Good op-ed piece by Frank Rich on Obama's irresponsible approach this past Summer...

[Postman]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/opinion/13rich.html?_r=1

[BlooInBloo]

1. Likely a fair criticism. One thing though...

"But there was little in the speech that Obama couldn’t have said at the summer’s outset. Its practical effect may prove nil."

Yes, it may. If he would have given the speech at the summer's outset, the nil effect would have been a *certainty*, not a possibility.

EDIT: And it would be better, in terms of talking about the effect the media has, to speak instead of the accumulated effects of *many days* worth of the 24-hour-news-cycle. This cuts both ways, validating Rich's criticism of Obama, and also my criticism of Rich.

[Ninga]

2. I beg to differ with your assessment. I would suggest that Rich questioned the wisdom

of Obama's timing and responsiveness. History will be the judge on his style. I read the article,and don't remember Rich using "irresponsible'.

[BlooInBloo]

3. Of course that's just whiner-DUer spin...

Although Rich (or the editor) of course did use the word "squandered", which I essentially criticised upthread.

[Ikonoklast]

4. Your words, not Rich's.

Your agenda is showing.

And Frank is in the minority in his assessment. Most political writers are saying he let them make fools of themselves, and then hammered them with his speech.

[Postman]

16. my agenda...

is single-payer.

Obama will have none of it.

What a Progressive......so far he's a sell-out.

[Ikonoklast]

20. Single payer would never get enough votes in either house of Congress.

You do not understand what is political reality. Single payer was a non-starter. It was never even considered, as it would have been DOA.

So, you are a purist. Purists never get what they want, or even part of what they want, because they refuse to negotiate. They would rather have 100% of nothing.

[Postman]

26. I'd rather have nothing....

than a bad bill.

Single-payer isn't considered because of the power of corporate money. I don't see Obama moving to handle that problem either.

I wonder if you use the "purist" argument against people who are against NAFTA. Those in gov't at the time it was passed said NAFTA would be a huge plus for the US as far as job creation. Didn't work out that way. In fact, Ross Perot was right.

Are you throwing the "purist" argument in the face of those who argue against NAFTA because, after all, even Obama is for NAFTA...

Are you an Obama cheerleader or an activist for the betterment of the country. It's possible to be both except I don't think Obama's holding up his end of the deal.

Yeah he's better than McCain/Palin. But what does that say?

I'm happy he's the President as opposed to what could have been, but when is he going to get off this ridiculous drive for bipartisanship with a bunch of crazy people who have no intention whatsoever of being bipartisan?

There's a word for repeatedly trying something that fails over and over again yet expecting a different result every time you try.....

[Ikonoklast]

27. The citizens that will get health care under a public option would

disagree with you.

Something is better than nothing, and if you want nothing, then be ready to explain to those people why they should die in the meanwhile from lack of adequate health care, while you hunt for perfection.

It is called attaining the possible. I'd rather have a slice of the pie, than no pie at all.

[leeroysphitz]

21. Who on earth ever, EVER said Obama was a progressive? He never claimed to be a progressive.

I voted for him, of course, but I did so knowing that he wasn't a progressive and wouldn't push an agenda reflecting my priorities.

Hell I would have voted for the reanimated corpse of Nixon before I voted for McCain and the screwball he chose as a running mate.

[scentopine]

5. LOL! Unrec fairies are hard at work aginst this heresy...

Why can't Frank Rich be a good "new" democrat?

[FrenchieCat]

6. Yeah...would have been good to repeat the Clinton Strategy!

Speech first, then let them tear you down for some time, then have no other big event to pull out.

Wasn't brilliant the first time, and it wouldn't have been any better this time.

Perhaps Rich can just concentrate on how the media sucks, since the magnitized the Town hall assholes, and never really mentioned that these were just the folks who had just lost an election.

[DevonRex]

7. Gee. I must have imagined the rallies he held even when RW nuts brought GUNS.

Let's see Frank Rich offer to take a bullet for the cause.

[jbnow]

31. Thanks for recalling! He went into red states and he dealt with

the policy lies and distortions and he explained the exchange and the public option and why it was important. He wanted questions from those who disagreed

The same town hall when blogs went nuts because Obama said the public option was 'a sliver, an aspect" of the whole of the plan (in response to the 2nd question about public option) they were probably in the bathroom when he gave the great first answer to it and got big applause when he explained why it was so important. He even raised the 3 main objections to it and addressed each of them.

