"One of the great tragedies-how patriotism hasbeen coopted by people who claim the Confederate flag"

[Pirate Smile]

And South Carolina Shall Rise Again
11 Sep 2009 02:00 pm

There are some really great takes on South Carolina politics over at the Times, Room For Debate. This one by Thomas Schaller is really rich on the history:

Thomas Jefferson removed condemnations of slavery from the Declaration of Independence to appease South Carolinian slaveholders. State loyalists helped the British recapture the state in 1780 from the patriots. By 1828, state icon and Vice President John C. Calhoun was advocating state "nullification" of federal powers.

In 1860, South Carolina became the first state to secede -- and even threatened to secede from the Confederacy because the other southern states refused to re-open the slave trade. In 1856, on the Senate floor Congressman Preston Brooks bloodied an abolitionist senator with a cane.

Well into the 20th century, South Carolina's black citizens observed the Fourth of July mostly alone; the vast majority of whites preferred instead to celebrate Confederate Memorial Day. In 1920, the state legislature rejected the women's suffrage amendment, finally ratifying it a half century later.

Lots of meat in there (like ratifying women's suffrage in 1970.) But I am thinking about that Fourth of July point. It reminds me of some of the research David Blight has done which argues that the first Memorial Day was actually celebrated by blacks in South Carolina.

One of the great tragedies of the past half century or so, is how patriotism has been coopted by people who claim the Confederate flag, while black leaders, from King to Obama, are dismissed as communists/socialists and now Hitlerite. These are people whose heroes routinely flouted the federal government and assaulted black troops carrying the Union flag.

http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/09/and_south_carolina_shall_rise_again.php

[The Magistrate]

1. The Old Confederacy, Ma'am, Remains A Nest Of Treason

"I will fight the secesh till Hell freezes over, then fight on the ice!"

[Pirate Smile]

2. How did they end up the ones the media is always calling "very patriotic"? They can stop that

sh@# right now.

They have repeatedly shown disrespect for the Constitution, the Courts, the Government and their fellow citizens.

I'm not feeling charitable toward the state in general but I do have a great deal of sympathy for the Democrats living in their midst. Ugghhh.

[The Magistrate]

5. Because Hating 'Commies', Ma'am, Became The Test Of That

The Klan, the true expression of Southern white sentiment from reconstruction, began wrapping itself in 'patriotism' in its early twentieth century revival, when left ideas began to be deliberately blurred with 'foreign influences'. And during the twenties and thirties, Communists in the U.S. were in fact the leading supplier of lawyers and speakers against lynch law and such rail-roadings as the 'Scottsboro Boys' case, so it was a tune these vicious racists learned to sing with feeling.

Good Democrats today down there, Ma'am, have my deepest sympathy, but the treasonous rebellion was never properly dealt with, and we pay for it daily.

[Dogmudgeon]

3. Democrats need a "Southern Project"

Even a few touches of blue could break the grip that the "Calhoun Conservatives" have on national politics, policy, and culture.

--d!

[Arkana]

7. Some of it's coming around.

Remember, Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida all voted for Obama in 2008...and we came damn close in Georgia.

[Pirate Smile]

17. Good point.

:)

[Ian David]

4. Personally, what the Confederate flag symbolizes to me is Treason.

Sure, some say that to THEM it symbolizes "Southern Heritage."

So, when I visited South Carolina, I wore THIS on my hat:





Both designs available in my CafePress store.... gling! http://www.cafepress.com/southdiversity

[The Magistrate]

6. That Is Exactly What It is, Sir, and Nothing Else

[Arkana]

8. Haha...is that General Sherman?

[Ian David]

9. Yes, it is. :) n/t

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

16. LOL! Now that's hillarious.

[LuvNewcastle]

10. I like your flag -- did you draw it up?

I saw a similar flag flying from a house in New Orleans one time. I'd like to have one for myself.

[Ian David]

12. I didn't draw it by hand. I combined elements in a photo editing program.

Feel free to appropriate it for your own purposes.

And thanks, I'm glad you like it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Yet another who does not know what the CSA flags were

They one you have displayed is the 2nd Confederate Navy Jack

[Sabien]

24. CSA flag expert...and your point is?

does the "real" confederate flag represent something different than the "2nd Confederate Navy Jack"?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. Just that facts matter

[Ian David]

25. Whatever. I really don't care which Treason Flag I use. n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

32. Another person for whom facts are optional

[Ian David]

33. Not like it's important, but if you feel the need to enlighten me, go ahead. n/t

[Thothmes]

34. Actually the design was first proposed by William P. Miles

In September 1861 General Beauregard proposed that the design be adopted as a battle flag. After the issue was discussed between General Beauregard and General Johnson, the design was adopted. The Confederate quartermaster produced 120 flags for distribution to the Confederate forces operating around Richmond and the Virginia Peninsulaby by the end of 1861. These forces would eventually become the Army of Norther Virginia.

[Critters2]

40. Treason nonetheless. nt

[Ian David]

11. What we have now is Reverse-McCarthyism. The witch hunt is to demonize Patriots...

... and extol the virtues of Treason, Sedition, and Secession.

