President Obama is to be commended for...

[truedelphi]

The President needs to be commended for doing a very difficult job without the benefit of any Mainstream Media criticism on his health care reform stance. Yes the M$M lies about what the effects of real health care reform would be. But they do not bother to parse the more important statements that Obama has made. So I will do that here.

For instance, if you watched him last year, he said that Single Payer Universal Heatlh Care for ALL was the best solution. Great statement, there, Mr Prez to be. (Citation -www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE )

He said that we would not get SPUHC overnight, but that it would require a majority in the House and Senate and a Dem in the Oval Office. HE ALSO MADE NUMEROUS STATEMENTS WHEN RUNNING to the effect that the American People needed a change from business as usual - that no more lobbyist controlled legislation. Numerous times he said this, but those are statements he has forgotten.

Then he WENT ON TO SAY, "But since we are not starting from scratch, we have to work within the system we already have." WHAT? WTF?!?

Do you tell someone who is driving around in an unsafe car that gets horrible gas mileage, that cannot pass the local smog law tests and that is ugly to boot that they have to stay in that car?

The media, which has interviewed every single living numb skull within four hundred miles of a major network's office, and reported on such things as Obama not having a valid birth certificate, etc. somehow have never found time to parse the President's stupidity in saying this.

Just how much lunacy is there when one says "I have found the perfect solution, and now I am working on reform, but I must stick with what we have, even though what we have DOESN'T WORK and is more expensive, as we will see to it that it will be slightly modified."

We are so screwn. Both the President and our Corporate media are only beholden to the Corporatocracy. SCREWN SCREWN SCREWN.



One more citation: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjgjE1a32rE&NR=1

Universal Single Payer Health Care For all NOW!!

[BlooInBloo]

1. Ah - a cute new way to bitch and moan about Obama...

Whining encased in a complimentary Trojan Horse - *Very* nice!

Kudos on your brainstorming session - you people have come up with some very nice new ways to complain about Obama.

[truedelphi]

3. Well thank you, Bloo in Bloo

At least you refrained from calling me a liar.

[bobbolink]

46. What? The bloo Wilson was MIA?

Hey, it kicked your post, right?

:rofl:

[truedelphi]

56. Okay Okay I need a kick from time to time.

But I'll take good kicks and bad kicks if it gets us some

UNIVERSAL SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE FOR ALL!

[bobbolink]

57. That's what I like about you.... sacrificing for the good of all!

:hug:

[omega minimo]

12. It's okay BlooInBloo, there's a Booster Rah Rah thread with brazillion Recs topping Greatest

for you and all the cozy wooly black and white thinkers.

Musn't let reality intrude on cheerleading. :woohoo:

[BlooInBloo]

17. It's all good - I enjoy creativity.

[omega minimo]

19. How do you feel about

balance? :think:

[BlooInBloo]

20. Just for balance's sake? Meh.

[omega minimo]

22. LOL

:eyes:

[treestar]

42. Isn't the purpose of cheerleading

to boost the team on to victory?

What did you do at your high school football games? Stand on the sidelines and boo your own team?

There is a line to be drawn here. You're the one thinking black and white.

[omega minimo]

59. Politics is not football

If more people realized that, they'd be more informed about issues, rather than fixated on teams.

[deaniac21]

2. I like gettin' screwn on saturday nights!

[truedelphi]

9. You do suggest a good way to spend Sat nites -

Better than my Sat nites with the TV have been lately.

[DinahMoeHum]

4. IMO, when he said "not starting from scratch. . .", he meant

that there's no real need to re-invent the wheel, we already have a structure for single payer/public option in Medicare.

Personally, I'd just expand Medicare's eligibility to include everybody. But that's just my 2 cents.

:shrug:

[truedelphi]

7. You may well be right, but I have had numerous

Democratic Party loyalists tell me that it meant as I defined it in my OP.

I was trying to make sense out of it. I hope you are right. And I really dislike that he remains the most ambiguous charismatic person I have ever encountered.

[Romulox]

5. It's why Obama's pitch is so weak: "There is CRISIS, but we must not upset the apple cart."

Does not compute.

[truedelphi]

6. Thanks Romulox.

It really doesn't compute.

[Romulox]

8. He also said on Tues. that he wanted to be the last President to work on the issue.

So he comes out, admits his plan is not the one he would choose given his druthers, then claims he will be the last President to work on the matter?

It's like a house of cards with a bowling ball roof! It just doesn't stand up.

