I am no psychiatrist or psychologist but...

[kentuck]

it was not normal behavior for someone to jump up and shout "You lie!" under the circumstances and environment that Joe Wilson was in the other night. I would guess that this was not an isolated incident of this type of behavior by Mr Wilson. Someone with that lack of control has a problem somewhere else in his life. When asked if he had "lost it" by a reporter, Mr Wilson was quick and defensive with his response. No, he said. It was a lie and he just felt like he had to respond at that moment. Of course, he was sorry later.

But this was a danger signal if I have ever seen one. I don't know if he is presently married or not? But, I wonder if he is an abuser? This is just my opinion and has no professional backing. But, I have been around long enough to know a lot about human nature.

[BoneDaddy]

1. Not defending the guy

but calling out "you lie" does not necessarily mean you have a compulsive disorder or anything diagnosible, but then again he is a politician so there may be something there. He was just showboating and being rude.

[DCKit]

15. Unless he actually doesn't have any control over himself.

The seething rage, frustration, feeling of impotence and insecurity, willful ignorance, superiority complex, hubris, nationalism (as opposed to patriotism), a big fat dose of hatred (and a small penis) and you've got personal problems.

And that's just the Republican women.

[rhett o rick]

27. You ought to be ashamed. lol nt

[Posteritatis]

29. ... The guy next to her looks like his head's about to explode. (nt)

[elehhhhna]

45. That's our TX 22 Pete Olson, a real asshat, who has Delay's old seat.

http://olson.house.gov/index.html

[BoneDaddy]

36. wow projection, a psychological term, is strong in you

sad really

[DCKit]

46. Lest you thought I was going to let you go on feeling all superior...

you are wrong.I could have gone on for days on their issues and problems in regards to sexuality alone, but that would have been in poor taste, inappropriate and harmful to everyone's mental health.

Scan any of the still pictures of the Republican side of the house during Obama's speech, and tell me in which of them is any of the emotions or states of mind I wrote of NOT on display.

You are projecting FAIL.

[snagglepuss]

42. LOLOL nt

[CitizenLeft]

43. ROTFL!

[virgogal]

2. Good lord,it's over !!!! eom

[polichick]

3. I think he's got a big problem - but he wasn't sorry later...

...and he will never be. These guys don't know guilt or honor.

[wryter2000]

4. What a SC Dem Congressman said about him

He's overall a confrontational kind of guy. The Dem said he scheduled his first town hall about 10 miles from the Dem's house in the high school the Dem's kid went to.

It sounds as if he got stubborn with other Rs who told him to appologize. I've heard that from several sources. If he drinks, I'd imagine he gets into fights.

[vixengrl]

5. It's not isolated at all--

he called Strom Thurmond's biracial daughter a liar who was smearing his memory, and he called someone out for lying about Saddam Hussein acquiring chemical weapons from the US, which I think everyone pretty much knows is true.

Seems like if Wilson calls someone a liar, they must be telling the truth.

[Posteritatis]

6. Yay! Let's continue equating "psych problems" with "conservative!" (nt)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

7. He didn't "jump up" -

he called out, and if you don't understand that it was all planned, a choreographed GOPig scenario designed to "break" Obama, as has been their stated goal, you've got watch what's happening a bit more closely.

Please.

Armchair psychobabble is worthless...........................

[kentuck]

9. I have seen photos of him standing and sitting..

but I anticipated your response. If this psychobabble is so worthless, why do you even respond??

[Tangerine LaBamba]

18. The photos of him standing

are from another time, another event. He remained seated, and the Congressmen on either side of him looked not at all surprised that he was shouting out. He did extend his arm, and point a finger, perhaps in anticipation of people not knowing to whom his shout was directed.

You anticipated my response? Really?

I'm touched.

And still you posted your theory.

That's excellent, and I'm very glad I didn't disappoint you. How strange to "anticipate" a response from anyone when posting anything on a message board!

