Outraged Parents Sue Wal-Mart, And Arizona for Taking Kids

[OneBlueSky]

http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/09/10/Outraged_Parents_Sue_Wal-Mart_And_Arizona_for_Taking_Kids.htm

PHOENIX (CN) - A married couple who took photos of their daughters in the bathtub sued Wal-Mart, the Arizona Attorney General and the City of Peoria, claiming the state took away their girls and placed them in foster care, and police and an assistant attorney general defamed them to dozens of their friends by saying they had "sexually abused" the girls by taking the photos.

Plaintiffs Lisa and A.J. Demaree say they photographed their daughters in the bathtub while on a family trip to San Diego, then dropped off the camera's memory stick at a Wal-Mart in Peoria to have the photos developed. The girls were 5, 4, and 1½ at the time.

The Peoria Wal-Mart reported the photos to the Peoria Police Department, said Richard Treon, the family's attorney. Of 150 photos on the memory stick, about seven showed the girls "with a towel around and in various portions of nudity," Treon said.

"The photo policy is a bit of a stretch when it is pictures of your kids," the attorney said.

Wal-Mart has an "unsuitable print policy" by which it decides "(without telling the customer that it had this policy) whether any photographs supplied by a customer on a computer 'memory stick' contained nudity of a minor of any kind and, if so, Wal-Mart would then decide whether to turn those photographs over to the police," according to the complaint in Maricopa County Court.

- more . . .

http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/09/10/Outraged_Parents_Sue_Wal-Mart_And_Arizona_for_Taking_Kids.htm

[tekisui]

1. What is wrong with us?

It feels like we are devolving as a people.

[barbtries]

2. i would be totally arrested

for some of the pictures i've taken of my babies over the years. i am not a pervert. jeezus. i hope they win big.

[Island Blue]

3. Never take your photos to Wal-Mart

I remember this story from a few years back:

Wal-Mart Turns in Student’s Anti-Bush Photo, Secret Service Investigates Him


Jarvis had assigned her senior civics and economics class “to take photographs to illustrate their rights in the Bill of Rights,” she says. One student “had taken a photo of George Bush out of a magazine and tacked the picture to a wall with a red thumb tack through his head. Then he made a thumb’s down sign with his own hand next to the President’s picture, and he had a photo taken of that, and he pasted it on a poster.”

According to Jarvis, the student, who remains anonymous, was just doing his assignment, illustrating the right to dissent.

But over at the Kitty Hawk Wal-Mart, where the student took his film to be developed, this right is evidently suspect.

An employee in that Wal-Mart photo department called the Kitty Hawk police on the student. And the Kitty Hawk police turned the matter over to the Secret Service.


http://www.progressive.org/mag_mc100405

I remembered this because the Wal-Mart involved in the incident is in my county. Wonder if they would have the same standards for a photo of an anti-Obama sign. Doubtful.

[wolfgangmo]

45. Walmart's new photo slogan.

If it's good enough for David Duke and the Grand Dragon of the KKK, then it's good enough for you

[romantico]

4. A friend of mine

A friend of mine a few years ago took some pictures to WAL-MART to have developed. He had gone there for years and it was the same guy in the Photo dept. who always took care of him. The photos he dropped off were from a recent gay pride event. When he went to pick up the photos he noticed this guy acting different. When he approached the counter the WAL-MART guy started acting flamboyant.He said things like, "Oh, isn't it a fabulous day?" and "Oh I just LOVE your shirt!" he was using a lisp and a lot of hand gestures. My friend had seen this same guy for years and noticed something was not right. There was a young kid working with him in the back watching all this doing his best to not laugh. My friend was in a hurry and other things on his mind and didn't think much of it.When he left the WAL-MART guy blew him a kiss and was just acting like a idiot.It was not until he got home hours later and looked at the photos is when he figured it all out. He called everyone he knew telling this story. I was one of the first and I was outraged and told him to complain to the manager. He has not stepped into a WAL-MART since then.

I am surprised people take their photos to WAL-MART. Even if I want to use their photo copier I still have to show them what I am copying.I use TARGET's photo copier where they do not stand over your shoulder or require to see your pictures.

[Christa]

5. How insane!

I took numerous nude photos when my children were babies; I could have landed in jail.

Good thing I wasn't living in the US then.

[thunder rising]

9. WalMart is where we go to celebrate our decline into poverty. It's a depressing place.

This isn't a sickness of the nation, it's a WalMart sickness. A place where desperate people are hired en masse, at unlivable wages. The greeters remind me of the self-flagellating slaves of the Romans.

Hell, everybody has the embarrassing bare bottom baby picture.

[smoogatz]

23. "WalMart is where we go to celebrate our decline into poverty."