[Skittles]

23. it not only doesn't stand up

it doesn't pass the smell test

[BlooInBloo]

14. It computes just fine...

Better metaphor: When the boat you're sailing on gets a hole, it's perfectly reasonable to conclude that you don't have the luxury of building a whole new boat on the spot - you're in the middle of the lake. Plugging the hole computes perfectly fine - even though everybody involved might very well agree that a new boat would be awesome.

If one wants to simply disagree with Obama, that it *would* in fact be preferable to toss all the passengers in the water, and let them tread water, while people build a new boat on the spot (in the water), that's fine (back to the case of health care, a 1/2 decent argument could be made for doing so). But to say Obama view doesn't *make sense* is just false. It makes sense.

I agree with you about "the last President to take it up", though.

[ihavenobias]

10. I know Rep. Weiner, Hartmann and others have suggested it.

So why not an option to buy into Medicare? Based on the arguments I've read, it's actually EASIER to pass politically because it's much more difficult to make up lies about an existing program that millions of people are happy with.

[truedelphi]

13. Naw the Democratic

Leadership would and could mess that up somehow. It might involve another forty two days spent on the road allowing the Right Wing nut jobs to frame the debate. And once the RW frames the debate, there wuil be plenty of lies about Medicare.

How can you tell if a RW nut job is lying? Because their lips are moving.

[bobbolink]

47. There's no making logical sense of it, is there?

Easier politically---the Medicare Part E would be a political hammer!

It would save money-- a political hammer!

I could go on, but what's the use... the Dems don't want a hammer.... That's the only conclusion I can come to.

[earth mom]

11. Thom Hartman said it best: "Health Insurance Industry = Organized Crime".

Check out it out here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x369404


TD-Good post, btw! :thumbsup:

NGU!

[truedelphi]

18. Liking the Hartmann quote. Thaks! n/t

[Toucano]

32. +1

[omega minimo]

15. Rec +4 - What you said!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6515162&mesg_id=6515162

[truedelphi]

16. You pickin' on Homeland Security now?

Are you suggesting that we don't need those 23 dollar an hour shoe and foot sniffing agents at the Airports?

Anyway good to see you

:hi:

[omega minimo]

21. Ja!!!

Der Homeland Uber Alles!!

[babylonsister]

24. Without m$m criticism? You're either joking or living in a dream world. nt

[truedelphi]

25. Apparently you skipped sentences two and three and four

Yes the M$M lies about what the effects of real health care reform would be. But they do not bother to parse the more important statements that Obama has made. So I will do that here.


I made sure that no one could accuse me of what you just accused me of. Maybe I should have re-iterated, but no, you'd have missed the re-iteration as well.

If you can show me any YouTube of any time that the media parsed, critiqued or criticized Obama's statements that I focused on (That is his statements to the effect that although we are reforming health care, we have to stick with the system in place as we are not starting from scratch), I will eat my dirty stinky gardening shorts.

[babylonsister]

26. I couldn't get past the first sentence. nt

[truedelphi]

45. The stance of

The three monkeys - See No Evil, Hear No Evil Report on No Evil Deeds, does not guarantee the absence of evil - it only guarantees ignorance.

Do you want to understand what life in the United States of the Big Money Party will be like ONLY after it is impossible to get our country back? Or do you want to join the rest of your buddies from the old Stolen Election caucus and figure out what is happening, right now, before it is too late?

You were most courageous in understanding and tackling the Stolen Election and electronic election machinery issues. Why are you refusing to see what is right before your eyes?

Babylonsister, what hurts me about this is that you once were a real leader. I think you are the only one of us heavily involved in the Stolen Election issue who has not been able to make the leap to the notion that no matter who it is, when they sell us out, they need to be called on it.

Go to You Tube and search for Obama's campaign promises. See how quickly he has forgotten them.

"All throughout my career in Illinois , and in the Senate of the United States I have worked to reduce the power of special interests," Obama once said

Obama do you remember saying that you reduced the powers of special interests? What happened to the "Good" Obama? Why did his evil twin take over once you got in the White House?"

[KittyWampus]

27. I think it will be a long hard slog towards Single Payer. We have to start somewhere.

I appreciate that some Lefties are going to fight for Single Payer.

[truedelphi]

28. Thanks KittyWampus.

We do have to start somewhere and I am trying to think of good strategies.

I think I am designing a cat poster (Since cats are always acceptable) in which I will be having my personal cat guide advocate.

[KittyWampus]

33. I am sad that there hasn't been any tv ads to counter the crap the Insurance giants put on.

[truedelphi]

35. What is infuriating me right now is that MoveOn is

bugging me via email for money to help them bring about "the immediately needed... health care reform."

Sorry but since it is not really "reform" I don't want it to happen immediately. And I certainly don't see the need to offer MoveOn any more money.

they have enough money to create and put out several ads.

