'Sexting' Results In 16-Year-Old's Arrest

[The Straight Story]

'Sexting' Results In 16-Year-Old's Arrest

JOHNSTOWN, Colo. -- When a classmate asked her to text him nude photos of herself, she said, "no", and immediately told her mom, police said.

That set off a chain of events that led to the 16-year-old boy's arrest, police said.

...

“I was texting who I thought was a friend and he asked if I would do a favor for him. And I said, ‘What’s that?’ And he said, ‘Really, you will?’ And I said, ‘What?’ And he said, ‘I want you to send me photos, but they have to be of what I want. Umm, no clothes.’”

Jade immediately showed her mother the text conversation.

“I was angry and frightened and disgusted,” said Kim Torske. “She is 14! He just thought that because she was young, she might go along with it. That she might be willing to send nude pics.”

Torske contacted the police who confiscated Jade’s phone. The police arrested the boy on charges of enticement, contributing to the delinquency of a minor, harassment and tampering with evidence because police said the boy had erased all the text messages on his phone.

“The school has been very supportive of Jade and of us as a family. They put a counselor in place immediately for her,” said Torske.

But the Weld County district attorney has thrown out the case and said it will not pursue any charges.

...

Jade said she feels like crying every time she sees the boy at school. She recently took a vow of purity at her church.

“My parents raised me well,” said Jade. “I just feel with how bold he was with me, I’m not the first one he’s done this to.”

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/20845207/detail.html

[BlooInBloo]

1. With the specific details as stated, this sounds reasonable.

Emphasis on "specific details as stated".

[rug]

2. A DA with common sense.

[LisaL]

18. My guess would be if the kid himself is a minor.

If he were over 18, I presume he would have been charged with trying to corrupt a minor or something along these lines.

[rug]

27. The article says he is 16.

[LisaL]

36. Yea I know that.

Since he is a minor it's not surprising DA wouldn't charge him.
Which I think might have been different (but what do I know?) if he were over 18.

[KittyWampus]

3. Glad the young lady's parents stuck up for her, glad the boy was arrested, glad he was released

Or should I say young man.

Hope this helped him learn some manners even if it's the hard way.

[Toasterlad]

227. I'd Say the Trauma Of Being Arrested Is Far More Damaging Than Anything That Stupid Girl Suffered.

That boy should sue for false arrest, and sue that kid and her parents for all the hassle they put him through. Ignorant, stupid, backwards jackasses.

[tularetom]

4. I was totally on her side until I read this sentence

"She recently took a vow of purity at her church."

I'm still kind of on her side. Being the father of a daughter and having gone through all the bullshit of her teenage years (even though it was 30 years ago) I can understand her mother's anger. I would have wanted to rip off the little scumbag's head and shit down his neck.

But what validity does a vow of purity made by a 14 year old have? The sap isn't even halfway up the trunk yet and nowhere near the leaves. In another year or two the pressure she will feel to break that vow will be internal rather than from her peers. She should not be made to feel guilty if she slips up. And churches should flat stay the fuck out of it.

[seabeyond]

8. i didnt like that part either. can still be her side. nt

[Kaleva]

9. The vow is irrelevant to the boy's actions

[renate]

14. I don't go to church but I don't have anything against people who do

(I'm not saying you have anything against them either.)

If she goes to church, and not having premarital sex is one of the tenets of her faith, then I don't see why taking a vow of purity is such a bad thing to do.

What creeps me out is the father-daughter purity ceremonies or dances or whatever hot Freudian messes some people are into. But a vow at her church? If she took it willingly, why not? :shrug:

[LeftyMom]

17. Because she's fourteen. She doesn't know what she's promising yet.

And because there's nothing wrong with having consensual sex when you're ready, and anybody who tells you otherwise is a controlling weirdo who deserves a sharp kick in the 'nads.

[Kaleva]

21. And this justifys the boys behaviour in what way?

[LeftyMom]

23. What does it have to do with justifying the boys' behavior?

I'm just saying that in the long run the use of religious authority to fill a developing girl with shame about sex is almost certainly more harmful than the stupid behavior of a horny teenage boy.

[Kaleva]

31. I think you are making an assumption

There's no way anyone of us know if the girl is filled with shame about sex because of religion. I know from the time I was in school (so long ago) that one could tease certain girls while others would get very upset or outraged by my actions. Religion, or the absence of it, didn't make the girls respond the way they did. It was their own personalities.

[LeftyMom]

33. That's how these churches that do "purity vows" and stupid shit like that work.

BTDT. Not, as I hinted downthread, that it worked. Hormones are more powerful than Jezoid brainwashing.

[Toasterlad]

228. Why Does the Boy's Behavior Need Justifying?

He's a 16 year old boy. He's fucking horny. He asked a girl for naked pictures. He didn't rape her. He didn't sexually assault her. He didn't abuse her in any way. He asked her for naked pictures, and she said "no". The matter should have ended there.

That girl should be taken away from her ignorant asshat parents and given to someone who teach her not to be so fucking stupid about sex.

[rebecca_herman]

120. and on the flip side

there's nothing wrong with choosing to wait until marriage, a long term relationship, or adulthood, if that's what the individual feels is right for them. I don't think it's fair to accuse someone of automatically being brainwashed. I decided at a similarly young age to this girl that I wished to wait until marriage for sex. I'm 24 and still waiting, because it *gasp* turned out to be the correct choice for me as an individual with my individual values.

Personally, I was raised in a household that was not very religious (we celebrated holidays and not much else) and I still would have been very upset by an incident like this and also gone to my mother for comfort and help. I was not a mature (when it comes to relationships/sex) 14 year old and would have been completely freaked out by a request like that from a boy, and would not have even wanted to be NEAR him at school after that. It would have been very upsetting to me to be told flat out that a specific boy wanted to see me naked. Kids develop at different rates and what might not have bothered you in the slightest as a teen could be very upsetting to someone else with a different level of emotional maturity. Honestly I'd still be bothered by such a request and would probably curse the guy out and tell him to never speak to me again.

[LeftyMom]

135. Oh jesus.

I don't even know where to start. :rofl:

[rebecca_herman]

201. what's so funny?

I'm not a Christian, I'm not religious, I'm not brainwashed. Is it too weird to you that someone who is not those things genuinely wishes to postpone having sex? The reasons I wish to wait are serious enough for *me* that they outweigh everything else. I don't see how someone making a choice in their best interests is something to be laughed at. I flat out, based on health concerns, cannot take *any* risk of pregnancy right now, nor do I feel a sexual relationship is something I need right now when I have more important things related to my health to worry about. Nor do I see what is amusing about the fact that some girls that age are not as developed sexually, have not yet developed an interest in sex, and are disturbed by the realization that a classmate that have to see every day wishes to see them naked. I pretty much felt boys and sex were gross until I was around 16-17, I just flat out developed late and it would have bothered me. (and still bother me, just not to the point where I'd be emotionally traumatized, I'd just be angry and avoid that person in the future)

[TorchTheWitch]

166. at that age it would have upset me too

Now in my 40's it just pisses me off. However, even at the age I am now, it could still be very upsetting depending on the circumstances. If someone I considered a friend and trusted and believed they considered me a person and not a piece of meat they wanted to exploit asked me to give them nude photos, yeah, I'd be really fucking upset. And that's happened many times. Yes, it hurts to find out the hard way that someone you believed liked you for YOU turns out to not only just want to get in your pants but wants you to give them the opportunity to exploit you to their friends and even the whole world via the internet.

[verges]

213. Are you saying that it's wrong

(or worse, impossible)to find someone sexually attractive whom you also respect as a human being? Because that's what I just got from your post.

[Toasterlad]

229. Then Why Should He Pay For Your Immaturity?

The objection here is that this boy was punished only because the girl was too immature to handle what happened. It's not the boy's fault she was too immature. He should not have to pay a price for being 16 and horny.

The proper response to a 14 year old girl coming to you in hysterics about a boy wanting to see her naked is NOT to call the police as if she'd just been insulted. It's to calm her down and explain to her that many boys want to have sex with girls, that it's normal, and that she's free to say "no" until she's ready. And perhaps a call to the boy's parents to ask them to tell him not to ask your daughter for nude photos anymore, if you feel you must take that step.

[LisaL]

247. Well at least you think she is free to say no.

She isn't obligated to send naked photos of herself. What a relief.
:eyes:

[Toasterlad]

252. Exactly. Therefore, the Boy Did Nothing Wrong.

As I said, it's not his fault she's an immature, hysterical mess. It's her parents fault.

[LisaL]

270. Do you have any comprehension of US laws?

The girl is 14 years old. By definition she isn't mature. Do you realize that under our laws, minors under certain age are considered incapable of giving consent to sexual activities?
What do you think would happen if an adult messes with a 14 years old and then tries to argue it's her fault that she is an "immature mess?" Get a clue.

[Toasterlad]

272. Get a Clue Yourself. The Boy Was Also a Minor.

And since the DA dismissed the charges, I'm guessing the law agrees. Do you realize that under our laws, some things aren't illegal just because you think they should be?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

61. oh no. not a purity bowel attendee.

