping back from the public option, again, already my painful compromise from single payer, someone please, please talk me back from the ledge.

[fascisthunter]

1. If it Happenes, I will know corporate Fascism in entrenched in the Democratic Party

[BlooInBloo]

2. Just jump. Just about everyone else here has.

[Buzz Clik]

5. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. (rinsing is optional)

[LaydeeBug]

7. Not yet. I just wanna know, how far should we compromise with a party that is giving up nothing.

and it be OK for us to NOT do anything about it.

[BlooInBloo]

13. Ah. Pre-whine whine. That's a new one. +10 for creativity.

[LaydeeBug]

19. I'm wondering how this contributes to the discussion other than to say, "Ah, pre asshole assholery"

nice.

[HughMoran]

25. No, he's right

These "If" this then the "world will explode" threads are so numerous as to make this site dreadfully tiresome and depressing.

[LaydeeBug]

No, he's wrong, and so are you. Distorting my words does not marginalize my position

if you think that "talk me down from the ledge means "world will explode". I didn't ask you to substitute your judgement for mine, thanks.

Please post your disdain for "world will explode" threads on threads that ACTUALLY say the world will explode.

[HughMoran]

29. Well, that's a lame argument

As if you can't differentiate between a metaphor and the literal spoken word.

Fail.

[BlooInBloo]

36. It's fun watching the intellectual dishonesty of people deliberately trading on ambiguity, though.

[LaydeeBug]

37. It's fun being accused of intellectual dishonesty by pre asshole assholery types.

My argument was neither incorrect nor dishonest.

Epic Fail.

[LaydeeBug]

38. No it's not, but your reference

to differentiate between spoken word and metaphor is LAUGHABLE,given this medium.

But thanks for chimin' in with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of worth.

[Skink]

3. They're discussing the amount of the fines now.

[Buzz Clik]

4. You need approval? Why?

Will you be outraged if the public option was available to the uninsured and no one else?

Will you be outraged if the public option was available to everyone but you?

[vi5]

6. From what I've been told....

..we're supposed to just shrug our shoulders, and apparently rejoice in happiness that democrats aren't marching in unified lockstep.

So to sum up, I'm supposed to be o.k. with people in the US continuing to get poor healthcare and going bankrupt becaus of illnesses and insurance company pockets being lined, because it means that the democratic party is chock full of a cornucopia of differing opinions and beliefs.

[Richardo]

8. Your feelings are your feelings - it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks is 'ok'

I'd judge the bill in its entirety, not just based on whether one aspect was included or not. But that's just me.

[LaydeeBug]

10. My feelings aren't the point, but I you should have known that...

if they just eliminate pre-existing, no public option, THIS is the best we could do?

[stillrockin]

9. Yes. This plan is a big wet kiss to insurance cartel.

[joeycola]

12. yes, it is at this point.

[valerief]

11. Hey, why shouldn't the insurance companies make oodles of $$$ off taxpayers just like the banks?

:sarcasm:

[LaydeeBug]

24. I know!! I feel like, elevens. WHY on earth should we bother to protect profiteering?

series

[nashville_brook]

14. your outrage, if directed at anyone with a (D) by their name, is NOT OK under any circumstances

you WILL stomp your feet and cheer with the loudest cheerleaders on this internet discussion board or else suffer the consequences of cyber-pariah status!!! who do you think you are, anyway?

you... you... FREETHINKER!!

shut up and drink the KOOL-AID already.



:evilgrin:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

15. I'm on that ledge too

[LaydeeBug]

28. welcome. I'll hang until the last dog dies, that what' we're s'posed to do. nt

[dionysus]

16. ask that question when the bill gets passed without a public option.

[LaydeeBug]

26. on this I concede. There is no bill signed as of yet, and I am *trying* to keep the faith

but we have ALREADY compromised from single payer and WE CONTROL THE HOUSES. If they can't do it now, the repigs might as well win.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Outraged just because the politicians sold you to the insurance companies? How dare you!

[LaydeeBug]

21. That is how I am starting to feel, but this could be political theatre

but if this gets marched back from a robust public option because some repig who would never vote for it anyway made a turd in the punchbowl, I will be pissed. The turd loving repig won't capitulate anyway so why bother? *I'm* not drinking that punch with repig turds in it, and I don't think you should have to either.

[damntexdem]

18. Sure thing!

Hell, if a bill is passed WITH a public option but not making it accessible to all, or if there are other horrid provisions, you're welcome to be outraged anyway, despite the PO.

[WeDidIt]

20. I would at least like to see a triggered PO

Getting a trigger removed later will be easier than insreting a PO later.

I'd rather see a PO now, but I don't see how we convince even one of these Senators to come down on the side of the PO:

Pryor
Lincoln
Landrieu
Nelson
NElson
Conrad
Baucus
Carper
Lieberman
Bayh

Got any ideas on how to get even one? Keep in mind we need two to insure we get past the fact that Byrd won't vote for it in reconciliation on principle.

[LaydeeBug]

22. a triggered PO? Jesus H Christ on a cracker, WHAT ON EARTH did THEY give up?

triggered by what? books they'll cook anyway? :banghead:

[WeDidIt]

32. The idea is get a triggered PO now

then remove the trigger later.

That's easier than getting a full blown public option later.

If we can get a full blow PO now, great, but I'm just not seeing it happen in the Senate.

[LaydeeBug]

41. The idea of a trigger now to be removed later is just kicking the can down the road

[BzaDem]

42. I would MUCH rather kick the can slightly down the road than destroy the can for a generation.

If we don't pass anything, it will probably take a decade or two to get back our current majorities with a president like Obama. Then we will be right back to today. If we pass something, that gives us a huge opportunity to change it later. One major reason this is so hard is because it is such a large bill that opponents can find many tiny issues and exploit them. It will be much harder to do this for something so technical (such as "removing a trigger").

[LaydeeBug]

43. I'd rather they use the letter of the law and pass real reform instead of corporate reach arounds

We need fifty. We have fifty. Real Reform. Do it for the skipper. Mind you, I have ALREADY COMPROMISED from single payer. What has the other side conceded?

[LaydeeBug]

23. Oh, and how about we don't NEED them with reconciliation, and you know it. Biden has a vote if we

need him, and you know that too.

[earth mom]

27. Your outrage is not ok on DU. But in the real world, I'm sure there are millions & millions

who are furious right now. I know I am. :grr:

p.s. What could anyone expect from Pelosi-the woman who took Impeachment off the table? Or any of the corporatist powers that be in Washington DC?! :argh:

[Old Hob]

30. I can't wait to see the PO eligibility criteria. I'm sure I'll meet it...

:sarcasm:

[natrat]

31. but but obama made such a dazzling speach...everything will be ok kids,he said so

[Ikonoklast]

33. If you might be set on fire one day, will you feel the pain now?

Getting outraged over hypotheticals is an exercise in futility.

[TheWatcher]

34. So is putting blind faith in pretty speeches.

[Ikonoklast]

35. Blind faith?

Or blind opposition? Who would you say is the bigger fool?

I'll take the man on faith.
It's why I voted for him.

And you voted for...?

[LaydeeBug]

39. Since there is no "blind opposition"...he SAID the things we oppose

The election is over. Now our work begins.

[LaydeeBug]

40. so is snark in the face of rational discussion.

and you know it