[inna]

29. K&R (+5) for the sad truth, nt

[truedelphi]

38. Thanks Inna.

:hi:

[Toucano]

30. What hasn't a coalition of other business sectors formed to push Universal SIngle Payer?

Are they sleeping through this?

Haven't they noticed that taking health care off their books will improve their bottom line?

This is a mystery to me.

[truedelphi]

37. That is a new thought on the matter. And a worthy

New thought at that.

GM said several years back, that one of the main reasons for out sourcing was not being able to contain the costs to its Union Workers, re: health insurance.

So you would have thought that somewhere along hte line industies of all sizes, shapes, colors etc, would have banded together on this.

[Stand and Fight]

31. Kicked and recommended. n/t

[OwnedByFerrets]

34. The other thing that was amazing was him saying that the

industry serves a purpose. BULLSHIT. The insurance industry is nothing more than a leech that makes profit on the backs of sick people.

[truedelphi]

36. Ah but the industry is profitable in their role as leeches - and

Thus they are good for quite few election campaign dollars.

Thus it appears to be an ever increasing spiral of injustice - we have given to the industry, we shall now be forced by mandate to give even more. All the time the industry ramps up their profits and contribute more campaign monies which ensures that real reform is ever further away from the Average American.

[OwnedByFerrets]

39. Which leaves US chasing our tails

[omega minimo]

40. or it makes profit on the backs of well people and abandons them when they're sick

[truedelphi]

41. And as long as the For Profit Health Insurance "Providers" are

Left in the loop, then it will be that way. The fact that Obama has aligned himself with the executives of these murderous Corporations is nauseating...

"All throughout my career in Illinois , and in the Senate of the United States I have worked to reduce the power of special interests," Obama once said

Obama do you remember saying that you reduced the powers of special interests? What happened to the "Good" Obama? Why did his evil twin take over once you got in the White House?"

[SammyWinstonJack]

62. He can say anything, then do the opposite, and we just need to STFU 'cuz

'He's got this!' :eyes: :puke:

[truedelphi]

68. He did get his didn't he?

Michelle canahve her lovely organic garden while the rest of us will have Monsanto GMO's foisted on us.

We ain't got much in the way of power, it seems.

[DollyM]

43. You forget that people want to drive around in their gus guzzlin, polluting cars!

I had someone on Face book tell me that she was afraid of Obama because he was trying to tell her what kind of car she could drive! So your car analogy is more appropriate than you think. Yes, they do want to drive the same car no matter who it hurts because GD it, it's their car!

[bobbolink]

50. At least with cars we actually do have some choice.

While I can't afford a Prius, I can keep my 30+ mpg Toyota.... I'm not stuck with only a Hummer for a choice.

As for the ditz afraid she will be told what car she can have.... Smart parents don't let children continually choose unhealthy food. Adult children who can't be concerned about how they are affecting others and the planet NEED to have their choices curtailed!

[treestar]

44. Are you working on Blue Dogs to vote for single payer?

That would seem like the constructive thing to do.

You make a demand in big bold letters after declaring we are screwn. Have you lost hope or no?

[truedelphi]

48. I never voted for a blue dog.

I did however vote for Obama.

And it was because of the statement that follows IN BOLD, one that he made again and again, that I voted for him. Now he has abandonned that stance. And in addition to everything else, he said just a day or two again, that he hopes no other President will have to work on the Health Care issue. Which pretty much sums it up - once the forty million now un insured are locked into the private insurers, then the insurance companies will have even MORE monies to give to the top candidates, so the candidates will be more locked into the special interests than ever.

"All throughout my career in Illinois , and in the Senate of the United States I have worked to reduce the power of special interests," Obama once said

Obama do you remember saying that you reduced the powers of special interests? What happened to the "Good" Obama? Why did his evil twin take over once you got in the White House?"

[treestar]

49. The President is not the problem. Blue Dogs are.

the Repukes are irrelevant. It's the conservative Democrats.

Even if your state doesn't have one, you can work on them.

[truedelphi]

51. I have a lot on my desk. As

I try to keep encouraging those on the Progressive Caucus to keep up the good fight.

but if you offer me the name and ph number, email etc of ONE BLUE DOG, I will be DOGGEDLY faithful about attempting to sway them.

[treestar]

52. Blue Dogs

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8644162&mesg_id=8644340

There's a threat with numbers.

Pops up on DU every now and then, too, someone has a list with all info.

[truedelphi]

54. Good info. Thank You! n/t

[bertman]

67. treestar, I beg to disagree on your insistence that "the President is not the problem.

Blue Dogs are."