[BlooInBloo]

74. As a father friend of mine put it: "when you have a boy, you worry about 1 dick...

when you have a girl, you worry about them ALL."

:rofl:

[liquid diamond]

199. Why give these people shit for taking their so called purity vows?

Some teenagers have sex some don't. It is their decision.

[tularetom]

217. The purity vows won't stop this girl from having sex

But it will make here feel like a ho when she does.

[seabeyond]

218. btu maybe it will allow her time to have the insight not to have sex with that asshole

that asks over a phone for some neekid pictures.

i know a lot of young girls, both religious (living in a large fundie area) and otherwise that can figure these things out. at 14 they are saying purity. at 16 theya re saying, not a sin to have sex outside of marriage, but.... is a time to be responsible and chose someone want to have sex with, ect...

it is a process

this girl is not hopeless regardless what so many on this thread would like to pin her with

[liquid diamond]

230. As if sex is an unstoppable force. As if all teens have sex. As if all yield to their desires.

Why won't you address that?

[tularetom]

235. How many kids do you have?

I have two. They are both in their 40's now. They both did. Actually I know my daughter did because she had to get married at age 19. And I'm pretty sure about my son although fortunately it appears there were no consequences.

I don't know that ALL teens have sex, but I can guarantee you whether they do or not they all spend a lot of time thinking about it.

Shit, I'm 68 years old and I spend a lot of time thinking about sex. Not much time doing it, you see, but thinking about it, yes.

[liquid diamond]

236. What does it matter?

The points that I made do not require me to have children. So what if kids think about sex? That does not mean they will do it. I'm just disturbed at how people here demonize kids that choose to remain "pure". I agree "pure" is a loaded term that suggests sex is dirty, but I don't think they should be criticized for being abstinent in their teenage years. Just as a sexually active teen should not be called a slut and whore. It works both ways.

[tularetom]

240. I'm not demonizing anyone, honest

And I respect any decision this girl makes regarding sex. I would hope it would be HER decision however and not one made for her by an adult authority figure who she is afraid of (such as her pastor). All I am saying i, if and when she has sex she is going to have a lot of guilt because of this stupid purity vow.

[Hepburn]

274. Ditto... n/t

[LeftyMom]

5. "She recently took a vow of purity at her church."

I'm more disturbed by that than the sexting.

[proteus_lives]

193. Wow, really?

[Schema Thing]

6. Jade needs new parents

"Jade said she feels like crying every time she sees the boy at school. She recently took a vow of purity at her church."

[Ilsa]

25. It sunds like her parents are partly responsible for making her internalize fear or shame or

some other emotional distress over this. Then again, the girl is only 14, and at that age, they tend to be sensitive anyway.

[TCJ70]

73. Why?

[Schema Thing]

150. please don't breed

[Hepburn]

275. Because it appears that she feels guilty over the incident...

...and she should not.

[Chemisse]

83. Yeah that is an overreaction

Probably encouraged by her parents.

The guy asked her to send nude pictures. She said no and got him in trouble. Unless she is concerned about him trying to get even with her, then it is the end of the story.

For god sakes, she wasn't raped; this should not be cause for lasting trauma.

[rebecca_herman]

202. Not neccesarily

I would have been just as distressed (minus the religion part, as I grew up in a liberal Jewish family) and I was not religious as a teen, nor did I receive any religious instruction from my parents besides historical stuff. I simply was a late developer emotionally and it would be upsetting to me to know a classmate wanted to see me that way when I still found boys and sex to be gross and horrific.

[blueamy66]

237. I wouldn't have been upset.

I would have been thrilled and happy that a boy found me attractive.

[seabeyond]

238. oh goody thinks attractive. oh goody he likes me. nah, not really

it is all about getting a naked picture of a girl, any girl, she doesnt matter. just some tits to show what a man these boys are. they can get a girl to send a picture of tits and then can show to all their friends.... wow, arent they special, they have tits.

now

how special are you?

[flvegan]

7. I am so glad I'm not 16 these days.

To think that, it would seem, I could have a girlfriend that I'm getting crazy freaky with after school and every weekend totally with her consent. I could send her a text asking her to send me a picture of her boobs (not that I'd EVER do that). Her dad could see that text and have me brought up on charges.

Worse, if I recorded or took pics of us having sex (again, totally with her consent) and anyone sees them, I'm a child pornographer.

If this series of events in the article did happen this way, then the kid was in the wrong for the request. This topic seems to be a slippery slope of dangerous proportions.

[seabeyond]

10. i guess you can see yourself as victim thru it all or you can say

i am glad i am not 16

and have people video taping consensual sexual act and putting on net, or asking for picture with boyfriend and then having it distributed in locker room ect....

as i have told boys and would hope parents tell daughters, .... think thru to consequences.

not a bad lesson to learn young

(btw, this is not a snarky response, lol. pretty much respect your positions)(understanding my reputation, dont want misread)

[Occulus]

204. Their brains literally do not "think thru to consequences"; they're not fully developed yet

What you're asking them to do is something many literally are incapable of doing yet. Many of them are actually incapable of learning that lesson because of their age.

When I think back, if I were to go back in age, but not time, and relive my life up to now exactly as I did before, I would beyond any doubt whatever have been in or would be in jail right now. That's not to say I committed crimes- no, I was a music geek with a 3.85 GPA- but that the things I did do would be serious crimes today. Crimes with horrible, horrible consequences, given the wrong prosecutor.

We have become far too "Law & Order" in this country. Do you know the text of every last law under which you live? No? Shame on you. Ignorance of the law is not a defense.

"But... I don't do anything illegal!!"

Yes, you do... you just haven't been caught. You don't even know you did it, whatever it is, but there's probably a law on the books somewhere that each and every last reader of this site has violated at one time or another... without even knowing they did it.

See how absurd it gets?

We have too many laws. Period. And it's destroying lives that should not be destroyed.

Keep in mind- the prosecutor could have thrown the book at the kid, and it could have ended up with him on the sex offender's registry in his state, probably for life. That's one fuck of a "lesson".

[seabeyond]

214. they cant think things thru, not capable per you. but we say go for it with sex

are you telling me a person does not have to be responsible. that it isnt a big deal. we say they dont have to be responsible cause they are not ready, but they are ready for sex. we give them a car and say go for it. again another privilige they have while they are incapable of thinking things thru

what a parent does is tell them the things to watch out for. they have been informed and are aware.

so what we do as parents is we educate them

dont make teens out to be stupid and incapable. i refuse. and in refusing to make them incapable and stupid i have a teen that is not incapable and stupid

i just love the argument that kids arent capable of thinking things thru yet we demand to allow them activities that require responsibility.

not being responsible with sex can end up with a child for a life time. that is one fucked up life lesson at 15. getting drunk and driving can end your life. that is one fucked up lesson at 16.

all the cases i hear people argue the sex offenders list. they are not putting these kids on the list. when i see ONE kid on the list, then i will buy that argument.

[seabeyond]

215. my son walked in room and i told him, kid asked for girl naked picture, she showed message to mom

kid arrested.

now he knows.

i told son college adn jobs going on net to see what kids are about and not getting into colleges, not getting jobs.

now he knows

told him boys taking girls picture into locker room, betraying girls trust, sending out to other schools. girl kills self out of humiliation.

now he knows

told him kid takes girl picture, sends to friends and puts on net. arrested and on sex offender list cause over 18. effected a lifetime

now he knows

[depakid]

12. Yep- the nation's essentially declared war on its youth in many more ways than one

[LeftyMom]

13. God, I know.

You've heard some of the crazy shit I was up to at that age. They'd lock me away now.

[LisaL]

20. It's the age of the person who is been asked to send a photo

that plays a role. The girl in the OP story was 14. Him being 16, I imagine, helped him rather than hurting him. And by the way if it were an adult male asking a 14 year old to send naked photos, I imagine quite a few comments wouldn't be so sympathetic.

[EndersDame]

24. An adult is different from a teenager asking another teenager

[LisaL]

26. Yea by a couple of years.

[EndersDame]

29. You were never curious in high school?

As I stated above I have asked to see one of my guy friend's junk . Teens will be teens but if the girl had said no and he forced her to take nude pics that would be different story .

[Chemisse]

88. The story didn't mention any pressure

Or coercion on the part of the boy. Knowing 16 year old boys, I can totally understand the request being made. In a previous generation, it would have been, 'show me your boobs' rather than texting.

[Occulus]

205. A couple of years is the difference in actual brain capability

allowing young people to think ahead and consider future consequences.

Believe it or not, their brains aren't capable of that sort of thinking until that part actually develops. It's different per gender, but it's somewhere near the early 20's.

That's my understanding, anyway. Our brains take a lot longer to develop fully than most people realize. It's one of the reasons we charge people as minors, or throw out charges altogether.

[LostInAnomie]

49. +1

[Jennicut]

11. Back when I was in high school in the early 90's there was no sexting and cell phone pics.

I wonder how many kids would have gotten in trouble back then.
That being said, this kid should not have been harassing this girl. I wouldn't have liked that either at that age and was proudly a virgin until I was 23 and I have only been with one person...my current husband. No need to take a vow of purity. I just didn't feel like having sex with an immature jerk who was likely to only want one thing. So I waited.