[izzybeans]

26. That's the same as the original flavor of McCarthyism.

[Ian David]

28. Original McCarthyism was at least, in WORD if not spirit, attacking accused Communists.

People who, IN THEORY, were opposed to the elected government of The United States, and were the declared enemies in The Cold War.

Granted, that's not what was ACTUALLY happening.

REVERSE McCarthyism is attacking those in the mainstream who are SUPPORTING the duly elected government of We The People.

I think we should run with the meme that Republicans are demonizing Patriotism.

[Libertas1776]

13. Every time someone waves the Confederate flag

it is a slap in the face to every single man and woman who has fought and died for this country since 1865; hell since 1776. We have been getting screwed over by the South, particularly South Carolina, since that long, hot summer in '76. The teabaggers and birfers don't what a return to a more conservative, "traditional, all white" America, they don't even want America. They want a return to a rebellious region, an oligarchy founded on the backs of racism and slavery that, after more than four years of bloody war, failed to breakaway. They want the Confederacy.

Well, I got news for SC, you ain't going to get it!

[rpannier]

14. Waving The Battle Flag of the Confederate states says

I associate with losers and I'm proud of it

[ProgressiveProfessor]

22. Its not the Battle Flag of the Conderacy, its the 2nd Naval Jack

[Thothmes]

35. Actually it became the Regimental Standard of the

Army of Northern Virginia. By 1863 all regiments of the ANV used this pattern flag as their regimental standard. The flags were produce for them by the Quartermasters clothing department in Richmond. The Confederate War Department never officially adopted this pattern flag for the entire Army, but as the war progressed, it was adopted in regiments of the Confederate Army in the Western Theater.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

37. Not quite true

The battle flag was square, the naval jack was rectangular. Neither was called the Stars and Bars at the time

[Thothmes]

38. The square pattern was the one adopted by the

Richmond Quartermaster for issue to the Regiments of the Army of Norther Virginia.

[Critters2]

41. What the fuck difference does it make? It's a Confederate flag! nt

[hfojvt]

15. Part of that fight was about Kansas

Preston Brooks attacked Massachussetts Senator Charles Sumner. Sumner was not just 'bloodied'. He did not return to the Senate for two and a half years. "To express outrage at Brooks's attacl, Massachussetts re-elected Sumner even though he was physically unable to fill his seat." (Bleeding Kansas p. 100)

The provocation for the attack was not just that Sumner was an abolitionist. Senator Charles Sumner gave a two day oration "The Crime against Kansas" on May 19 and 20. "Sumner called for Kansas's admission under Seward's plan. Throughout the debate, Sumner's language was unusually offensive. In his reply to Douglas, he compared that Senator to a 'noisome, squat, and nameless animal.' Another victim of Sumner's vitriol was the elderly South Carolina Senator, A.P. Butler. Butler was known for his 'bubbling good nature,' erudition, and fondness for quoting classical authors. None of this prevented Butler from 'flar up fiercely, to assume the haughty air of the representative of a higher class' when slavery was attacked. In his speech Sumner accused Butler of having taken 'a mistress ...who...though polluted in the sight of the world is chaste in his sight - I mean the harlot slavery.'" (Op cit 98-99)

Brooks was said to be a relative of Senator Butler and attacked Sumner three days after Sumner's speech.

[Zenlitened]

18. K & freakin' R!

You can't claim to be an American patriot if you're wavin' the confederate flag.

[izzybeans]

19. I used to ask guys in Indiana who flew that flag if they're family was from there.

If they were, I'd suggest that it's possible their great-grandfather's father would consider them a traitor.

[izzybeans]

27. their not they're, genius.

What a douchebag? :)

[Pirate Smile]

20. kick

[Pirate Smile]

23. kick

[invictus]

29. K&R

[Joanne98]

30. They're not patriots they're scumbag traitors. They should be hung for treason!

[Thothmes]

36. Check the Constitutionof the United States, flying a Confederate flag

in no way meets the Constitutional standard for "treason"

[Critters2]

42. What message do you thik is intended by showing the Confederate flag?

Whichever Confederate flag it is.

They are treasonous. No way around it.

[Thothmes]

46. They may be stupid, unpatriotic, inane, foolish or

a whole list of unflatterin adjectives, but they are not treasonous. They are not committing that Constitutionally defined crime.

[PM Martin]

39. See confederate history revisionist Trace Adkins "til the last shot's fired"

http://www.metrolyrics.com/til-the-last-shots-fired-lyrics-trace-adkins.html

I was there in the winter of '64
When we camped in the ice
at Nashville's doors
Three hundred miles our trail had led
We barely had time to bury our dead
When the Yankees charged and the colors fell
Overton hill was a living hell
When we called retreat it was almost dark
I died with a grapeshot in my heart

Excuse me! So he is implying that the confederate army are the "real americans" :puke:


:puke:

[Odin2005]

43. Anyone who waves a Confederate battle flag is a goddamn traitor!

[Critters2]

44. +1 nt

[ellie]

45. Those stupid fuckers lost

They need to get over it.

[moondust]

47. Was Lincoln's Republican Party coopted by his enemies?

Looking around today it would seem to be so.