Best line of the day. Well done!

[lostnfound]

24. +1

[Hansel]

44. +2. Very best line.

[jeffbr]

6. There should be a law requiring babies to be born with clothes on

Idiots. Put clothes on dogs and cats too.

[gratuitous]

13. That's why I always wear an extra pair of underwear

That way, I'm not nekkid underneath my clothes.

[Dr_Willie_Feelgood]

16. Putting clothes on animals...

...THAT should be a crime!

Almost every picture I've seen, the animal looks disgusted by the embarassment!

As far as baby pictures, that's a tough one. Silly, innocent pictures are one thing, sexual abuse is another.

How would we feel knowing that some photo clerk let a child molester slide because it was none of their business?

[intheflow]

28. Please.

There's a difference between babies playing in the bath tub photos and child pornography. You don't think you could tell the difference given a series of photos?

[Dr_Willie_Feelgood]

40. In some cases, sure, it would be easy, but...

...in other, probably not.

I am VERY sensitive to this issue. It seems every woman who has meant a lot to me (my mother, stepmother, little "sister", ex-wife, girlfriends, friend friends) has been a victim of rape and abuse.

I would rather err on the side of the children. If that means ending the time "honored" tradition of bathtub and bare-butt pictures, so be it.

No quarter for rapists and molestors.

(Edited for spelling)

[Quantess]

41. There is a photo of me as a 5 year old girl

stark naked except for suglasses, standing in the yard. I assure you that whoever took that picture had absolutely no sexual intent. I'm sure whoever (probably my mom) snapped the photo because they thought it was funny that I liked to go around naked.
That photo was processed in a fotomat back in the 1970s, along with a few other naked shots of me as a kid. I'm glad people had the sense to not overreact back then.

[Dr_Willie_Feelgood]

49. I'm sorry about being hypersensitive about this

I have no doubt that many, perhaps most, of these pictures are innocent.

Alas, we live in a world filled with too many monsters, stealing the innocence of youth for their sick, sadistic pleasure.

Where is the line? How are the people working the photo printers supposed to know when this is your child? And what the intent of the photographer is?

[wolfgangmo]

46. Think about this...

Because every female you know has been a victim, does that mean that every parent and every man is a rapist and abuser.

It is surprisingly easy to tell the difference between family photos and porno or abuse photos. Beleive me. I saw too many as an officer to ever mistake the 2.

I agree that we should err on the side of caution, but if a company, which is not a mandated reporter, has that policy then that needs to be disclosed clearly and publicly.

[demodonkey]

54. Please see my post #52.

Prudishness and paranoia about nudity leads a lot of children, especially girls, to grow up with "body" issues.

And I am "VERY" sensitive about this issue too.

[Vinnie From Indy]

56. Oh please!

Your hysterical viepoint is nonsense.

[RC]

7. Wal-Mart needs to lose this one big time.

This country is so psychotic when it comes to anything sexual. It is a closed loop.
If we, collectively as a country, were a person, we would be in forced treatment for our mental disorders.
Money for wars to spread our sickness, good. Money to help our own, bad.

[Coventina]

8. Not a lot of information in the article from the state's side.

All we get is the plaintiff's side, and from that, yes, it sounds horrible.

However, I'd be interested to hear what the Peoria PD has to say, as they obviously investigated the pictures and forwarded the case on to CPS and the State Attorney General's office for further investigation.

If there was anything creepy about the pictures, Wal-Mart (ugh) did do the right thing by referring it to the police.

I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with photographing your kids nude, but I also don't understand the appeal of it, either. Especially at the age these girls were. It's not like it was "their very first bath" or anything.

Call me a concern troll, I guess. But I suppose I'd rather see the occaisional innocent party harassed than for the sexual abuse of children to be ignored as it has been for many decades until now.

On the other hand, if these parents are innocent and were subjected to the cruel persecution that they claim, well, I hope they get a nice big settlement for their pain.

[onlyadream]

10. I had a pic developed at Walmart

of my two kids (girl & boy) in a bathtub at ages 4 and 1. The bubbles covered their private areas, so you can't see anything, only their top halves. The pic is even on my hallway wall b/c it's so cute. I wonder what the couple's pic looked like...

[Berry Cool]

11. That is completely insane.

What parents DON'T take a picture of their kid naked at some point? The classic "baby on bearskin rug" portrait was a nude portrait, after all.

Tons of parents take shots of their kids in the bath, or running around naked after they get out of the bath...and never lay a wrong hand on 'em.

That's effing nuts. And so was the guy who saw gay pride event photos and decided to make his own comment on them for his customer. Jeez. You take your photos into Wal-Mart and at best, you have to worry about what the people there will think of you when they see the pictures you took, and at worst, you have to worry about losing your kids? Whatever happened to privacy?