[EndersDame]

15. I have asked to see a guys junk when I was in high school

Was a curious teenaged girl I am glad camera phones were quite expensive still.

[Selatius]

16. We were more worried about kids bringing guns/homemade bombs to school when I was a teen.

Of course, back in the 90s, cell phone use was nowhere near as prevalent as it is today.

[Kaleva]

We used to make bombs in machine shop class

[Pangolin2]

71. So did we and we made the nitroglycerin for them in the chemistry lab.

Hell, I'd be surprised if they let students electrolyze H and O from water these days.
:eyes:

[abumbyanyothername]

19. As the (noncustodial) father of a 16 yo boy

who was recently suspended from school for (according to his version) consensually hugging a friend, I would just say that the facts in these situations are often far from clear.

I'm not saying that I totally buy my kid's version of his situation and I am typically not invited into the discipline discussions at his home. Not that I can do anything about it from a distance of 1500 miles anyway.

The kid has problems that extend beyond the alleged offense but he seems not ready to deal with those yet.

[Shandris]

22. Wait a second...

This is exactly 'harassment' here, he asked her one time for something thats unbelievably common in schools right now. I get the feeling there's more to this story than is being told (like usual) but now this kid is going to get the Sex Offender tag and have the bulk of his life ruined. This isn't a case of equivalency here.

At the same time, I completely understand the need of the mother to try to protect her daughter. I'm just saying that there has GOT to be a more appropriate method not only of parenting about this kind of thing, but of dealing with the action. I wish I had the answer of what that would be, but I can't claim to. What I CAN claim is that the most likely outcome of this is not in any way comparable to what happened.

[Kaleva]

32. I think one has to be convicted before being labeled a sex offender

The DA threw out the charges.

[seabeyond]

35. following these cases, i have yet to see any of the teens put on the list.

people keep arguing this is what will happen. but it isnt what is happening.

[nicky187]

28. Sexting?

Is that what Rep. Cantor was doing during the Joint Session of
Congress?

[tomm2thumbs]

34. I'll bet he was trying to avoid the awkward Lindsey Graham clapping errors - he's such a dolt

he'd always get it wrong where to clap and where to sit on his hands, so he figured he'd type away looking remarkably more nerdy than he usually does. I'm surprised he actually knows how to use a phone's buttons other than the number-ones.

[inna]

30. absolutely ridiculous. he should not have been arrested. nt

[Vinca]

37. I hate to think a dumb 16 year old kid will be branded for life

for doing something really stupid. Back in the dark ages (and we're talking the age of Univac), teenage boys would try just about anything to get a peek at a boob. I bet some of them are now in Congress.

[Kaleva]

43. How is he going to get branded for life?

The DA threw the case out.

[Vinca]

53. If his name is on the Internet anywhere associated with this case -

and I can guarantee it is, even if he's a minor, because his friends will be chatting about it - even though charges were dropped, someday a potential employer will "check the google" and decide not to hire him. Or a landlord might decide not to rent to him. It must be terrifying to have kids on the Internet. A bare bottom here, a lewd remark there and next thing you know you spend your life apologizing for being a stupid kid.

[seabeyond]

60. ding ding ding. so parents better start taking serious and teaching kids to think, be responsible

and look at consequences of their action cause it is all on the net and can effect them for fuckin ever.

their world.

and they had better start taking all this seriously

[Odin2005]

38. I'm more disturbed by the "purity vow" crap than the sexing.

What the boy did is assholish and rude, but the "purity" crap is going to mess that girl up far more than some jerk boy.

[Kaleva]

39. It's not for us to decide what should or should not traumatize the 14 year old

I also think though that the DA did the right thing and didn't pursue the case.

[abumbyanyothername]

40. And it's not up to her parents either. nt

[LisaL]

41. Hah?

Did you read the article? It's not one of the cases where a mother snooped around and found out what went on. The 14 year old went to her mother and told her.

[abumbyanyothername]

50. I'm talking about the purity vow.

I don't really have a dog in the hunt as to whether the boy ought to have been arrested or not.

I am male and at 16 I was sexually aggressive although I understood, even at 16, that no means no. I never asked anyone to send me naked photos, but I did ask to have sex.

I have a daughter and I feel like she was raised so that by the time she was 14 she could handle herself and most of the boys who were still boys. We definitely did not ask her to take a purity vow or anything silly like that.

How about, "I pledge to never grow taller than 5'5" tall?" or "I pledge never to get hungry and eat"?

[TCJ70]

63. Your examples don't make sense...

...because she can't choose how tall she is or whether or not she gets hungry. Are you saying that she has no choice in whether or not she has sex? I don't see what the big deal is with this pledge. Who cares?

[seabeyond]

51. but... the aprent does not have the RIGHT to parent a teen

i guess... lol

[McCamy Taylor]

42. 16 yo boy and 14 yo girl are both minors. This was sexual harassment, not attempted rape.

The next time a high school boy asks a girl for sex, will they prosecute him for attempted child rape?

This should have been handled by the school as a case of sexual harassment.

[LisaL]

44. I think that could depend on ages of the participants.

[Kaleva]

45. The boy wasn't charged with attempted rape.

[anigbrowl]

92. Not even harassment, which is a pattern of persistent annoyance

'do you wanna (sexual proposition)?'
'No!'
'OK'

...is not harassment...but I get that you were making just a general comment rather than a strict legal definition.

[Indenturedebtor]

115. No kidding. I can't believe how big of a deal was made of this

Granted the kid is rude and perverted but he's 16 ffs. Most 16 year old boys are rude and perverted.

[seabeyond]

116. really? and this is to be expected. we can expect no more than rude and

perverted from our teenage boys?

[anigbrowl]

122. We really don't know what actually happened

It would not surprise me in the least if Mrs. Torske discovered her little princess topless in the bathroom photographing the mirror an demanded to know why. If you look at the original story the 'issue' is that the girl's mom is mad that the DA didn't follow through and press charges.

Another thing you notice is that the boy isn't named (for legal reasons, he probably can't be) but this girl's Mom has chosen to go public with her name and that of her daughter - which I'll bet is in some attempt to make public the ' purity commitment' etc. etc.

Do you think it's appropriate for a 14-year old girl's identity and virginity to made into matters of public news in CO and indeed the whole country now? I guarantee you horny teen boys are scouring the net for everything from her home address to her yearbook photos right this minute...all because her Mom wants to announce the existence of her purity vow as widely as possible.

[seabeyond]

124. i think it is possible

to teach our boys to behave in respectful manners and suggesting they are rude and perverts only feed into a culture that already has lowered the bar for them so. kinda like it is just not cool to be smart. something my son is always facing, but rejects.

all the other stuff,. ... really dont have a lot to say in any of these directions. a call to parent would have worked for me. parents calling kids on behavior works for me.

i see a lot larger issues going on with the phone than this, and some of the guys seem to ignore those issue, crying out innocent horniness. but that is another thread.

[Indenturedebtor]

129. Have you ever hit on a man? n/t

[seabeyond]

131. i dont think "hitting" on a man is rude or perverted. so what is the point. nt

[Indenturedebtor]

137. Well some people aren't very good at making passes.. some people only want sex

How do you propose they proposition other people? Should we codify your method into law?

[seabeyond]

143. do you know anything about my "method". the only thing i argued is i dont think

all male and per poster half female are rude and perverse. that is the only thing i have talked about in this subthread. what you make up as my position really doesnt have a whole hell of a lot to do with me.

[Indenturedebtor]

127. Pretty much... and half the girls I grew up with were rude and perverted

It's not a job for the judicial system to root out perversion in teenagers. I mean FFS all he did was proposition her. Adults do it all the time... Women do it too, in case you weren't aware.

[seabeyond]

i havent argue any of this. i do challenge that our youth and male especially

can be expected to be no more than rude and perverted.

[Indenturedebtor]

138. I don't think that all of them are, but many always have been and probably most always will be

We should teach them to keep a lid on that ish, but this same kind of line works pretty well on someone who wants to see you naked too.

[seabeyond]

147. the reason i challenge the "teenage boys are rude and perverse" is used to justify

condition, feed much worse behavior that is not acceptable or more hurtful than what happened in this op

[TorchTheWitch]

174. bullshit - harrassment in no way requires more than one instance

If some strange guy on the street asks me to suck his dick ONCE that is sexual harrassment. If a male coworker tells me he wants me to bend over the desk and show him my ass ONCE that is sexual harrassment. Granted, someone asking you to give them nude photos of yourself is a mild instance of sexual harrassment, but it IS sexual harrassment and only needs to occur ONCE to be so.

It's stalking that needs to show more than one instance to be considered stalking, not harrassment.

[anigbrowl]

185. apples =/= oranges

I think you'll find that the law in many jurisdictions does not support your general point (in the subject line) and your specific examples all include completely different contexts from the one reported here.