I responded as others did, because what you posted was inane. Something that batshit goofy needs to be addressed, especially when it begins with such a funny disclaimer and then then blasts full speed ahead. How could anyone resist? Others found it just as entertaining as I did. Did you anticipate their responses, too?

Because, if you did, you knew that what you were posting was silly, but you went ahead and did it. Now, THAT's funny....................

[kentuck]

28. I suppose it did serve a purpose?

It brought out the "experts".

[Tangerine LaBamba]

30. It brought out others who took issue with your

unfounded conclusion, and it, perhaps, will keep others from making the error you made in deciding that one action, one you didn't even accurately witness, meant mental illness.....................

[kentuck]

32. I never said mental illness...

you did. So we only saw him sitting when the camera was on him. I will admit that is correct. What words exactly did you take as meaning he had a "mental illness"?? Speaking of jumping to conclusions.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

33. You didn't use those words,

but your post left wide open the inference that he was troubled, had issues, maybe was an abuser, all sorts of things that, separately and/or together, would lead to the inference that a pathology was in play.

Words means a lot, sometimes more than you might have intended, but in the case of your OP, your intent was pretty clear, and no amount of trying to shift ownership for what you wrote changes the fact that they were your words, your ideas, and your responsibility........................

[kentuck]

41. I take responsibility for my words.

Do you take responsibility for yours? You say, "...all sorts of things that, separately and/or together, would lead to the inference that a pathology was in play." What kind of pathology would that be? It was no inference. If you are saying it is my opinion that the guy has problems, yes that is what I am saying. In your almighty expertise, you do not think that is true. Is that your opinion or accumulated knowledge? I disagree with the opinion that he is "fearful" of losing something or that his reaction was "normal". I disagree with you.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

47. I have no idea what kind of pathology

was the object of the implication, and I doubt you do, either. It was wide open in your OP, though, that there was something wrong with him, that he never would have delivered that crass outburst if he didn't have an underlying problem or set of problems.

So, you understood what I said - that you were implying that he had a problem or a set of problems (a set of problems is a pathology).

His reaction was normal within the context that it was a choreographed setup by the GOPigs in Congress. If you saw the guy from Texas, Gohmert, with the hand-printed sign, and the other members who had alleged copies of some kind of "bill" that they were waving over their heads during the speech, I think you'd agree with me and others who smelled a rat.

My "almighty expertise" - got an issue, do you? - comes from years in Washington, working on the Hill and knowing how things are done there, from having a graduate degree in clinical psychology, and from good old-fashioned experience in how politics works.

I have no idea what your penultimate sentence means, but you surely are not quoting me. I have no idea what you're disagreeing with there, but it certainly isn't me.

You think Wilson has problems, and I say he's just a good little soldier, doing what his Party bosses told him to do. To infer any kind of "problem" he might have personally from what he did on the floor of the House the other night is just beyond the pale................................

[kentuck]

48. I am sorry Tangerine.

I was quoting another psychologist in the thread that had a totally different opinion from you or I. What types of "problems" create a pathology? Are we talking mental problems or problems with drugs or family or money? Or any "problems"? That seems to be a rather generic term?

I tend to agree with your scenario or reading of the situation moreso than the other "expert" that posted, for what it is worth? I don't think I am alone in thinking that Mr Wilson may have had a "problem", judging from his reaction on the floor?

Gail Collins, in today's NY Times had a similar take on the matter: "Perhaps that’s why they like Joe Wilson. (His actual name is Addison Graves Wilson Sr. Where do the Republicans find all these faux Joes?) After his outburst, he explained that he had been so furious when the president said illegal immigrants would not be covered by the health care reform bill that he “let my emotions get the best of me.”

This does not seem like a great excuse. Wouldn’t you rather admit it was a plan than say you had so little self-control that hearing the president make a frequently stated claim about a much-debated bill caused you to create a spectacle on national TV? Obviously, this is not a guy you want to let in the room if Hugo Chávez ever comes to town."

[Tangerine LaBamba]

49. Of course Wilson's lying -

he was poised to yell out from the moment he entered that chamber. It was a set-up, without question. And I very seriously doubt that this is the guy who has ever done anything spontaneous - a military man from 'way back, he and his self control are, I think, probably better honed than the average Joe's.

He's just a liar, that's all.

(A pathology, by the way, is nothing but a collection of symptoms - can be emblematic of anything - but it's just an assemblage - like the behaviors that comprise, say, pedophilia - you have certain identifiable traits, and you can call them a pathology - see?)

[kentuck]

50. I agree he is a liar...

But don't you think his yelling out in such a way was out of the "normal" curve we studied in Psychology 101?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

51. Not if you put it in its proper context -

which is "theater."

He was just an actor, doing his line...................

[kentuck]

52. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense...

Did they draw straws or was he the only one with the cajones to interrupt in such a way? I will with hold judgment to see how it plays out over the next few days. Some Democrats want to censure him in front of Congress. It is obvious that his "apology" was insincere, in my opinion.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

53. The Democrats better give him a beating

on the floor of the House. If they don't, it's going to make it perfectly legitimate for others to do the same - or worse.

I wondered that myself, too - drawing straws came mind, proving, once again, that great minds do, indeed, think alike. ;)

Given that he's from SC, I imagine he was a natural for the role. BUT, I'm wondering how many blacks make up his district, and how much damage he's done to himself.

I saw tonight that another group - a black group of some kind, the details escape me, sorry - has pulled out of having their annual meeting in South Carolina.

THAT's the kind of stuff that needs to happen, and Pelosi needs to come down on this fool like Maxwell's Silver Hammer if she's going to retain any semblance of authority................................

[kentuck]

54. Especially since he has shown his apology was totally insincere....

and since many of his Republican accessories have said it was a bad thing for him to do, the Democrats should bring the hammer down on him, I would agree. :-)

[Posteritatis]

22. One reason it's worthless...

...is that it's generally very acceptable on DU to dismiss real mental problems along political lines or worse, and that most of the psychobabble Tangerine is reacting to tends to perpetuate that.

I've seen any number of people here claim with a straight face that Republicans have a monopoly on mental illness, or that someone who blundered into the news because of something they did while off their medication or the like is clearly conservative. I've seen any number of people decide that it's a sign of intrinsic criminality, or that it's a monolithic, untreatable, just-lock-them-away thing. I've seen a few very heated threads in which the wilfully clueless or the it's-all-just-conservatism-anyway crowd actually attack or sneer at people with real problems for being weak enough to get treatment for them.

That goes beyond "worthless" and into "dangerous" territory for me. People have enough difficulty getting help as it stands without people calling them weak, or pressuring them into not doing so, or calling for their confinement, or dismissing them as political enemies because of it. Every post like yours, deciding that because a conservative did something loud they must be insane or something, just perpetuates those mindsets and makes it that much harder for people to discuss a real problem intelligently. That's enough of a problem on DU, where views on mental illness are kind of stuck in the early 1960s - or the early 1930s on bad days.

[kentuck]

26. I apologize if anyone was offended by my words.

kentuck

[Tangerine LaBamba]

34. Apology accepted...........

[Brickbat]

8. You're right. You're not a psychiatrist or a psychologist. Sometimes an asshole is just an asshole.

[kentuck]

10. And what would you call these folks that support this "asshole"?

Some with $200,000 worth of contributions to his next campaign.

[Brickbat]

13. Republicans. Maybe assholes. People who think he's doing the right thing.

[kentuck]

14. But supporters of an asshole, anyway?

Right?

[Brickbat]

16. Uh.....yeah?

[deaniac21]

11. He's still tense about his wife being outed as a CIA agent.

[theoldman]

12. I like your sense of humor.

If we don't learn to laugh about this we will end up crying.