I get the impression that commercial photo image handlers are supposed to report only BLATANT images of child exploitation or crime of any kind...or things like large numbers of firearms appearing in a single image, which when reported has at times thwarted things like planned school shootings. Most criminals are smart enough to realize that those aren't the kind of pictures you give to someone else to handle, but every once in a while you get a dumb one, and reporting those can help prevent disaster.

But your own kids, naked in the tub...please.

[tsuki]

12. Good God. Mom and I are in a pic of her bathing at the kitchen sink me when I was

about two.

[Hansel]

43. My Dad took a picture of Mom bathing my bother and I

in the kitchen sinks when I was 4 and he was 3. We were covered in bubbles and he thought it was adorable.

[Indy Lurker]

14. Not to defend Walmart...

But in many places (such as Illinois) photo developers are required to notify police if the suspect child pornography.

The same law applies to Computer techs.

If someone form the Geek Squad finds child pornography on your computer they are required by law to notify the police.

[lapfog_1]

15. well this will put an end to the time honored tradition

of parents showing nude photos of you (when you were 2 or 3) to your first boyfriend / girlfriend that you bring home to meet the parents!

:sarcasm:





(Yet another reason to hate Wal-mart)

[boobooday]

17. It is disgusting how they sexualize everything

Parents have forever taken photos of their children in the bathtub!

[Deja Q]

19. Then maybe the parents needed to have put signs over their kids to prove it?

With digital photography, it's easier to take pictures -- the cameras are smaller and easily concealed.

I'm not going to prattle on for ages; it suffices to say there plenty of 'reasonable doubt' excuses.


Oh, it's the MEDIA that sexualizes everything. Most people love that, otherwise hollywood would actually be making something constructive instead. And when it's not the media, it's the molesters who do.

[intheflow]

27. Projection by conservative WalMart worker.

Conservatives are hyper-sexual and scared to death of it. They run around diddling kids and sleeping with their same gender while they uphold their sham marriages as the shining beacon upon which we should all aspire to. :puke:

[Deja Q]

18. Walmart should tell people upfront, otherwise - for once - I won't blame them.

Without knowing the context, if I saw such pictures, I'd have called the police too!

Human nature, of all the sorts of accidents to happen, this is the sort that's more readily forgivable.

And, quite frankly, as a victim of molestation myself, there are scars and what molesters do DOES impact a person's life. Embarrassment and fear, to say the very least...

[uppityperson]

30. naked babies in a bathtub and taking a bath during a vacation is not "knowing the context"?

I am sorry you got abused and agree it is unforgivable. However, seems the context on those pictures was clear and separating the children out to different foster homes while parents investigated is also unforgivable.

[demodonkey]

52. O for God's sake... This is a family ritual of childhood or at least it used to be....

My family took pictures of my brother and I in the tub as toddlers... most of my friends have such tub pictures as well in their family albums. It was once thought to be cute, and I happen to think it still is.

Real child molestation has NOTHING to do with family tub pictures. NOTHING. And I know a bit about child molestation myself, and its life consequences for the victim, which I am NOT going into here.

Prudish paranoia about healthy nudity will only cause children to grow up with body issues and image issues. And these can be as scarring as issues that come up after child molestation.

I hope this family suing Wal-Mart and the state of Arizona wins big. They will need the money because the damage done to those children by being reported to Child Services and ripped from their parents will be life-long.

[SmileyRose]

20. You know what? There really is a fine line here.

there's a reason why photo developers (it's not JUST Walmart that has done this) and law enforcement decided to work together in this way. Back when we were all on paper pictures this was more important - but it was important.

These days I would expect someone who is REALLY producing kiddy porn (and yes sick fucks do it to their own kids - even babies) to keep it in the home with their own printer and digital files. So you have to have a photo developer and law enforcement that have enough brains to be more selective about starting a bunch of shit when it comes to parents and their kids.

Obviously this photo clerk, the Walmart manager were stupider than a rock - and the prosecuter was so hungry for a big media circus to help with re-election that he didn't care who he steamrolled.

[Indy Lurker]

22. Depends on what the pictures show.

There are plenty of unfit parents out there.

[SeattleGirl]

21. Wow. I guess my siblings and I would have been taken away from

our parents, and my daughter would have been taken away from me.

I had no idea I was a perv.

[HughMoran]

25. People who own WalMart are perverts

Why else would then assume such things? ;)

[madmom]

26. It seems to me if the state attorney general and the city saw fit to take the girls

away, there MIGHT be more to the story. My daughter used to work in a photo lab at a box store and yes they are required by law to report anything suspect, if they don't they are also libel. So I think we need to hear the other side of the story.