[Gwendolyn]

188. Hmmm... I can virtually guarantee you...

that if you become so friendly with a male co-worker that you have a relationship outside the office, and one night while texting back and forth he asks for your naked pics, the cops would laugh at you if you called them accusing sexual harassment. Complain at the office, and human resources would admonish you as well as the man for your after-work friendship, if they wanted to get involved at all.

[TorchTheWitch]

203. who said anything about being involved with the coworker?

WFF??? I gave an example of sexual harrassment by a coworker to demonstrate that only ONE instance is required for there to be sexual harrassment... where the hell does being involved with the person come in??? I didn't say a fucking thing about there being any relationship other than as a coworker!

[Gwendolyn]

206. If you wanted the example to even remotely resemble that of the OP...

it would've had to be a friendship with the co-worker outside the office. WTF does a "bend over the desk" example have to do with the OP? Nothing.

When a friend you've been chatting with comes on to you during the course of conversation, I would say that's about a 1000 miles away from the drastic examples you've given and isn't even remotely in the sexual harassment vein at all. I guess any time a guy leans in for a kiss after a date that constitutes sexual harassment as well? Based on your logic. Such hysteria.

[LisaL]

245. You really don't seem to have an understanding

of what is considered sexual harassment at work. Do you have a job?
If you do have a job, didn't anyone ever teach you on what constitutes sexual harassment?
Something as trivial as a comment made regarding someone's appearance could be considered sexual harassment.

[Gwendolyn]

246. Um, yes, I do have a job. I have employees in fact and am well-versed

in what constitutes sexual harassment on the job. A situation totally removed from the OP, which occurred in a social context. As someone else said, apples and oranges, so why even bring it up?

Historically, people have managed to forge relationships and get together for sex because one or the other makes a move. That is not sexual harassment. It's an offer. In this case the boy offered a sexual relationship. She said no. End of story. If he had continued to badger her, THEN it would constitute sexual harassment. By your logic, anyone offering to buy someone a drink in a bar is sexually harassing him/her.

[LisaL]

248. So you think that after job, anything goes?

If you send a text message to one of your employees, do you think you can say anything there that you felt like saying?

[seabeyond]

249. so the boss can call you at home and say he wants to fuck you

just cant say it to you in office.

well hey

ok

[Gwendolyn]

268. You're being reactionary and ridiculous as usual.

No your boss can't just call you at home and spew sexual comments. But if you become friends with your boss outside the office, and much later he puts the moves on you, you'll have a MUCH harder time trying to prove sexual harassment. And even if they disciplined or fired the boss, you might find your own ass out the door sometime in the near future. Companies don't like that shit.

[seabeyond]

269. not reactionary, snarky. you are wrong in accessment.... as usual. wink. nt

[Gwendolyn]

250. No of course not... they're my employees and I respect them.

If I were to suddenly text them at home with some sordid sexual message that would affect their comfort level at work it would get me fired. On the other hand, if I DO become friendly with a co-worker outside the office, socialize with him alone, call and text him at home and he subsequently makes a move, I don't really have a leg to stand on if I then complain to HR. I should never have let it get that far, and if in my bad judgement I did, I'm left to sort it out myself. At my company, if a complaint like that were made under the circumstances I illustrated, they'd probably try to find a way to get rid of us both.

But again, what does this have to do with the OP? Neither one works for the other. It's purely social context and there is no power play at work.

[TorchTheWitch]

259. same as school

and incidents between classmates that occur outside of school count just as much as occuring at school - just as incidents between coworkers need not occur AT work.

In the case in the OP, the only reason criminal charges aren't being pressed is because the kid is a minor. If he was 18 or older there is no question whatsoever that this would be criminal as what he tried to entice the 14 year old to do is illegal.

[Gwendolyn]

266. No it's not the same at school.

Kids at school bully, grope, flirt, fight, make-out, skip class, act obnoxiously, and engage in a myriad of other behaviors that would NEVER be tolerated in the workplace. However, if the boy had made sexual advances toward the girl AT school, such as "bend over the desk and show me your ass" it would be treated with as much seriousness as such a thing occurring at work. If a boy makes advances toward a girl "friend" outside of school, the result is muddier, just as it would be if someone made advances to a co-worker "friend" outside the workplace. In the latter, a one-time "offer" for sex does NOT constitute sexual harassment.

You're right, incidents between co-workers need not occur AT work. A lunch meeting, an office get-together, walking to the car park together are such occasions when unwanted surprise advances can result in discipline or firing. But these have NOTHING to do with the situation in the OP which is a FRIEND to FRIEND issue. That's why this comparison with professionals in a work environment sucks so much.

[Chemisse]

94. I agree - involving the police was a bit of overkill

And apparently the DA agreed.

[LostInAnomie]

46. So, we're supposed to applaud the fact that a kid is going to spend the rest of his life...

... on a sex offender registry for asking to see another teenager nude?

Great priorities we have here.

[LisaL]

48. Why do people that don't read the article feel the need to comment?

He isn't being prosecuted.

[LostInAnomie]

58. He shouldn't have even been charged.

[Kaleva]

52. One has to be convicted first I believe before being on a sex offenders list

[Posteritatis]

69. It varies by state

At least a few years ago - I'm not sure if it's the case now - you could get on the registry in Michigan without even going to trial. It just needed a tip or denunciation or whatever the term is in that situation. To make it even better, you weren't allowed to challenge it for a few years, after which the burden of proof was on you, not the people making the initial accusations.

[Kaleva]

91. It says here one has to be convicted to be on the list

"The SOR was established in 1994 by the Michigan Sex Offenders Registration Act
(Public Acts 286, 287, 294 and 355 of 1994). The Act created the SOR database in
response to the Jacob Wetterling Crimes Against Children and Sexually Violent
Offender Registration Act (42 USC 14071 et seq.) of 1994. This federal act required
states to establish specific requirements for persons convicted of certain crimes against
minors and those convicted of sexually violent offenses."

[Posteritatis]

101. Well, it says one convicted has to be on the list

Which is different from saying one has to be convicted to be on it; there's room for other possibilities.

I'm going to try to see if I can somehow dig up the articles I'd originally found about it. I'd love to be wrong about it in any case...

(Ed. - Ah! I was wrong to a point - it was Ohio, not Michigan. Though the Toledo Blade article on it (from around September '06) seems to have vanished.. now to dig further..)

[Kaleva]

103. I think it would be terribly wrong to put people on the list just because they were accused

[Posteritatis]

106. I agree entirely (and found my source on it)

I found the article, incidentally - it was Ohio, not Michigan, and back in August '06:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060829/NEWS24/608290360/-1/NEWS

I'm not sure how stable that is; the first time I found it a few minutes ago I got redirected to the front page, but it worked fine that time. Let me know if it's viewable on your end?

[Kaleva]

114. Wow! A lousy bill if I ever saw one.

[Posteritatis]

121. It'd take some work to be worse than that, wouldn't it? (nt)

[darkstar3]

47. Oh FFS...

The fact that "sexting" is apparently it's own legal thing now just makes me sad to live in this country.

Let's get one thing perfectly clear. Teenage boys and girls are often horny, and curious about the opposite sex. So he asked to see her naked, and she said no (good for her). It certainly wasn't the smartest decision on his part, but why couldn't her "no" have been the end of it? Is it because phones are involved? They're both minors, and not that far apart from each other in age...

What if the situation had been reversed? If she had asked to see him naked, what would've happened?

There are some serious cultural issues going on here, not least of which is the madonna/whore dichotomy. Charging him with "enticement, contributing to the delinquency of a minor, harassment" over one text message seems heavy-handed as hell. Sure, the DA threw it out, but those charges should never have been filed in the first place. And I do NOT think the same charges would have been applied if the situation was reversed.

For the record: I'm not saying she did anything wrong. In fact, I'm glad she felt comfortable enough with her parents to involve them in such a potentially embarrassing situation, but those parents over-reacted heavily when they involved the police. Why couldn't it have simply been a phone call to his parents?

[LisaL]

54. How is he going to end up on a sex offender registry?

The DA isn't going to prosecute him.

[darkstar3]

56. Yeah, I missed that part

I had JUST spotted that, and was about to edit my post, but you beat me. :)

Registry aside, the rest of my post still stands. I'm off to edit slightly now...

[Indenturedebtor]

134. Seriously. This whole thing is rediculous

Last year an 18 yr old girl at work was staring at my crotch while we were outside smoking. I asked her what she was looking at, she says "Oh sorry I was staring at your c-ck" and winked at me.

Should I have gotten her fired? Arrested? Wanting to have sex with someone and making a pass at them without any threat of violence or coercion is what allows us to breed. Should we just lop off our genitalia and clone ourselves for eternity? Sometimes this ish goes a little too far.

He said "wanna?", She said "POLITZIA!!!!! POLITZIA!!!!!!!" :eyes:

[seabeyond]

136. rIdiculous. quit spelling rediculous. one of FEW pet peeves, lol.

[Indenturedebtor]

140. Haha I get receive wrong all the time too... one of my quirks n/t

[seabeyond]

144. with you on the quirks. nt

[Gwendolyn]

55. The girl needed a counselor because some boy asked to see her naked pics?

Fuck. Wow. Screwed up girl.