[nolabear]

17. I am, and it's not diagnosable from that incident.

This is not a professional assessment, just an opinion from someone who's studied human psychology and behavior a lot. I think that he has the same deep-seated fears that the old people in town halls have, fear of loss of control over his environment (white, conservative) and fear of loss of power (white, up-and-coming, Republican, "strongest country on earth," etc.), qualities shared by conservatives---that's what they're trying to conserve, security and control, both of which are badly challenged by Obama. Get them all together and they whip one another up, reinforce their identities as a pack and do things they'd never do if they didn't think the pack, or party, was behind them. It's actually very "normal" to do what he did, it's just tipping his hand, I think. Mob mentality. Happens all the time. You'd hope politicians would be above it, but they're not. At least, the frightened ones are not.

[Laelth]

19. Interesting. Thanks. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Adsos Letter]

20. excellent response, and right on the mark, imho.

[kentuck]

21. A quote from post #7 above..

"Armchair psychobabble is worthless..........................."

:-)

[Posteritatis]

23. It's rather less "armchair psychobabble" when it's an actual psychologist talking. (nt)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

31. Not that it's especially relevant,

but I have a graduate degree in clinical psychology.

That OP was perfect "armchair psychobabble," as I see it..................

[nolabear]

37. Well, I did say it was an opinion, not an assessment, but

my definition of "psychobabble" is when you throw about terms like "co-dependent" or "victim" or "enabler" without taking the individual or the milieu into consideration. I deliberately stayed away from pat terminology, out of respect for both you guys and for Joe Wilson, who, no matter how horrid a thing he did, did it for a reason (and I don't mean he has a "good excuse," to use what I think of as a psychobabble term).

Fear is a terrible thing. We'll do anything to alleviate it. WHAT we do is determined by lots of factors, and sometimes, in my opinion, what we do determines whether we should be in positions of leadership and responsibility.

[kentuck]

38. I don't believe Joe Wilson was fearful of anything.

Does that mean I am wrong and you are right? I was also only giving an opinion. What words in my post would lead one to think he was "mentally ill"??

[Toucano]

24. It was a publicity stunt. He didn't lose control.

It appears to be working out quite nicely for him.

[Hannah Bell]

25. another armchair psychiatrist, seeking to reduce all deviant (by their lights) human behavior to

"mental illness".

you guys should form a union.

[woo me with science]

35. Stupidest post of the day. nt

[Juche]

39. Entitlement is a huge problem among white conservatives

Right wingers have a huge, huge, sense of entitlement. It makes them extremely spoiled and angry in some ways. The media isn't allowed to criticize them, nobody is allowed to call them liars, Obama and Sotomayor are racist (but they are not).

They want to be able to threaten the president's life, but the don't want to be called on it. When Palin's speeches were resulting in increased death threats to the president, nobody did anything. But when Obama called Palin a liar (because she lied) she started whining.

You can't win with these people. They want to be able to start riots and encourage assassination, but if they lie while they are doing it they don't want to be called liars.

[kentuck]

40. You have to call 'em the way you see 'em...

Someone made the point tonight on Bill Maher that there had to be balance no matter if one side is telling the truth and the other side is outright lying, paraphrasing.

[saltpoint]

44. I don't have the clinical inside track on Wilson or anybody else, but

my hunch is that most people aren't raised to behave like cretinous lunkheads.

Wilson's behavior has historical precedent, but that does not excuse his conduct. Obama's comment on what his proposal covers was in fact demonstrably true; Wilson's denouncing Obama as a liar is factually unsound as well as socially crude.

There are a lot of people in Wilson's district and in South Carolina generally who would do better under the president's proposal for reform of their health care versus the inadequate and lopsided status quo Wilson appears to want to defend.

If Wilson is not really defending anything and in fact was just grandstanding to subvert the president's goals for the sport of subverting the president's goals, then his behavior is even less excusable.

Very poor form by Congressman Wilson, any way ya stack it.

[Lagomorph]

55. Just watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFBhceg6ooY

With all the money they're making, C-Span may become PPV.