How do YOU determine the value of a living being's life?

[ZombieHorde]

For example:

If I killed a mosquito and wrote about it on DU, few would care. If I killed a kitten and wrote about it on DU, many would care. The kitten's life would be judged by most to be more valuable than the mosquito's life.

A whale's life is judged by many to be more valuable than a pig's life.

A horse's life is judged by many to be more valuable than a goldfish's life.

How is the value determined?

[Quasimodem]

1. Taste. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

6. Taste would determine the value of the meat, not the life.

Few here would be concerned if I killed and ate a yummy cow, but many here would be concerned if I killed and ate a yummy cat.

[Edweird]

21. That's cultural. I'm sure there are places the inverse would be true.

[vadawg]

22. mmmmm kentucky fried kittens.. not sure if it would catch on mate

[Quasimodem]

57. I meant the taste of the eater...

... not the taste of the eaten.

[ZombieHorde]

66. Ah. I see. nt

[Make7]

2. Apparently size. ( n/t )

[Deja Q]

3. Of what?

:evilgrin:

[izquierdista]

4. By the bar code at the pet store

[sharesunited]

5. Very subjective unless you are doing an economic analysis. Hitler loved dogs.

[ZombieHorde]

7. I understand this. How do YOU determine the value of an animals life?

eta: I added caps to my OP.

[sharesunited]

40. Furry and feathered rank higher than scaled. Must have legs but no more than four.

Antennae are excusable only if wings make a color or design statement.

On edit: Whales and porpoises don't have legs. But they don't have scales. It's not right to discriminate against them simply because they're sea dwellers. So I'll just rank warm blooded above cold blooded to assert their higher value to me.

[Warpy]

8. Cuteness.

Most of the complaints about whale murder would be perfunctory while the complaints about the kitten murder would be visceral. Most people can't find anything cute about a bloodsucking insect that spreads so many diseases, so the outcry at its dispatch is nil.

Only the Buddhists and Jains consistently point out the mosquito's life is just important to the mosquito as our lives are important to us and that there are Karmic consequences for swatting it.

I am, of course, a very bad Buddhist.

[Texasgal]

19. Whales

are not exactly "cute"...but...okay.

I try not to eat or kill anything living. I am not perfect but I do try.

[lumberjack_jeff]

36. It's like the pythagorean theorem. A^2+B^2=C^2

A=fuzziness
B=size
C=value

The only exception is people. Most people don't really give much of a shit, unless they share the same last name.

[vadawg]

9. i guess its teh same as with people, we start at the things closest to us

ie our family, then it radiates out, i care as much about a spider that lives in your house as you do about one that lives in bruces house, humans are tribal as hell by nature and i think we naturally rank everything around us.

[ZombieHorde]

12. Many here care about whales, but not pigs, yet most of us live closer to pigs than whales.

[vadawg]

15. i dont mean literally closer, i mean we feel closer to some than others

and its different for everybody, some people see a rabbit and its all cute, to me its a stew. We all have different ways at looking at the world around us and i dont think we will ever reach agreement..

[ZombieHorde]

29. "i dont mean literally closer" --- Oh, sorry. I should have realized that.

[Ikonoklast]

10. By weight, if it's a human life.

I can fetch a good buck for the big, juicy ones I catch and sell to the Soylent Food Processing Corporation.

[pipi_k]

11. I know some people place value on the cuteness factor

for example, a kitten is cuter than an alligator or a shark


for me, I don't know. I have felt bad at times for killing a moth. One time as a child I put an earthworm in the road and a car ran over it and it popped. I've felt awful ever since.

I feel terrible about wild boars being hunted. Foxes. Elephants. And even when an alligator escapes from a pond somewhere in Florida and has to be killed.

Sometimes I think I must have sort of a Buddhist approach to life. Although I do have to admit that there are times when I place more value on animals more than I do certain human beings.

It really feels weird to be so conflicted...

[vadawg]

14. i also think culture has a lot to do with it,

to americans a cow is walking steak, to a hindu its sacred, to some wolves are mystical, to others they are pests, to me they are the devil, to some cats are their children, to others they are roadkill. i dont think you will ever get everyone to agree...

[BuelahWitch]

13. Mosquitos are a nuisance and spread disease

Pigs are raised in captivity and easily bred. Many whales are an endangered species.
Horses have more value to humans than goldfish. They also live longer and are more intelligent.
Kittens are simply one of the joys of living. ;-)

[juno jones]

43. +1

You summed up the feelings I could not put into words. :hi:

[ZombieHorde]

46. I hate mosquitos, so no argument from me.

"Pigs are raised in captivity and easily bred."

Dogs, cats, and people are raised in captivity and easily bred.

"Many whales are an endangered species."

Would you save an endangered lizard over a kitten?