[LisaL]

57. Oh for crying out loud.

At 14, a girl can be upset if someone looked at her funny.
In addition, different people might get upset over different things.

[LeftyMom]

64. Being upset because teenage boys are horny is like being upset because the sun rises.

And $10 says this girl is being sent to some fundie "Christian counselor" who is blowing the whole thing out of proportion for Jesus.

[darkstar3]

That's an offensive blanket statement.

"At 14, a girl can be upset if someone looked at her funny."

What about 14 year old boys? It's true that 14 is a rough age, but your statement seems to be that 14 year old girls specifically are constantly upset. I've known plenty of perfectly stable 14 year olds of both sexes.

[LisaL]

72. Hah?

I have said nothing to suggest that I think all 14 year old girls are constantly upset. Ridiculous assertion.

[darkstar3]

75. That quote I posted seems to disagree with you. n/t

[LisaL]

76. It sure as hell doesn't say what you suggest it does.

[darkstar3]

80. I can't see that it says anything else.

Why?

If, as you say, "At 14, a girl can be upset if someone looked at her funny," then logically it follows that 14 year old girls would be upset all the time. After all, how many funny looks do you throw at people in a day? I know I throw a few, and so does everyone else I know, and I collect a few too. Such is life.

[LisaL]

82. "A girl" (some girl) doesn't equal "all girls."

I seriously can't believe I have to explain that.

[darkstar3]

86. In the context of your post, I disagree.

"A girl" (some girl) doesn't equal "all girls." This CAN certainly be true.

But what you said was:
"At 14, a girl can be upset if someone looked at her funny." Prefaced by the topic of "Oh for crying out loud."

So your use of the words "A girl" is generic, not specific. Which makes your post sound to me like what you mean here is: Take any 14 year old girl as an example, and she can be upset if someone looks at her funny.

And I disagree. I think that statement is dismissive of the standard emotional state, well-being, and range of 14 year old girls everywhere. I also think you wouldn't have said it about a 14 year old boy, which is the real reason I pounced in the first place.

[LisaL]

90. I've already explained to you time and time again that you

took my post all wrong. It doesn't say what you insist it does.
By the way the sentence in my post "different people might get upset at different things" should have given you a clue, if use of "a girl" as opposed to "all girls" did not. And "oh for crying out loud" was said in response to a poster suggesting that 14 year old in the OP story was "screwed up" for being upset over being asked to send nude photos over the phone.

[Gwendolyn]

152. That's not why I said she was screwed up.

You have a 14-year-old who is friends with the purported school lothario who has asked girls for their naked pics before. So she already knows who is he, but it's okay with her as long as it happens to other girls. He treats her like "those" girls and this upsets her. Fine. Of course. Lesson one: Next time find better friends.

To my mind, both she and her Carrie mom are screwed up based on the enormous drama that unfolded afterward. Police and a counselor for dealing with regular teenage sexuality bullshit? Yeah, I would say that's screwed up. Now the world knows who Jade the virgin is, and what a fragile hothouse flower she be.

[LisaL]

155. You've made some conclusions, and based on what?

The article makes it clear she doesn't actually know that he did it to anyone else. She feels he might have done it to someone else because of how "bold he was with her."
And it is really amazing that you are actually suggesting that if a girl is friends with a boy, and that boy does something improper, it's all the girl's fault because she should have known better (just as long as she knew the boy was a "lothario").
There are a lot of things someone can justify that way.

[Gwendolyn]

160. Nope. That's twisting what I said.

One is 14 and the other is 16. What do you think goes on at that age. Aside from school work, chores and sports/interests, the rest of the time is CONSUMED with friends, boyfriends, girlfriends and what they're doing/feeling/eating/wearing every second of the day. On top of that zits and hormones are fairly oozing from their skin. People stop talking to friends because of the slightest faux pas, form cliques and coalitions that change weekly. And you think this situation stands out in any way from the myriad of earth shattering drama that unfolds daily at middle and high schools across the entire world? If they all made it into the news the way this one did, you'd need a crane just to get your paper into the house in the morning.

[LisaL]

162. I dunno.

The idea of your post seemed to be "she had it coming." No?

[Gwendolyn]

169. Not at all. And for the record, I KNOW that some boys are complete assh*les with the sexting thing.

Definitely the boy needed to have his ass verbally kicked.

That aside, having spent a lot of time with teens this year, it appears that they often conveniently forget key facts, or smoosh them according to how they want the story to go.

This girl either knew this boy had already done it before, which in teen translation is a definite possibility considering she brought it up, or wants to believe it in order to demonize him even more than her mother already did.

Either way, the mom, and the daughter have made her virginity into a commodity through this exercise, and I think that's screwed up. When the time comes for her to move to the next level of sexuality, she may be sorely disappointed.

[LisaL]

170. Why don't we let her and her parents

worry on whether she will be disappointed or not when the time comes for her to "move to the next level of sexuality."

[Gwendolyn]

176. Her parents have decided the whole world needs to know about this.

They have gone to the press to deplore the fact that the boy was not punished with jail time. I'd say they want everyone involved in their personal drama, and wouldn't mind at all if more stringent punishment was meted out to teenage boys based on their family morals. So, I guess it's okay if people then go ahead and give an opinion.

[LisaL]

177. I doubt they went to the press just so we can worry

of how she would feel when she is "ready to move to the next level."

[Gwendolyn]

181. Lol, you made a comment about my saying the girl is screwed up.

That's my opinion. Especially if she goes to school crying every day because she has to see some boy who asked her for naked pics. And her mother is pleased that a counselor is there to help her through this trying, earth-shattering time of turmoil. You think it's perfectly normal for a girl to be traumatized to that point. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

They went to the press to make a big deal about the girl's virginity, and to announce to the world that they wanted this boy flayed, basically. I'm not worried about her moving on to the next level, just thrilled that I am not her, and that my family had a lot more common sense throughout my teen years.

[LisaL]

186. Again you are coming up with things that aren't there.

She doesn't go to school every day crying. She feels like crying if she sees the boy.
And what's wrong with mother being pleased that a counselor is there to help her? Why do you think you know better what someone can and can not be upset about?

[Gwendolyn]

187. Call it an instinct.

I just have a feeling it's screwed up to be sooooo traumatized by a fumbling sexual overture imposed over a cell message by a 16-year-old, one evening while they were sitting around at their respective homes teehee texting each other. Based on that snippet of a study you posted regarding experiences and how they help us grow into adulthood, it would seem that I'm not far off.

Apparently, this mother is not equipped to talk to her daughter, so the counselor and police are there as a support system. Now that I think of it, I'm happy her whole community is involved in this situation. It's THAT big! Too bad the DA didn't fall into line.

[Dorian Gray]

117. 14 year old girls

often ARE upset all the time. It sucked to be 14.

[BlooInBloo]

119. I'm still trying to figure out what's so upsetting about saying it.

:rofl:

[darkstar3]

123. Because it is dismissive.

And I wouldn't call it upsetting as much as I would disheartening. It is disheartening to see sexism and ageism on a progressive board.

[seabeyond]

125. but teenage girls are emotional. hormones. so are the boys, they just show it different

and we pretend otherwise.

pull out any book on adolscence.

[darkstar3]

130. And that couldn't be rooted at all in how they are TREATED differently? n/t

[seabeyond]

132. i dont know what that has to do with anything.

as i said, both genders are emotional at this time in their lives. not a made up or stereotype caricature.

[darkstar3]

142. See, now you've changed what you're saying

In #125, you specifically stated that teenage boys and girls handle their emotions differently, and "we pretend otherwise." That's what I was responding to. I'm saying that the fact that teenage boys and girls are treated differently may be the whole cause of the emotional dichotomy you're attempting to present.

In other words, if we EXPECT teen girls to be emotional and we EXPECT teen boys to be stoic but crazy in the inside, we might just be creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[seabeyond]

149. i see. what i am saying is that both are emotional. and because of the boundaries we put on them

and because of a lifetime conditioning and because one is male and one is female and behavior is different (all being relevent) that boys being an emotional mess is overlooked or not mentioned or recognized, as girls are.

i was in middleschool pta talking about the tough time girls have at this time.

i said what about the tough time boys have

moms looked at me like i was mad. pissed me off. and wasnt too polite about it

[darkstar3]

153. So essentially, we're on the same page

at least with regard to teen girls vs. teen boys.

The internet is such a great tool for communication, but somehow the English language loses some of it's communicative power when used for debate in writing. The asynchronous method of communication, the lack of tone, the lack of facial expressions...it affects our ability to really "get the point across."

Anyway, glad to know we agree. :hi:

[seabeyond]

164. if we EXPECT ... arguing up thread. we expect nothing more of boys but rude and perverse

that is what we will get.

i am a believer our expectation will be met,.... regardless if good or bad, right or wrong.

[darkstar3]

165. Exactly. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

126. Uh... Have you ever seen a 14 year old? They're insane.

With a small number of exceptions (for the pedants among us).

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YersIyzsOpc

Prosecution rests.

