How much should a family of 4 with a gross income of 60K pay as a reasonable annual premium?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

I personally think no family or individual should have to pay out more than 5% of gross income in premiums. For the family above that would be 3000 a year or 250 a month or 62.50 a week. This is my completely arbitrary opinion based on nothing but what "seems" right. It's still a lot more than what a family in Canada would pay. This is also much less than the $900 a month my husband and I pay as a couple right now.

WE pay INSANE amounts of our income per capita for insurance now.

[Darkhawk32]

1. $250 a month would be reasonable. n/t

[demosincebirth]

9. 250 a month wouldn't buy you much here Ca. That would get..

a healthy 21 year old monthly coverage... its sad.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. -0-

[SoCalDem]

3. news reports about the 'trigger' for affordability is 15%

not good at all..

here's the math:

SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sat Sep-05-09 08:41 AM


Original message

The 15% trigger... by the numbers.. $66K becomes $14,038.20


66K gross income seems to be the "magic number". This is for a family of 4, and is the percentage amount that has been determined to be "affordable".

This is for insurance PREMIUMS..not for out-of-pocket medical expenses.

Another thing to consider, is that a $66K income, family of 4, often becomes a $66K family of 3, then 2, as kids age-out, and of course then the trigger "goes away", as the family gets smaller, but the income remains the same.

If we accept 15% as the likely amount, and 30% is considered the norm for housing, we're up to 45% of "gone-before-we see it" money..down the drain.

Now we add in state income taxes (most states have them, and they are going UP UP UP).. California's rate for that income is 9.3%

FICA (combined Soc. Sec & Medicare) is 7.65%

Now we have federal income taxes ..
( http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cf... )
for that income they are probably 16.78 (although the chart I used shows marginal tax rate of 38%, which seemed too high to me)

That brings us to a whopping 78.73% of that $66K gross income....before we have spent a CENT on "living expenses" other than housing..which is a given, whether you rent or are "buying".

That is $51,961.80...

This leaves that mythical family of four with $14,038.20 to pay for stuff like:

car payments
food
car insurance
medical co-pays
medical expenses not covered by insurance
life insurance
gasoline
electricity
water
tuition *if there are kids in college or near college age
phone
clothing
credit card payments (sucks if you have these)
student loan payments

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

4. So this is what we have to start working on right now - the definition of "affordability"

15% is ridiculous on the face of it and leaves us almost no better off than we are right this moment.

What is the 15% figure supposed to trigger?

[Jim__]

6. 66000 * .15 = 9900

No?

Doesn't that mean that @15% of $66000, the cost is 9900? 10% of 66000 = 6600, so I think your number is too high.

[SoCalDem]

7. 15% would be the mythical trigger point for a 66k income

I used the aggregate of all taxes
plus the "customary" 30% for housing (even though many are way beyond that 30% now)

added 'em all up times 66K, and then subtracted..

I am a fan of 5th grade math:)

[stopbush]

5. It gets a bit complicated.

What if you're a family of 6 or 8 that makes $60k a year. You have more people to insure, but more mouths to feed on the same salary. Should a family of 2 parents and 6 kids pay $6000 a year, or 10% of their annual income? That only seems "fair" because they went ahead and had "too many" kids, right? But is that really fair? What if the family of four is a walking Typhoid Mary clan while the family of 8 never needs to see a doctor outside of an annual check-up? Is it right for the healthy family to pay twice as much for insurance as the family putting a tremendous strain on the system, just because their family is twice as large as the family of 4?

In my soon-to-be 55 years on this planet, I have had very, very few occasions to see a doctor for something other than a check up. Once was when I had my tonsils out as a kid. Once was when I broke my collarbone playing sandlot football. Outside of that, I can honestly say I haven't been a strain on the system. I happen to be one of those healthy types who has had hundreds of thousands of dollars paid to the insurance industry over the decades on my behalf that ends up paying for the health problems of others.

But if I lose my job tomorrow and my health care with it, and then I happen to come down with a major disease, I'm fucked. Those hundreds of thousands of dollars paid into the system by my employers do me no good as I'm no longer an employee.

Perhaps the whole concept of health "insurance" is the problem. Perhaps what we need are health "care" from a health "system."

[TxRider]

8. Hmm...

To simplify, at what point does society paying for social programs gain the right to mandate a persons lifestyle. Be it smoking, eating high fat foods, or reproducing?

It will become a larger question as time goes on.

And is at the core of the health care debate.

[Stand and Fight]

10. -1

[SoCalDem]

11. We need to stay out of each other's underwear drawers

Mandatory coverage for EVERYONE, lessens the "need" to "know" about everyone else's flaws..

the ones who have "bad" habits will die younger regardless of the care given them, and all you mega-sooperdooper healthy types will live forevah!!

[jwirr]

12. I have Medicare/Medicaid and once asked my worker what I would

have to pay for the same coverage if it were private - she told me that it would cost me $250 a month. That would be just for me.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

14. And I would kill to have Medicare for that.

My elderly parents have had absolutely outstanding healthcare under Medicare. Bypasses, cancer operations, physical therapy, diabetes care, Parkinsons care, dermatological care, - - - it's unbelieveable. They have great doctors and a fantastic quality of life and it's all due to Medicare.

[jwirr]

16. Yes, I know just how lucky I and a lot of other elderly are.

[valerief]

13. They probably want 61K. nt

[WCGreen]

15. Mrs. WCGreen and I pay about $ 5.430 just for medical insurance...

This doesn't include the copays or other out of pocket expenses.

We gross about 51k per year so we pay out a little more than 12% for our insurance.

This doesn't included the match that the company pays nor the Medicare tax withheld on Mrs. WCGreen's salary nor the amount I pay from my self employed income.

There you have it.

Given our scenerio, a family of four that earns 60k should pay about $7,000 or a little over 10%. About $ 585 per month.