"Horses have more value to humans than goldfish."

How so?

"Kittens are simply one of the joys of living."

I wouldn't know.

[BuelahWitch]

59. .

"Pigs are raised in captivity and easily bred."

Dogs, cats, and people are raised in captivity and easily bred.

But you didn't use them in your original post.

"Many whales are an endangered species."

Would you save an endangered lizard over a kitten?

Again I was going by what you originally posted. You're changing the rules.

"Horses have more value to humans than goldfish."

How so?

Ask me that question the next time they use goldfish in the Kentucky Derby. Horses were also used to plow fields and as transportation at one time. Some people still like to ride horses today. And they are still more intelligent.


"Kittens are simply one of the joys of living."

I wouldn't know.

I feel very sorry for you.

Personally I wouldn't enjoy putting any of them to death, except for the mosquito. There is no reason we can't save endangered lizards and kittens too. It's not necessarily one or the other.

[ZombieHorde]

62. My original post was simply asking how you value an animal's life.

The animals I mentioned were examples, not rules.

Horses versus goldfish: I have never used a horse, but my mother used a goldfish to teach me about caring for a pet. Goldfish have been more useful in my life than any horse has.

"I feel very sorry for you."

My cat allergy is pretty severe. I am going to get some shots which I have heard are very helpful.

"except for the mosquito"

Damn straight.

You seem to value an animal's life bases on whether the animal is useful and whether the animal is joy inducing. Intelligence seem to be a factor as well. Am I right?

[BuelahWitch]

65. No

I value the life of all animals (except for mosquitoes). I was just speaking of society in general.

I once killed a ground mole with a shovel. Tried to get my cat to do it, she would have none of it. It was the dead of winter and the poor thing somehow got into the utility room that was built onto our garage. My mother told me it would have starved to death, frozen to death or made our cat sick, and I was doing the animal a favor. She also my grandmother would have been proud of me. But I felt horrible. Am I particularly fond of rodents? No. But I don't want to kill them either.

[BlueJazz]

16. By how much money they have.

Actually...I value all life. ...from the largest to the smallest.

[vadawg]

17. yeah but what lifes do you value the most, if you had to chose between your pet or child

or your neighbours cat othe their dog, its an interesting question that has been posed... is someone who produces things for society more valuable than someone who dosent, being brutally honest you would have to say that if it came down to survival a farmer is more valuable than an accountant,

[BlueJazz]

52. It sounds nice but I don't know the Farmer or the Accountant

Does the Farmer have "Bad Genes" ..will he produce childrn that will cost society money...and will they produce more flawed offspring.?

Does the Farmer beat his wife? Is the Accountant a wonderful caring human that will lead the populace to great happiness and prosperity?

I don't have the faintest idea..so ..I value all human life the same. (after my Family)

[vadawg]

55. thats nice but when it comes down to actual survival, humans for centuries

have made decisions about who to let into their family groups, when it comes down to the bare bones of who can help us further our family group hard decisions need to be made. As you stated you also value your family higher than other people, which is only natural. So its all about increasing the survival of your family group. if you only have so many resources who do you assign them to after your own family group, once again is someone who is productive more of an assett than someone who does nothing. It all makes for interesting mind games but you never know when you may actually have to make a decision that involves a hard choice.

[moondust]

53. How does Paris Hilton fit into that scheme?

:rofl:

[Quasimodem]

58. A sub human lifeform

Like a swan.

Elegant and graceful if seen at a distance in the right setting.

Otherwise: awkward, noisy, untrustworthy and demanding.

[flvegan]

18. I don't.

It's not my right. To do so, by definition, is in most cases selfish. Every living being values their life as much as I do mine, and I have no place to determine its value. The only time that I make any sort of decision outside of that, is if I'm doing so to protect myself or a loved one. Parasites (ticks, fleas, termites, etc) or any other creature that may somehow harm me or mine may have to be eliminated.

This really is a thought provoking question.

[ZombieHorde]

31. Hypothetical -->

A house is burning down and you can save the dog or the five fish in the fish tank. Which do you save?

I would save the dog, even though one life may be considered less valuable than five lives. I am not completely sure why I would save the dog over the five fish, but I know I would.

[flvegan]

33. Both.

[ZombieHorde]

35. If you take the time to grab them both the whole house will colapse and kill the lot of you.

You can get the dog and escape, you can get the fish and escape, you can get the dog and the fish and burn to death with them, or you can make no attempt to save those six animals.

[flvegan]

37. If taking one extra minute

is the death of me, then there's no way I can possibly enter such a fully involved house fire. The smoke, the heat, the flames...impossible.

See, that question never works. Reality is that if I can, without proper equipment, enter a house like that and save one of them then I most likely have the time to save both. Otherwise, it's a triage. Why is the dog in there? Why hasn't he escaped? How deep back into the house is the dog? The fish? Naturally, you'd save whichever you got to first, depending on how bad the fire is.