[darkstar3]

139. Let me see if I can turn this around and make my point.

Have you ever seen an 80 year old? They're insane. They have these weird, crazy ass ideas about race, gender, sexual relations, and religion. And the funny thing about it is that they'll tell anyone what they think about these topics for no reason at all, even going so far as to yell about it. They're just crazy...

The above statement was brought to you by ageism, as was your assertion that 14 year olds are insane.

[BlooInBloo]

141. Golly - 2 year olds are short - I'M AGEIST!!!!

:rofl:

It's still not clear that you have actually ever seen a 14 year old.

[darkstar3]

145. Clever as you may feel right now,

you're not actually funny.

Is it impossible for you to see that when we make assumptions about people based on their age, we do them a disservice?

[BlooInBloo]

146. Indeed. I apologize to all the 2 year olds for assuming that they're short.

[LisaL]

148. Here. Read this.

"Adolescents are traditionally seen as extremely emotional and out of control. Dr. Larson's studies on adolescence confirm that teenagers experience wider emotional swings than adults. In addition, his findings show that they experience more frequent negative emotions than pre-adolescents. For Dr. Larson however, these findings do not mean rebellion, emotional turmoil, and radical personality change. Adolescents encounter new experiences on a daily basis. Such unfamiliar situations often result in new and possibly intense positive and negative emotional reactions. These emotions are often not yet integrated into their experience. As time goes by and teens develop further, they are more accustomed to such variety and their reactions are no longer novel and can become less extreme."
http://www.aboutourkids.org/articles/riding_roller_coaster_emotions_are_adolescents_moody_why_so_what

This is just from random googling. I am sure there are lots more of the similar sort of thing I could find.
Does it shock you to find out there have been studies done on this subject?

[darkstar3]

151. I've read some of those studies

so no, it doesn't shock me that they were done. The whole point I'm trying to make here is that we shouldn't be making assumptions about these teenagers when we deal with them day to day.

Here's a random example of what I mean: Walking into a conversation convinced that your teenage son or daughter is going to blow up at you because of what you're going to say is a great way to get exactly what you're looking for. Body language and tone say a lot about your intent, and when they pick up on the fact that you're AFRAID of what they're going to do or say, they become angry and you've just fulfilled your own prophecy.

In short, prepare for everything, assume nothing.

[LisaL]

157. And all your statements about "ageism" are what exactly?

[darkstar3]

158. Attempting to combat assumptions.

In this case, the assumption that the 14 year old girl referenced in the OP is an overly-emotional person.

[LisaL]

159. How on Earth does what I said implies

that the girl in the OP is overly-emotional, when I tried to say just the opposite?
And what assumptions are you combatting? Did you read the study?

[darkstar3]

167. Um, what?

You respond directly to my statement on what assumptions I am combating (and we argued all of that already upthread), and then you ask me exactly what those assumptions are?

Obviously you read my post, and understood what assumptions I was combating, why ask again?

[LisaL]

168. Do you feel the need to combat assumptions regardless of

whether these assumptions are wrong or right? You said you know of the studies, I presume you also think you understand the studies. So what it is you are combating exactly if you don't think the studies are wrong?

[darkstar3]

172. Again "Prepare for everything, assume nothing."

You are deliberately ignoring this statement from #151. I find it perfectly acceptable to use conclusions from a scientific study for information and preparation purposes, but when you assume that every teen will behave this way until they prove otherwise, you pigeonhole people and do them a disservice.

[LisaL]

175. I never assumed or stated that every teen behaved that way.

Which I have pointed out to you countless times already.

[darkstar3]

179. True

Your statement at the start of our subthread was specifically about teen girls. And we've discussed that.

[LisaL]

184. Because we are talking about how a 14 year old girl might

react to things. WTF am I supposed to talk about?

[darkstar3]

189. The teen girl in question.

Rather than making a generic statement that could have been applied to any 14 year old girl, you could have easily confined yourself to speaking about the single teen girl from the OP.

If I sound as if I'm attempting to shut you up or stifle debate, I assure you that is not my intent. I only wish to see the debate take place without the use of broad brushes directed at groups such as females and teenagers.

[LisaL]

191. Ha?

You wish to debate under certain rules? Do you think your wish is my command? What on Earth makes you think I should only be allowed to debate the way you would like to debate? Stop the DU, I better get off.
:eyes:

[darkstar3]

195. Did I say that?

I don't want to institute any new "rules" that have to be followed or any such bullshit. Even if those rules WOULD make it easier for people to stay on topic in a single thread.

You just go right on ahead and reserve the right to say whatever you want. And I'LL reserve the right to call you out on your bullshit.

What you said was sexist and offensive, and I called you on it. Don't get up on your huffy bike and try and tell me that I'm a prick for trying to institute some nebulous rule system just because you got caught. If I wanted to institute or adhere to such "rules," I would have simply alerted on your ass and been done with it, but I had hoped we'd be able to have a simple, educational discussion about sexism.

I should have known I was wading into a minefield...a fellow DU'er told me once that trying to debate sexism in GD was like trying to shout over a jet engine...I should have listened.

[LisaL]

198. Do alert on my statement, pretty please. Let's see if DU

moderator thinks that what I said was sexist and offensive. You went on and on about a harmless statement, that was neither sexist, offensive, nor general (and by the way I have yet to see a DU rule saying one can not make general statements). The statement also never claimed what you suggest it did. But please alert on it because I am done arguing with you.
:banghead:

[Chemisse]

99. While you can't make blanket statements that fit everybody

You can make some that fit most, most of the time.

Teen girls tend to get emotionally upset easily and be driven from one drama to the next. This applies to some more than others, and tends not to apply to boys. As always, exceptions exist.

[darkstar3]

128. "You can make some that fit most, most of the time."

Those are called stereotypes.

"Teen girls tend to get emotionally upset easily and be driven from one drama to the next. This applies to some more than others, and tends not to apply to boys. As always, exceptions exist."

I will forgo the questions on your expertise in the subjects of mental health and behavior, and ask something a bit more philosophical: What happens when we all incorporate "rules" or "common knowledge" like this into our lives?

I think it makes the world a shittier place to live in, and I think it marginalizes the existence of many groups, in this case teen girls. I think this type of "common knowledge" is the root of all -isms, in this case sexism.

[seabeyond]

133. i can agree with the ism part. i see both genders emotional rollercoaster

at this tiem in life and we dont give it to males cause doesnt show up the same way as girls.

[Chemisse]

210. You simply cannot deny there are gender differences

We have physical differences. Some of these differences translate into behavioral and social differences. It is not sexism to notice them.

It is okay to acknowledge gender differences as long as we also recognize that individuals may not all show these differences.

I am not an expert on mental health and behavior. What I am is a high school teacher and I work with teenagers every day. It's impossible not to notice different behaviors among the genders.

It's silly to deny them in fear of being labeled sexist (and I am female by the way).

[Odin2005]

161. Teen boys get emotionally upset, they are just discouraged from showing it.

I know when I was 14yo boy I was an emotional wreck half the time! I was called "Freak-out boy" :rofl:

[Chemisse]

211. Yeah you are right

But I suspect - until that boy was arrested - he was not as upset about being told 'no' to the nude pictures as she was upon being asked.

[Chemisse]

96. That is true, but adults indulge some teen upsets over others

Instead of being dealt with matter of factly:

('you did the right thing to tell us, we will let the principal know and the boy will be disciplined for harassing you')

I suspect:
('oh you poor thing!! You must be SOOOO upset!! we need to get you to church and have those impure thoughts banished from your head. And that evil boy will be punished by the police.')

[LeftyMom]

59. Seriously. If I had needed counseling every time a horny teenage boy came onto me as a teenager,

I'd have never done anything else.

[LisaL]

62. I hope you realize that children develop at different rates.

What was perfectly acceptable and not upsetting to you might not be so to everyone else.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

65. and super religious parents don't help matters much

[LeftyMom]

68. At fourteen I was a terrific prude.

If this girl is more easily offended than I was then getting hit on by teenage boys is the least of her problems. :rofl:

[LisaL]

171. So you think that a 14 year old girl being requested nude

photos of herself doesn't have a right to be upset? What exactly is your idea of a prude?

[Gwendolyn]

66. Exactly. The things said in person were much worse and more harassing than...

what appears to have been a phone text while she was safe and snug at home. Throw in the comments and come-ons from the average older guy or perv hurled at us on the streets, and I think we'd all have been institutionalized by those standards. :D

[LeftyMom]

70. When I was seventeen I got asked out by the youth pastor of the local Baptist church.

:rofl:

I was at work, so he might have thought I was a tad bit over the age of majority, but I honestly didn't look it.

Needless to say when he came around to my door a few years later inviting the neighborhood kids to Vacation Bible School I gave his creepy ass a piece of my mind.

[Gwendolyn]

87. Lol, I have a few of those stories as well.

:D

I do know that at the age of 14, it would have been the height of embarrassment if my parents made a big deal about a class mate's slobbering sexual advance by going to the police, and I sure as hell would NEVER have wanted to talk about my sexuality with some greasy haired counselor at school.