The problem is the President and the Democratic leadership. If they truly wanted significant healthcare reform they would be turning the screws on the Blue Dog Turds so hard that those suckers would be cryin' for mama. There are many ways for the national party leadership to "persuade" the wayward among the rank-and-file, but Obama, Reid, and Pelosi will not do that. Actually, it may be that they CANNOT do it, rather than will not. They act as if they are unschooled in the hard ball tactics that win the Republicans almost 100% support on any vote the party leadership decides to push hard for. However, when you consider that the President has Mr. Ultimate Attack Dog, Rahm Emanuel, standing right beside him it becomes much more puzzling as to why the Democrats cannot get down and dirty on the Blue Dog Turds.

That is, until you see that the other Mr. Emanuel, brother Zeke, is one of the big players in the game and he favors reforming insurance companies--helping them to rethink how they operate--rather than working to phase them out in favor of a healthcare provider system that doesn't involve BIG PROFIT for PRIVATE INSURERS.

So, there's really no mystery as to why the Blue Dog Turds don't get in line. Nobody really gives a damn if they don't. Eventually the plan will be watered down enough that they will sign on for it. Once it's no longer a "socialistic" government-run health care plan it really won't matter so much.

[DerekG]

53. Thank God yours was a Trojan post

Honestly, I can't think of anything Mr. Hope n' Change should be commended for. Had I voted for him, I'd be pretty upset right about now.

[truedelphi]

55. In this household, both of us voted

For O and donated.

My spouse, who was truly devoted, won't stay in the room if he is on TV. While I still watch him from time to time.

[johnaries]

58. Here, let me explain using your car analogy.

Obviously, you need a new car. You go to the car dealer and he agrees, and then tells you the cost of a new car. Well, you can't afford that! So you and Dingell Sr. and then Dingell Jr. keep explaining how badly you need a new car but the car dealer won't come down on the price. This goes on for 40 years, and still no new car. So, then you go to the Blue Dogs... er, the bank for a loan. They are willing to loan you some money, but not nearly enough for a new car.

So, what do you do?

Well, you manage to come to a compromise with the bank so you can get enough to replace the motor, muffler, fix the doors, add a catalytic converter to pass the smog tests, and get new brakes and tires.

It's still ugly, but it's no longer a death-trap. And now you can start saving up for that new car.

edit to add - it took me over 30 years to get the new car that I wanted. But I persvered and compromised when I had to. I now have the car I always wanted because of my perseverance and compromise.

[truedelphi]

64. The problem is, since Single Payer Universal Health Care

Is cheaper than any other convoluted system of "patching up the old system" (and even Obama admitted this several years ago,) there is no reason to not shelve the old system. Also, your analogy does not include the nefarious dealings of the lobbyists.

We did a two trillion dollar war in Iraq without questioning how it would be paid for. We did an overnight give away of 2 to three trillion bucks to Wall Street interests, with another eight to ten trillion bucks used to play around internally (Federal Reserve buying up Treasury bonds etc.

No one asked how that will be paid for, and even as that legislation was being passed, a Senator (one I didn't recognize) on C Span was shaking his head saying "They forced me to vote for this, but will our nation be like Romania in three or four years?"
This, circa Spring 2009, is our new Bailout situation legislation.

It is only when something turns up that is good for the welfare of the people that there is outrage about cost.

But because of the executive pay scales, I am of the firm belief that by eliminating those -- as would happen should we go to USPHC for all -- would bring down the cost by 30% !!

One UnitedHealth Care executive who heads that organization from his home in Minnesota makes as much as 3,300 employees at one of that HMO's hospitals in Rhode Island. This is why health care is so expensive. And since the government cannot force the pay structure of an organization, what has to happen is to go to Single Payer Universal health Care (Or MediCare for all)

Otherwise we are funding the inner circle of bastards who are already using their bloated corporate profits to fund the lobbyists who work against We The People.

[bertman]

60. Thanks for bringing this up, truedelphi. I can't add anything useful to this, so I'll kick

it.

Feet to the fire. And all that.

[truedelphi]

66. I find your support

Always useful.

[TorchTheWitch]

61. If this shit "reform" was being introduced by Repubs

every single person here would be apocoleptic seeing it for what it IS and cursing Repubs up, down and sideways. The ONLY reason the Repukes in congress don't like this dispicable corporate giveway and screwing of the people is because it will be the Dems getting big campaign bucks instead of themselves.

NOT A DIME'S WORTH OF DIFFERENCE... when the fuck are people going to wake the hell up and realize that this is TRUE????

[SammyWinstonJack]

63. +1

:applause:

[truedelphi]

65. + 1 From me too. n/t