[vadawg]

38. okay i call you and tell you im going to shoot a dog or 5 fish

but you get to choose which one, can you choose which animals live... short time limit, but you have to choose one to die and one to live

[flvegan]

41. I'd call the police.

I wouldn't negotiate with a psychopath or a douchebag, one of which you'd have to be to do such a thing.

[vadawg]

42. then all the animals die, i got no problem with you if you couldnt decide

its just interesting how we all view different animals in different ways. I have always respected your total commitment to animals even though it has put us at odds a few times. I guess it really does take all kinds to make the world go round..

[flvegan]

45. It's not "couldn't" it's wouldn't.

You have to decide, and honestly if you're that nuts, you're probably killing them all anyway. And if you do, and shoot the dog, I get to enjoy your trial.

Lots of folks see things differently, and that puts them at odds. So long as we have the same goals as far as this community (DU) is concerned (being a political/dem/left/whatever website, as opposed to an animal rights one) then we have lots of common ground to not be at odds on. That's a good thing. So long as we remember that when we're done screaming at each other over the other stuff, heh heh.

[ZombieHorde]

44. OK, New Hypothetical -->

You are driving home from a wonderful vegan picnic. While driving your car down the street, you witness another car hit a dog and then drive off. Horrified, you wrap the severely injured dog in your picnic blanket and drive with great determination towards the veterinary clinic. You think the dog will die very soon, time is of the essence.

On the way to the vet the car ahead of you throws a fish tank with five fish in it out of the car window. You still have several bottles of water and a cooler. You can stop and save the five fish, but saving them will take time, the dog will most likely die in your car, or you can rush to the vet with the dog and the fish will most likely die in the street.

Would you risk the dog's life to save the five fish?

[flvegan]

47. What did I have at the picnic?

Okay, this is a tough one not being "in the moment" but I'll do my best to walk through my thinking...

So, the dog is so badly injured that he will "most likely die" if I stop to save these 5 fish. If I've already determined that the dog is doing that poorly, I'm probably driving like a maniac to begin with. Any car jettisoning a fish tank, that I can see and determine it's a fish tank with fish in it, is either going to 1. hit my car with it; 2. cause me to run over the debris/fish; 3. cause me to overshoot the debris/fish by a few hundred feet, and I'll only be able to watch cars following me run over the debris/fish. Any of these things are going to kill the fish, as is. So there's no real point in risking the dog.

The better hypothetical would be same situation with the dog. You picked a good one there, because I've had to do that so I can really visualize that one. Instead of jettisoning a fish tank, the car in front of me lurches off the road, into the water, severely wounding a manatee. The people in the car all get out of the water, but the manatee is obviously in peril. So, do you (I): continue on to the vet with the dog, knowing the manatee will likely die; or, stop the car, and with the strength of Thor heave the injured manatee out of the water and tie him to the roof and seek medical attention for both, knowing that the dog will most likely die whilst hoisting said sea cow from the murky depths?

Okay, that was silly.

[ZombieHorde]

49. You had veggie wraps, french bread with olive oil and herbs, bottled water, and a soycream bar.

"I've had to do that"

I am sorry, that sounds horrible. My wife was driving home from work one night and she saw another car serve into the other lane in order to kill a cat. She saw the cat die and I guess it was very brutal. My wife was so angry and so distraught that it took me a while to figure out what she was saying when she got home. I think she would have punched that driver if she had the opportunity. She was disturbed by that event for a while.

"heave the injured manatee out of the water and tie him to the roof"

I think an adult manatee would crush my car.

eta: the letter b

[flvegan]

51. De-lish!

It was horrible. BUT, if it was going to happen, I'm glad it happened in front of me. I'm an experienced rescuer, and my car is a vulgar excuse for a rolling emergency response unit. It took many months, but we rehabbed that dog and found her a fantastic new home in a part of this city most of us can only dream of living in.

I don't know how I'd respond to seeing what your wife did. What a horrible experience.

If you have the strength of Thor, you probably have a kick-ass, uncrushable ride. Any dents could just be banged out with Mjollnir.

[vadawg]

34. silly question, the plasma TV sarcasm, the dog definetly

[Duer 157099]

20. Strictly from a biological/evolutionary viewpoint....

I would say that the longer the lifespan of the species, coupled with infrequent reproduction, would determine the "value" of a being to the ecosystem.

I think that's why so many people get upset when old growth forests are cut down.

Microbes reproduce constantly and so their relative value, individually, is less than beings that don't repopulate as frequently.

Now having said that, I have a "goldfish" that has lived waaaaaaaaaay too long and it really bothers me.