[KittyWampus]

77. please, tell us all how you were a perfectly adjusted teen and never over-reacted to anything.

[LeftyMom]

78. God no. I was a spectacular prude and overreacted to damn near everything.

I STILL didn't need frikkin' therapy every time some teenage boy wanted a peek at my tits.

[Kaleva]

67. The article doesn't say the girl needed a counselor or that her or her family asked for one

The article does say the school immediately made one available for the girl.

[chrisa]

182. I don't blame her.

It's bullying.

[liquid diamond]

200. Why treat her like she's done something wrong? She's the victim.

[Gwendolyn]

207. She wasn't a victim when it started.

She said NO to the pics thing, as was the right thing to do. Now she's got her name plastered in the news, thanks to her mom, and she's been taught the lesson that sexuality is criminal. NOW she's a victim.

[liquid diamond]

208. Oh please. Some teenagers choose not to have sex. I don't

understand why people here get bent out of shape just because a teenager isn't fucking. There's nothing wrong with a parent telling their kid not to have sex.

[Gwendolyn]

209. Who said there was?

And who said teens need to have sex? I sure didn't.

I just don't think it's necessary to put 16-year-old boys in prison and subject them to a life labeled as a sex offender over a text message. I also don't think girls need to be trained to completely fall apart every time someone comes on to them either.

[liquid diamond]

231. I'm referring to the hateful and very angry responses here

whenever the subject of these "purity vows" comes up. I wonder if the hatemongers are feeling guilty about their sexual acts they committed as teenagers. My point is to each their own. Some choose not to have sex, some do. Live your own life and mind your own fucking business. That's not directed at you necessarily but to those that hypocritically judge these girls that choose not to have sex.

And as for your last line...it's not like this guy asked her out on a date. He wanted to see her naked.

[Gwendolyn]

239. I'm not seeing hateful or angry responses.

Lots of people find purity balls/vows creepy in that purity is personal and private and doesn't need shouting at the world. Historically, people have celebrated Spring Rites and Coming Out balls to signal a child's readiness to go out into the world, not the opposite.

Yes, the boy sent the girl a written request over a cell phone to see her naked pics. And you agree with the girl's mother that this request was emotionally debilitating and deserves a prison sentence?

[BuelahWitch]

242. +1

:applause:

[TexasObserver]

79. The real damage is being done by her parents and "support" system.

Chastity at her age is a wise choice, but understanding the choice as a thoughtful one, not a religious one, is most important.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

81. I'm amazed at some of the replies in this thread

Hung up about the girl's religion, as if that somehow negates the fact she was sexually harassed.

Sure, chastity vows come off as creepy to me at that age, but does it even matter?

If her mother stated she was a feminist and cited Anita Hill, would that be more acceptable righteous indignation?

[Gwendolyn]

84. No, not really.

The mother comes off like a "Carrie" mom. The right way to take of it would have been for the girl's mother/father to call the boy's parents and give them huge hell for their sexed up, errant child. If, as the girl says, the boy has done this before, you have to wonder why she considered him a friend in the first place, but in any event, alerting the school would have been wise in this case. Calling the police and yammering to the press about how her daughter has been mortally psychologically wounded is beyond the pale.

And people wonder why there is cop presence in schools. Parents can't take care of their own children anymore. It requires state intervention for every little thing, including I guess, horny teenage boy come-ons.

[Chemisse]

104. Well said - nt

[Kaleva]

85. The chasity vow and the girl's religion are not relevent

[Chemisse]

105. You are right

But that hit me as well while reading along. It's easy to see how that can snag people's attention.

[Odin2005]

163. They are relevant with regards to the parents overreacting over this.

Telling the boy to fuck off is enough.

[seabeyond]

89. i agree. it is sidebar that became the issue for some. nt

[anigbrowl]

95. Nope, that wouldn't be acceptable to me either

I firmly believe that 'no means no', but that doesn't mean it's wrong to ask the question, as long as you're willing to accept the answer. To my mind it would only be harassment if the guy wouldn't leave her alone or went on to make fun of her refusal.

[LisaL]

97. Let's say you are an adult female and your co-worker

send you this sort of message. Do you think it was not wrong for him to ask that question? And you shouldn't complain over it?

[Chemisse]

107. It was wrong, and worthy of complaint

But not worthy of arrest and labeling as a sex offender, as a conviction would have done.

[anigbrowl]

111. It depends, on a variety of things

...as I'm sure you know. Different levels of seniority are a factor, so is repeat behavior, so is the company's policy and so on. Context matters, and shifting the case to a different (and loosely specified) context turns it into a different question. As the story is reported, it looks to me like the boy's request was inappropriate - which to me is a different thing from harassment.

My view on that might change too, if (for example) the conversation leading up to this request consisted of exchanged like 'u r so hot' 'I think r hot too xxx'. All I can tell from the article is that they were friends up to that point, though obviously they had a different idea of what that implied. I very much doubt we're getting the whole story in this report, and I'm not willing to just pass judgments without that information.

[madeline_con]

224. The girls I konw would text, "yeh, U wish!" and that would be the end of it.

Unless they wanted to comply, of course, which many might.

[Kaleva]

100. The boy got an answer. Not the one he wanted I imagine.

[TorchTheWitch]

154. I'm more amazed that sexual harrassment of this sort is considered PC

At any age to be asked to supply nude photos of yourself is fucking offensive. Teenage girls should in no way be taught to think that this is normal and there's something wrong with them to get upset about it. No damn wonder so many teenage girls and women are made to feel like nothing more than a piece of meat for anyone's sexual enjoyment.

[seabeyond]

156. yes. nt

[WonderGrunion]

196. It's not that sexual harassment is considered PC

The bulk of the responses is backlash against the over response to the sexual harassment. It's Ok to get upset at the sexual harassment. But understand that their is also a proportionality of the response that is equally as offensive. Unless you happen to agree with the girls mother that this 16 year old should serve jail time and be listed permanently as a sex offender because he was boorish on the phone.

[proteus_lives]

194. I am too.

I don't think much of purity vows either but I'm not make fun or mock the girl and her mother because of it.

[theHandpuppet]

225. I'm with you.

But the unapologetic misogyny and homophobia that rears its ugly head during threads such as these doesn't surprise me any more.

[ohheckyeah]

93. Oh good grief.

Why didn't they call the boy's parents?

[LisaL]

98. Who says they didn't?

[ohheckyeah]

108. It didn't say they did, either.

Why involve the police?

[Chemisse]

110. The story almost inevitably would have turned out differently

If the boys parents had been called. Apologies and reprimands, no police, no media.

[seabeyond]

102. on the other hand, another thread, problems in middle school with sex game

they send out emails to parents to inform and

du jumps on school and parents ass

seems like a continual promotion as anything goes with our teens without any sense of parenting or responsibility on the teens part.

[ohheckyeah]

109. I didn't say their should be no responsibility.

but the police? That's over kill.

[seabeyond]

112. i understand you point. saying, go to the parent, then people outraged parents got involved

after all they are teens, and teens horny, so wtf, aprents have no role in it.

but yes

i know you didnt say

your position is totally reasonable.

[Kaleva]

113. Should have called the boy's parents first I agree

If they would have just laughed it off, then take it to the next level.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

118. Goodness!

Did the mom really have to call the police? I mean it is not like the kid was a total stranger. They apparently knew each other if he had her phone number. Why didn't mom just call his parents and deal with it like that? I am glad I am no longer a teenager. from the time I was 14-17 I was trying to get laid by by as many of my classmates as I could. Sometimes I even got lucky! Sometimes their brothers beat my ass (or tried). No times did I have to deal with the police.

Seems like kids just can't be kids anymore.

And what is the deal with her taking a vow of purity? Was she un-pure before that?

[madeline_con]

173. She needs a counselor for one rude request?

I guess I should still be wallowing in fear and disgust over some comments made to me 20 to 30 years ago. Oh, the horror!

[LisaL]

178. I imagine those are the sorts of thing school counselors are needed for.

Not everybody thinks "sexting" or requests for nude photos should just be accepted as a part of normal life, no questions asked.

[madeline_con]

180. Maybe not accepted, but gotten over, for crying out loud. n/t

[LisaL]

183. School counselors are supposed to help students to get over

things, no? What important issues do you think should be covered by a school counselor as opposed to this? What kind of pressing things should the counselor concentrate on? You don't think "sexting" in school is an issue? Do you think schools want that sort of thing to go on?

[madeline_con]

223. She shouldn't need any couseling for one crude request, that

didn't result in any nude photos being sent. Her parents overreacted, and so did she if she thinks she needs to waste the counselors' time with this, when they could be helping kids with real problems.

[Posteritatis]

192. Shelter someone enough and they'll break at the slightest thing

There was a kid in my town a couple of years ago - some classmates tricked him into viewing the front page of a gay porn site on a school computer. He was apparently genuinely traumatized by it - couldn't function for days afterwards, needed substantial psych help, etc.

When a high schooler gets to that point, the only person I can really put any blame on is the parents. (Of course, their reaction to this was to try to start a campaign to ban computers from all schools in the province.)

