Would Hillary have stirred up all this nastiness? Sure, they'd hate her

[BR_Parkway]

just because she's a Democrat & a Clinton - but it seems they'd be more likely to be dismissive (in their sexist little "women don't count as much" way) than this outright hatred that seeing a black man in charge seems to have stirred up.

[Aramchek]

1. what's your point?

[BR_Parkway]

5. I'm wondering how much of this is their typical "all libruls are bad" and how

much of it is simply racism.

The support of Palin, strictly because it was a woman says much about little they'd treat a woman equal to a man in the job.

The 'cult-like' Pavlovian hatred of Clinton, Kennedy, Barney we can count on once Rush & the rest of hate radio focuses on a certain name - look at how quickly Nancy Pelosi got to that status in just the past few years.

I think there's a certain part of their base that really is brainwashed and will follow whatever the herd is being told to do.

And then there are the others - who would be just as frothing at the mouth if the GOP put a non-white at the top of the ticket (I know, I've got a better chance of hitting the lottery). I know my dad fits that category, he'll never find anything he could like that Obama could do, no matter what the policy position.

I guess the point what to get other's opinions about how much of this was that it was non-GOP, how much was strictly race and how much was overlap of them both

[CakeGrrl]

2. Unrec. Any comparison between Obama and a Clinton will probably not

end well or be constructive.

As if one type of discrimination is worse than another. Who's to decide? It's totally hypothetical, and no one can know.

What we're dealing with is bias-based hatred against and lack of respect for the President NOW.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. The question was legit. So I will counter your stupid unrec

By unrecing this, you seem to be advocating for censorship of a legitimate question.

[orpupilofnature57]

3. Insecurity is the root of both Racism and sexism and it's Theirs not Ours.

[Pisces]

4. Who cares about hypotheticals. Let's deal with our reality. There is a racist undertone to the right

wing. i guarantee that the majority of African Americans feel it is blatant racism. Perception is reality, the Republicans continue to go down the path of a Whites only party. This will only ensure their demise.

[blondeatlast]

6. Yes.They spent 12 years prepping for her, they just got punked.

Remember she was the Second Coming of Satan to them until Obama came along; then the gutter politics was directed at him because he was leading.

Regardless, this thread is counterproductive.

[JerseygirlCT]

28. Totally agree nt

[customerserviceguy]

7. I think she'd have stirred up just as much vitriol

and it would have happened on day one of her administration. Besides, the right wingers knew they had already defeated her on healthcare legislation once before, they'd just go back to their old playbook and do the same things again.

I feel it's a mistake to overuse the word racist in this context, there has been a very deep polarization in this country with regard to politics. Certainly, there are some isolated incidents of racially-charged protest, but that's not the primary motivation of the baggers. It's more of a class struggle than anything else.

[BR_Parkway]

8. Protesting the tax cut and protecting the health insurance CEO's big salaries

has got to be the strangest class struggle in the history of our nation. I don't know of another point in time when the little folks were able to be riled up so much for so many things that are against their own interests.

[customerserviceguy]

11. True, but that's the bizarre nature of it

The fatcat CEO's have been able to co-opt working and middle class people into fearing that the those on the bottom rung of the ladder are after their stuff.

This game's been played for all of the time I've been alive, and I suspect it will be the case long after I'm gone.

[babythunder]

13. Class struggle against who exactly?

These aren't people from wealthy backgrounds who are trying to protect their fortunes. Most of the teabaggers are working-class and probably in many cases unemployed individuals. So again what are you talking about?

[customerserviceguy]

21. It is an odd thing

but there are these polarization between working people vs. welfare recipients, city folks vs. country folks, citizens vs. illegal immigrants, fundies vs. secularists, etc. that the Rethugs have been able to exploit when necessary.

I'm not speaking of it in the classical Marxist sense of the workers vs. the owners of society. Those baggers who are unemployed are probably only recently so, and they are seeking to blame somebody for it. Unfortunately, President Obama chose to inherit the bank bailouts started by Bushco by his appointments of Summers and Geithner, and he comes in for blame for that part of it.

[iceman66]

9. They hated her even more than Obama.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Magistrate]

10. Sexism v. Racism, Sir: Six Of One, Half a Dozen Of The Other

Either would have provoked this out-burst, it is just that the signs would be in different form: a lot of dominatrix and castratrix imagery, routine use of bitch and whore, a sexualized quality to the threats, frequent invocations of need for rape, all would season the usual stew of 'Commie-Nazi" swill. Her face pasted onto some 'Ilsa, She-Wolf of the S.S.' image would probably come to be the dominant emblem.

[JerseygirlCT]

29. Exactly. nt

[SoCalDem]

34. and "they" would be claiming that Bill was really running the show

and would have immediately sought to craft an amendment that would not allow the "spouse of" a president to run, during the lifetime of the retired president.

[skip fox]

12. I see the point of the question very well. The wing-nuts are going to try

to get as large of a swell against any Democrat as they can, pulling in moderates and independents if they can. The question raised is legit. Was it easier for them to do with Obama than Hillory?