[armyowalgreens]

23. Consciousness and the ability to be self-aware.

[Edweird]

24. I would say that the metrics vary from person to person, species to species

and case to case. It's all relative and subject to random and inconsistent application.

[stray cat]

25. I believe its ok to take an antibiotic to kill bacteria instead of being killed by bacteria

I put more value on a humans life or even a pets life than millions of pathogenic bacteria or yeast.

[gleaner]

26. That's a good question ....

It makes you think hard. I think that the value of live is relative and subjective to most people. The creatures you most value are the ones you relate to most closely. This is partly a cultural conditioning or family conditioning and partly your own emotional reaction to what you feel the most affinity for.

In some cultures they eat animals we consider pets, and that is natural because you eat what you can find to keep from starving. But when we hear about someone eating dogs or cats we have an internal shudder because we keep those animals as companions and friends. They fill a lot of our emotional needs and we bond closely to them.

We place the most value on human life, I think. Other humans are like us and of us. Some people have a lot of trouble seeing the likeness if the other person is of a different race or religion or culture. So, again you have subjective value based on personal evolution of beliefs and feelings. Most people do have more in common than they think. Love of family and friends, a desire to be safe and well and to have their kids grow into a better life than they or their parents have experienced. Different countries and cultures express this in many disparate ways, but the basic needs and feelings are the same.

As for insects, you can keep them. I know they have their part to play in nature and the food chain and all that, but they are alien and creepy and you don't want them in your bed. Some people may, but I don't so I guess I should limit that observation to me. As long as they stay outside, the insects live. If they come in it is stomping, trying to persuade the cats to eat them or sucking them up in the vacuum and letting it run for at least half an hour afterwords. My husband flushes them down the toilet, but you have to get close to them to do that. No way.

[rd_kent]

27. It's the cuddle factor!

The more cute, furry, fuzzy, or endangered, the more valuable.

[Ilsa]

28. Pigs are pretty smart. They may not be very cuddly, but some people

won't eat pork because pigs are smart. Dolphins are cute and smart, but not cuddly, but I'd value them over alot of breeds of dogs.

[U4ikLefty]

30. Dumb question

this is NOT about the value of life, but the value of killing.

[ZombieHorde]

32. How so? nt

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

39. to some degree, by the perceived sentience of the being

and, to some degree, the familiarity an individual has to that being. The latter is the key reason "the enemy" is dehumanized, and fraternization is discouraged.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

48. Mammals first if they aren't pests or a threat.

Birds
Reptiles
Insects

I'd say it's about how close they are to us on the species tree. The closer an animal is the more we can relate to it being like us.

[cherokeeprogressive]

50. Protein per Ounce / Flavor / Price per pound

:shrug:

[BOG PERSON]

54. For humans: GDP per capita. (So a Briton's life is 35 times more valuable than an Afghani's)

For animals? Oh I don't know, that's a lot more complicated.

[RagAss]

56. $3.50

[LWolf]

60. I value life at several levels:

One one level, I value life in general. I don't think life should be wasted, misused, or abused. I don't stomp on bugs or kill things unnecessarily just because I can. I don't value human life OVER the all the other lives in the biosphere; the lives that are needed to maintain a balance that allows life to thrive. This is the level that values group life over individual; while I might not value the flies in my house, I wouldn't want to eradicate all decomposers. Conversely, while I value my own species, I don't value it as a group more than others. I don't think my species should "rule," and I don't think my species should be overpopulating and usurping the space and resources needed by the rest.

On a different level, I value some species lives more than others. The species that I have relationships with, or the species that I recognize enough awareness or intelligence for me to be able to interact with, whether I choose to interact or not. I seem to relate more closely to mammals and birds. While I might recognize reptiles, fish, and insects, for example, as life forms sharing the planet with me, and value them for that, I don't have personal relationships with them.

On a different level, I value species that are helpful to me and mine, even when that awareness is not there, or so different that there is really no interaction. Spiders and ladybugs, for example. They consume life forms that can carry disease that I don't want to catch, or that can damage or destroy plants that I want or need around me.

On yet a different level, I value individual lives that connect to mine. Frankly, I value my horses more than many people. I'd haul them out of a fire before Arne Duncan, for example. The same goes with my dog and cat. They are my friends, partners, and family. Duncan is my enemy. I value the lives of friends, partners, and family more than I value the lives of enemies.

[LanternWaste]

61. via cultural mores....

Via commonly shared cultural mores... as do we all to a great extent. And although our limits may be somewhat different on a personal level, that difference is by mere degrees only.

[cali]

63. that's easy: we most value the lives of animals we identify with

and that varies somewhat from culture to culture. human nature I guess.

[Stevenmarc]

64. Who cares what value, I want some of what you're smoking

It had to be some really good shit to come up with that post