Then for weeks the media are saying how Obama should explain his position and keep saying wrong things about the public option themselves while saying no one knows what it is. Maybe because the only parts of the town hall they showed was the guns and the "controversial" sliver statement so they could ask "Is Obama backing down?" To really add to the debate they could have played his strong clear answers.
They want to titillate not illuminate.

When I heard Obama was doing speech to Congress I figured it was the only way to get the message to people because the media filters it to just find what it "hot"

[Parker CA]

8. It's a strange week when I disagree with Rich and agree with Dowd. nt.

[BlooInBloo]

9. LOL!

[Cha]

12. Yeah, but there have been

stranger.:P

[Parker CA]

14. No doubt about that, Cha! My definitions of strange, over the top, too far, new low, and rational

have all basically lost their meanings since the GOP apparently has no limits whatsoever.

[shireen]

10. if any good came out of August, it brought the crazies out of the woodworks for all to see. nt

[Cha]

15. And, that's one good heck of a way

to see it.

[shireen]

25. what's that supposed to mean?

it HAS brought the nuts out of the dark, and it has opened the eyes of people who were otherwise oblivious to what is going on. not everyone is as well-versed about the issues as you and other DU'ers.

[Cha]

28. Sorry, it means I agree

with you.:)

[shireen]

29. sorry ... i'm feeling crabby today, it colors the way i see the world.

:hi:

[Cha]

30. Oh, I've been there..

:hi:

[Postman]

17. Yeah. Because nobody knew these people were crazy beforehand...

Give me a break.

[shireen]

24. DU exposes us to a lot of the crap that goes on ...

but most people who rely on conventional media don't know how bad it is.

you need to broaden your perspective ....

[MarjorieG]

11. We knew we had to go Dem alone, but proving it publically important.

[theophilus]

13. Why don't we just wait and see if Mr. Obama gets it done? Patience Frankie.... n/t

[kentuck]

18. I seldom disagree with Frank Rich but...

I do not agree with him on this point. If he wishes to brand anyone as "irresponsible", I think it should be the Congress. The President did not take the month of August off. He took off about 1 week to go to Martha's Vineyard. Other than that, he was working on healthcare and the best message to get it across to the people. The townhall disruptions could have been much worse. But the Democratic Congress did not want to address the healthcare issue until after they came back from their August recess. The President wanted it done before the recess. I don't think Frank is being totally fair with the President.

[Postman]

19. "irresponsible" is my word...

not Frank Rich.

[kentuck]

22. But his meaning was very similar, in my opinion.

For example, he says in the article, "But support for his signature program declined, not least because he gave others carte blanche to define it for him." He says that he "squandered the summer". I don't agree with that.

[dccrossman]

23. 4th time I've seen this article posted today

Some of the others have had more "exciting" threads, but it all seems to be the same.

In my opinion, given that it is speculation, it is possible that a speech at the beginning of the summer would have made a difference, but there really is no sure way to tell, as Rich admits in the article. Possibly, he could have moved Democratic Senators to do their jobs more quickly, but I still doubt we could have had a final bill by August.

Having said that, I think, as has been postulated elsewhere, that Obama's team was playing by looking back at the Clinton playbook. They saw the upfront bill from the administration that they then tried to "force" through Congress. (Revisionist history in full swing.) So, they went to the opposite extreme, though they might argue that the vague comments and speeches that have been coming out since April should be counted.

If you look at the strategy of Obama throughout the campaign, he never came out as hard and as fast as we wanted. Somehow it worked out for them. I guess its a question of who you are appealing to (or who you need to appeal to).

I don't know that I fully agree with Rich that the "damage has been done". He's over-dramatizing to some extent there, given that polls still trust Obama over Congress on Health Care and still overwhelmingly support a Public Option.

I think there's a question there on whether the idiocy displayed will hurt the (R)'s in the long term, given that Newt and Laura Bush came out and called the extremists on the school speech. Then all of the foolishness displayed in DC on the 12th. I don't think that Independents respond to that mess. I think it turns them off. Long term, in the political sense here, being 2010. All expectations are being set that we'll lose a lot ground in the mid-terms. We the craziness of this summer (likely to be pushed by Fox all the way through next summer), be enough to keep Independents leaning (D)? Impossible to tell right now. Something that be called Health Care Reform, and believed, will need to pass.

On my own, I'd like Medicare to be made available to all and all Congress critters forced to use Medicare under the new system, as well as their aides. It's amazing how many of my conservative friends are willing to consider this position, once I include the thought about Congress critters.

Here's hoping.

:kick: