Hey, we're still in Iraq.

[rbnyc]

I haven't spent this much time at DU for ages. It was at the height of the anti-war protests that I was last truly active in these forums. I met many of you at those protests.

Since then, I had a child and advanced greatly in my career and just stopped spending as much time online.

Recently, I've been drawn back here. I was just looking at my DU journal and reading some of my old posts. I was struck by a portion of a post I wrote after Saddam Husein was captured. I found it interesting to read all this time later. I just wanted to drop in and share.

I will post the piece of that post below, but first I want to ask you, how has your perspective changed over the many years of this war? How have your anti-war activities changed? Did you think we'd still be there by this time? How do you think this will/can end? Do you have any words from the earlier days of this invasion that you would like to resurrect and reflect upon? (And remember how everyone seemed to be watching us when Hussein was captured...just waiting for us to say something "unpatriotic?")

Here's the part of my post that just struck me enough to come and re-share:

"We all want a world with less poverty, less torture, fewer despots, more equity, less hypocrisy, and more democracy. Does the capture of Saddam Hussein today contribute to that aim? In some respects it does. In some respects, it does not. So I’m more concerned than elated.

When we support, fund and arm dictators, then cast them as villain as part of our own exported civil war, then take them down and call ourselves heroes, I’m more concerned than elated. His capture may contribute to an Iraq free of him but it also contributes to a world where America can build and destroy regimes at her own convenience.

When we say that Saddam Hussein is our reason for being in Iraq, the men and women who are risking their lives there may expect some relief when Saddam is captured. But that relief isn’t coming. So I’m more concerned than elated. His capture may be a relief to many in Iraq, but it also contributes to the mission-creep of an illegitimate occupier unfortunately composed of young human beings who will harm and be harmed.

There’s a reason that the ends do not justify the means. When a positive result is used to justify a violent, immoral and illegal act, we create a world that invites more violence, immorality, and crime. When a positive result is used to justify war, we create a world that invites more war.

Then there’s the question of justice. Is it just to hold one man accountable for horrors that were enabled and overlooked by those who judge him? Can any real justice come out of this situation?

It’s improbable, and looking at it in a good v. evil frame makes it less probable. So I’m not thrilled. I don’t think it’s great. I think the entire situation sucks. I’m simply not deluded enough to celebrate."

[dionysus]

1. wow. long time no see.

[rbnyc]

2. No doubt.

It's encouraging to see there's still so much thoughtful activity here.

I've just been stopping in and out today while prepping for my son's birthday party.

Yesterday I was compelled to post in the lounge something my son said that I thought was totally brilliant. ;-)

It's amazing how much our lives have changed. I feel guilty that I'm not as politically active as I used to be. I'm not inactive, but I'm definitely participating at a different level and am way more focused on my family and my job.

How are you?

[dionysus]

5. recovering from a herniated disc, but otherwise okay. it's amazing to think it's been 8 years on DU.

i joined DU shortly after starting my career in rochester, ny. This summer i had my 10th anniversary at work. time flies by so quickly!

a lot of the old time DUers haved moved on, new faces all the time. it's wierd when you feel that some posters have been here since the beginning, only to look and see they joineed in 04.

DU is nothing like it used to be now that we have a democrat in the white house. Nothing but infighting it seems, makes the primary battles look like patty cake!

glad all is well with you! :hi:

[bigtree]

3. the core of anti-war activism has mostly unchanged

What's discouraging (to me) is the number of folks we were able to attract to the cause to end the occupation before the election who've been pacified and mollified by the change in the WH. The effect of the continuing (and, in some cases, escalated) militarism from this new administration is a codifying of many of the false and contrived premises from the last WH which kept us bogged down there. I'll celebrate any move to withdraw, but I'm dismayed by the latest attempts to consolidate the power-grab in Iraq which was so thoroughly denounced when the last bunch was orchestrating it. They're content with keeping to the Bush rationale that their militarism in Iraq is somehow tied to our 'national security'. That's a recipe for more of the same - albeit, with a decidedly less ideological face. The reasoning is still fatally flawed, though.

[rbnyc]

4. Yes.

Well said.

[dionysus]

6. i am dissappointed as well that there seems to be no hurry to leave there.

i used to think the mission in afghanistan was worth it, and if we had done what we needed to do in the first few years of it maybe it would have been. but we've been there so long, what is really the point? what have we accomplished other than setting up a puppet govt in kabul? it's quite depressing.

[Solly Mack]

7. +1