[SoCalDem]

29. People still have pictures developed?

Digital is the ONLY way to take pictures of your kids.. Why risk some idiot turning your life upside down, if "they" think that bathtime pic of your kid is "dangerous".

[surrealAmerican]

34. The article claims they ...

... "dropped off the camera's memory stick". The reporter used the wrong word, he or she should have written "printed", not "developed".

[Trekologer]

31. As someone who worked in a store's photo lab

its a very fine line to walk. On occasion, we would process and print film which could be considered "indecent". In that case, we would return the pictures but include a letter asking the customer to not bring back such material in the future (mainly because the machine was in plain sight so anyone could see the pictures coming out of it). We never had to deal with such a situation but if child pornography was suspected, we would need to turn the film and prints over to the police.

On the other hand, if you have a digital camera, you might want to purchase your own photo printer (or a regular computer printer that prints photos). When you use special glossy paper, the prints from a home printer verses a photo labs' (which is typically just a more high end computer printer no a days) is almost indistinguishable. The cost is slightly lower too.

[Evoman]

37. I gotta ask...what constitutes indecent? People mooning? Nekkid?

[Odin2005]

32. WTF? this is insane!!!

I have plenty of "naked baby" pics from my under-5 years, I guess my parents are sick, even pervs, eh? :eyes:

[elias7]

33. Maybe they should stop selling diapers...

and outlaw potty training, since it really is just your way to sneak a peak or cop a feel, Walmart shoppers.

[azmouse]

35. There are days when I'm so ashamed of my state.

[Hekate]

36. When my children were babies I took pix of them in the tub. They were adorable...

My daughter was all blond and blue-eyed and as pink as a baby rose. My son had these big brown eyes and was just enough darker to really contrast with his sister. Bubbles in their hair. God, they were gorgeous. :loveya:

Of course this was in the Dark Ages of the late 1970s so nobody knew any better.

What the HELL is wrong with people? :cry:

Hekate

[flvegan]

38. 150 pictures from a family trip, 7 have nude/semi-nude children

Someone with half a brain could have looked at the content of the rest of the pics to determine if they were inappropriate. Are those same kids in a bunch of other pictures with family, friends, etc? If so, then obviously they're innocent family photos.

While I appreciate that there's a level of oversight in an attempt to thwart any sort of child exploitation, have some sense about it.

[Jennicut]

39. I guess I have something even worse then photos...I have video!

Of my 3 year old running around the backyard...she was in the pool with her sister and decided to strip down and run around naked in the backyard while we were filming them swimming. Needless to say, it was impromptu and we didn't set out to film that and its only a few seconds. Still, I don't show it to anyone either for my daughter's privacy and she is 5 now.

Innocent things like this are over sexualized in this country and its disgusting and Wal-Mart blows.

[katkat]

42. Why is any DUer setting foot in Walmart?

Is there a worse company in the U.S. in terms of its treatment of workers, buying made in China stuff, destroying Mom&Pop local businesses, etc.?

[wolfgangmo]

47. Best point yet.

I haven't set foot in a Walmart in over 15 years and I won't start now.

[demodonkey]

53. Because a family member needs a certain medical item that is only available locally at Wal-Mart.

Yes we could do mail-order of this item instead of going to the local Wal-Mart, but the shipping almost doubles the cost and the danger of running out and not being able to get more on time is great.

Am not going into this further, other than to say a family with medical problems doesn't need guilt for where we get our supplies heaped onto everything else we have to deal with.

[McCamy Taylor]

48. Hope they win big time. WalMart will only listen to $$$.

[DollyM]

50. how many naked butts on bear skin rugs are around of us?

I have one of my son when he was about 9 months old. It was printed without a problem. I have one of him and the neighbor girl when they were about 2 playing in the backyard pool and they had both stripped off their clothing. Good grief, don't we have enough real problems with expoitation and child abuse in this country without them going after people with naked pictures of there kids in the bath! There has been more damage done to those kids by putting them in foster care than anything! I say "sue their asses off!" (And we were foster parents in the state of Oklahoma for 11 years. And yes, we had kids placed in our home that shouldn't have been and kids returned to their parents that shouldn't have been. We were lied to and lied about by social workers and finally got fed up with seeing these kids jerked around by the system and us being a part of that!)

[slay]

51. Police state Wal-mart am your friend!

How can you have doubt? :sarcasm: Just one more reason never to shop there.

[crim son]

55. This is bullshit.

I disagree that for the good of womankind, parents should no longer take pictures of their kids in bathtubs. To equate an innocent picture with rape and abuse is just silly. I say this as a woman who has been raped, FWIW.

Our world has gone crazy.