[Odin2005]

221. It's probably because her parents messed her up with anti-sex religious crap.

She is "traumatized" because that evil, satanic boy put impure thoughts in her head. :eyes:

[Initech]

190. I'm really thankful that Youtube and text messaging didn't exist when I was in high school.

Seriously I do thank the highest of high gods for that.

[seabeyond]

216. i do to. i see such negative results for this generation and so many parents blithely ignore

my kids still dont have ready access to you tube and i wont buy them (or let them buy) a cell phone with all the crap. they need one, i give them mine.

and still they are educated, in the know and not continually bombarded by a bunch of anonymous people that cannot be "read" over net. no looking in the eye, hearing the tone, reading body language, leaving kids disadvantaged along with the disadvantage of inexperience.

[seabeyond]

220. too. past edit time. hate this mistake. nt

[Initech]

222. I graduated in 1998. One year before Columbine and the start of the school gestapo.

Seriously I'm glad I got out when I did. When I read about the shit that kids have to put with now I really wonder how a lot of them survive on a daily basis.

[seabeyond]

232. between the not taking a step out of line, and the free for all, all is cool

it really misses the kids up.

they treat them like children on the one hand, not teaching responsibility and allow them the adult world on the other hand. they are ill equipped to handle because they have not been given responsibility to be able to live the adult world as teenagers

it is a totally fucked up topsy turvey way people are raising their kids today

[Toasterlad]

241. I Believe This New Technology May Save Us Yet.

By demystifying sex at an earlier age for kids, we stand a chance of eventually raising a generation that doesn't react to something like this as a third-grader would if he overhead someone say "pee-pee"
on the schoolyard.

One of the most horrendously oppressive things about this country is our collective hysteria about sex. If we as a society would grow up and treat sex as the natural healthy activity that it actually is, it would be far easier to teach our children about the appropriate safeguards and preventive behavior that will allow them to engage in sex responsibly. Less unwanted pregnancy! Less STDs! Less date rape! This would be a reality if we would stop teaching our children that sex is a dirty, shameful, immoral activity that must be blindly engaged in because the facts are too awkward or embarrassing to share.

[seabeyond]

243. a freshman girl asked to be moved in her class, sittin around boys that spew vile and crude

comments. so much so she had to move.

my son told me this morning. he had to switch seats with her. i asked him if they were spewing out this shit and he said yes. no questions. not that he wants to sit around it, not that it isnt disruptive for him, but better him than the girl having to endure this shit.

to bad she just cannot be more comfortable with her sexuality and less opressed that she dare be bothered by a handful of assholes crude and offensive comments to the extent she has to leave

at what point do these people have a responsibility not to inflict their vile crudity on the rest of us. or does that make it our sexual issue.

bully for you that you see these boys asking every girl for a naked picture so they can feel so sexually empowered. and using these pictures to humialiate the female with all their buddies. holding them up as trophies to what sexual prowless they have.

how dare the girl not feel sexually empowered by this technology and abuse of it

[Toasterlad]

251. NOTHING HAPPENED TO THE GIRL

She was not humiliated. She was not harrassed. She was not assaulted. She was asked to do something, and she refused. There is nothing in the story that indicates that the boy continued to harrass the girl after she said no. She's an ignorant, backwards, immature brat.

As for the boys saying those crude things in class, did the girl go to the teacher about it? Sounds like they were disrupting class time. But how nice that your son has inherited your anachronistic anti-feminist-disguised-as-chivalry beliefs. "Better him than the girl", because the girl is too fragile and virtuous to be subjected to such crassness, right?

As I plainly explained above, if we didn't treat sex as a dirty shameful act in this country, perhaps teenage boys wouldn't feel as much of a need to make crude references to it.

And yes, it IS too bad that the girl can't feel more comfortable with her sexuality and less oppressed. It is a downright shame.

[seabeyond]

253. this is your problem. my post wasnt about op, it was about your post, firstly

secondly, ..... for a girl to listen to crude filthy comments about female and their body is going to be effected and bothered more than my son. as much as he may not like it, nor respect those assholes, it does not effect him the same as it does the girl

you dismiss the girl, and justify the boys behavior.

civility. manner. respect.

has nothing to do with shameful act of sex.

[Toasterlad]

258. The Boys Behavior Was NOT Justified.

As I said, they were disrupting class time, and the teacher should have put a stop to it. I'm also not on board with teenage boys subjecting anyone - male or female - to crude sexual innuendoes. However, my objection won't stop teenage boys from doing so, because that's what teenage boys do. Therefore, it behooves parents - especially the parents of teenage girls - to teach their children how to handle such things in a calm and mature fashion. Reacting in an hysterical manner will only fuel the comments.

And my point still stands: if we did not mystify and debase sex as a society, it would not be as useful a tool in a teenage boys vulgarity toolbox.

[seabeyond]

260. because that's what teenage boys do... cant teach teenage boys. so teach

teenage girls to not be offended. teach the girls to be mature, cause cant teach boys to be mature.

are you fuckin serious.

[redqueen]

261. lol

[seabeyond]

263. whatcha you laughing at......

wink

[Toasterlad]

265. Like All People, Teenage Boys Are Individuals.

Some are brought up right, and some are not. Some mature faster than others. However, it's unlikely that any child - male or female - is going to get through school without being subjected to some crude sexual imagery.

I can only conclude that you're being willfully obtuse, since this is all blatantly obvious to anyone who's every been a teenager. And since you're being willfully obtuse, I'm not interested in having a discussion with you. I'll just silently continue to wish that you didn't have children that you're not preparing to handle sex in a healthy manner.

[seabeyond]

267. Some are brought up right, and some are not..... first smart thing you said

now you want to run away as you say i should not be a parent, though you are clueless what is taught in this house, which brings your post to .... not very smart.

"just what boys do" is a lot different than brought up right or not.

you stated that is what a boys is

not what lack of parenting, teaching, conversing, educating, interacting, connecting, example.... result in.

[redqueen]

254. So... saying vile crude things is somehow a need?

Something boys need to do?

Really?

[seabeyond]

256. boys need to be nasty, vulgar, crude, filthy and girls need to embrace and enjoy

and what

fuckin feel flattered

what a fuckin ass.

goes along with the poster that said

12 yr old stripper, cool. once hit puberty she is free game.

[seabeyond]

255. so if a girl is offended by the vile, crude, vulgar things male says to her it is her own shame

of self and her sexuality. it is her fault that she dares to be offended regardless of what a male says to her.

it is her shame that she is not what.... complimented by nasty remarks made to her

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

271. Pretty much.

She's choosing to be offened. Much like you.

[seabeyond]

273. the patriarchal bullshit. submit to the control and abuse. what some males want to teach girls and

why they do it.

no

i would not teach girls to become submissive to male abuse and control. but good to see clearly your position on how you feel females should docilely accept male dominance.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

276. Nobody said anything about control, abuse, or submission.

The only abuse here is the ridiculous treatment of the boy.

[seabeyond]

277. but that is what this behavior is. whether said out loud or not. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

278. Nope.

Here, watch:

Post naked pictures of yourself.

[seabeyond]

279. we were talking about something else. nt

[Blue-Jay]

197. Wow! I don't care!

[timtom]

212. What about a simple "No?"

Then, if he were persistent or bullying, involve the authorities.

"We were on a date, and he tried to KISS me and he put his hand THERE!
Oh, and then I said 'no' and he gave it up and we've been friends ever since."

I weep for America. I mourn for America.

[arcadian]

219. Who gives a fucking shit?

Is this all we have to worry about is stupid inane crap like this? Society of the Spectacle indeed.

[redqueen]

234. Butbutbut... it's got the word "sex" in it.

:rofl:

Idiocracy, here we come!

[Toasterlad]

226. “My parents raised me well,”

Your parents clearly did not raise you well. They clearly raised you to attach undue importance and outdated false propriety to a biological function as instinctive and unremarkable as eating or sleeping. They raised you in such a way that your immature and ignorant views on sex and the human body are sure to be passed on to your ignorant and immature future children, thus perpetuating this maddening and ludicrous - and uniquely American - view of sex as filthy and degrading. Hooray for your terrible, terrible parents.

In a right-thinking country, this boy should be able to sue for false arrest, and sue you and your family for slander. He should be making money off your ignorance.

[w4rma]

233. She and her family went extremely overboard over some words.

Words that were a request, not even a demand. All she had to do was say, 'No.' and that would be the end of it. Instead her family tried to ruin the kid's life.

[BoneDaddy]

244. A consequence is in order but let's not brand the boy

and act as if this is worthy of a public execution like the parents and some people are responding to this. This is what teenagers do. It is called sexual curiosity.

[redqueen]

257. It sounds like her parents have her freaked out about sex.

And their reaction (calling the police, not the boy's parents) seems to indicate that they're not that well-adjusted about sexuality themselves.

Sad, but that's what we get for tolerating so much religious dumbassery about sex.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

262. I think people who are upset by this boy...

should post naked pictures of themselves or GTFO.

[redqueen]

264. *roffle*