It's a question . . . do people have something against questions that make them analyze the situation from a new direction??

Why the hell would someone ever unrecommend a thread such as this? Anti-intellectualism? Peevishness? Adolescent belches of proto-thought?

[babythunder]

14. This thread is more like anti-reality

we could sit here all day and play the hypothetical game. What if Al Gore was President, what if John Kerry, what if, what if, what if, so this is begs the question what is the purpose of this thread? To show that sexism or the hatred of the Clintons is stronger please explain to me how this is remotely a worthy discussion?

[BR_Parkway]

33. Actually, I was thinking that the racism is stronger than the Clinton

bashing (or maybe we were all just more prepared for the Clinton bashing since we've lived through it once already)

Worthy discussion? Hypothetical?

I'm a gay, white, male. I know that even some of the biggest GLBT allies don't always notice the slurs against the gay community. Because of that, I'm pretty sure the women on the board would be more prone to notice the sexist slights if they were being thrown out. And there are tons of posts about how much of what's going on is all about race, while there are almost as many saying we're being to quick to blame it on just race. None of those 'isms' is going to be solved through the legislative process.

But maybe figuring out how much of any of it is being stirred up by the hate radio/FAUX news talking heads can point us to the right direction to push our Representatives towards meaningful reforms in media consolidation and even the Fairness Doctrine. Because those are the first things we're going to have to change to be able to get real reforms in Campaign Finance. And that has to happen to get our democracy back - just look at the healthcare mess from our side of the aisle. We're fighting against our own corporate whores just to get them to do what we elected them to do.

Sadly, some folks here instantly went into defensive mode that the thread was somehow a slight against either Obama or Hillary.

[JitterbugPerfume]

15. racism

at its ugliest

[QC]

17. Most racists are also misogynists. Homophobes, too.

Hatreds seem to travel in clusters.

[seabeyond]

18. sheeeit, kerry is a white male and he got the hate too. i am afraid

that it doesnt matter the dem, they are so beyond in their hate, there will always be something

do i think race is a factor with obama. absolutely. and convenient too

[me b zola]

19. Doubtful that the racist would be exposing themselves in all of their nastiness

... I guess we shouldn't have elected an African American so that we don't offend the racists. </sarc>

[TexasProgresive]

20. It would be as bad or worse

They hate Bill but they absolutely can't stand Hilary. Joe Wilson would've shouted, "You lesbian whore, you lie!"

[pipi_k]

22. And what about...

ageism and John McCain?


How many here at DU were calling him a senile old fart?

What..."isms" don't count if they're coming from this side of the fence?


Not speaking of you specifically, just something that I saw nearly every single day during the primaries and beyond. John McCain surely wasn't the worst choice the Republican party could have put out there...yet people here were bashing him like there was no tomorrow. Some of them coming right out and admitting they opposed him because he was "too old".

Why is it OK for us to display that sort of "bigotry" but we rant and scream about the same from the other side? He can no more change his age than Obama can change his race or Hillary change her gender...

[treestar]

25. Old age does result in disablities

Just like extremely young age does.

[pipi_k]

26. Let's just say it CAN result in disabilities

It doesn't have to.

Being youthful is no guarantee that one will live out his entire four year term.

John McCain survived the most horrible tortures imaginable in Vietnam. I think he is not likely someone to give up under any circumstances.

If he is still alive in 3.5 years (as I believe he will be) then I hope people who demeaned him for his age last year suddenly start shitting themselves like a REAL old person might do.

[treestar]

30. Yes, I agree

But McPain's age did concern me, especially with the running mate he chose.

[babythunder]

35. What is the purpose of this thread

to highlight every isms that various candidates face? Your thread seems pointless and redundant.

[treestar]

23. Not quite

They'd believe Bill was really running things. I'm convinced they accepted Palin because they believed the men would really be in charge.

Men accepted females queens in 16th century England. She was one of them, and they could influence or control her.

To these people, a black man is still a man. And a man is superior to a woman, so not only is this man not one of "us" according to their insanity, he has the powers and abilities of a man.

So I think they'd pick on Hillary maybe more than a male President, and maybe evenly openly assert it to be Bill's third time, but not as much as they are hating on Obama.

[mzteris]

24. don't be silly - they hate women just as much. n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

27. Yes, I think so

Don't be fooled; they hate uppity women as much as they do uppity black men. Add to that Clinton-hate...

But does it matter? They've been primed to simply hate on cue anyone their lords and masters in hate-radio point them at.

[Vinca]

32. It would have been just as bad for Hillary.

The wingnuts, until now, hated Bill Clinton more than anything else on the planet with Hillary a close second.

[Forkboy]

36. They would have just switched "isms".

[Nikki Stone1]

37. Do you remember the 90s at all?

Hillary was the lightning rod for right wing paranoia and vitriol. The only difference between the rage against Obama and the rage against Hillary Clinton would have been the use of the C-word, which is still ok in some circles.