Time to declare victory. With or without the public option...

[LuckyTheDog]

... Obama is poised to make more progress on health care reform than all other presidents since WWII combined. Whatever passes initially will be a victory for our side. And whatever passed initially will not be the last health care bill ever passed. The struggle will go on. The focus will shift to one of two things: 1) improving the public option or 2) moving into high gear on a "Medicare for all" agenda if the public option plan fails to get into the bill.

But this is important part: We have to declare victory.

Yes, we should express disappointment if the Congress is less than bold. We should make it clear that the fight will continue. However, we should not lose sight of the fact that this health care debate has been going on since the 40s without anywhere near the progress we are about to see. What we are about to get will, indeed, represent a leap forward -- even if it still leaves us well behind the rest of the developed world. We should make sure everyone knows and appreciates that fact.

Why declare victory? It's about tactics. If the media and the right are able to spin the passage of a health care bill as a "defeat" for the Dems or a "victory" for the Republicans, then we might not get another bite at the apple for a long time. That's because any whiff of capitulation or hand-wringing on our part will be exploited in the 2010 and 2012 elections. And the swing voters will favor the GOP based on their perception that the Democrats are "weak" and/or "can't get stuff done."

Bill Maher said it (I paraphrase): Many Americans don't care about the issues at all. They just don't want to vote for pussies. They like winners. They like strength.

The other side knows this. They are masters of polishing up any turd-like half victory on an issue and declaring it to be humiliating defeat for the other side -- evidence that America has "repudiated" progressive ideals.

Let's not fall into a trap here. We are about to win something big. We should spend at least a week crowing about it. After that, we can use our victory as a platform from which we reach for the next level.

[Umbral]

1. Like that wasn't the plan from day one.

Any bill that make it out of congress is going to be portrayed as a "Victory", regardless of its content.

[LuckyTheDog]

4. But... it WILL be a victory

If all the bill does is give people protection from being dropped when they get sick or denied coverage based on preexisting conditions, then it WILL be a leap forward. And it WILL be a defeat for the Republican "let 'em die if they don't have coverage" agenda.

It'll also be useful in demonstrating what the Republicans have become. Even the weakest bill is unlikely to get more than a few GOP votes. The Republicans will go into 2010 as the party in favor of denying coverage to sick Aunt Mille. Not a good place to be.

[Umbral]

12. I think it will be more useful in demonstrating what the Democrats have become.

Whatever ends up in the bill, it will represent the best the Democrats could do, even with unprecedented(*) Congressional majorities and overwhelming public support. Think about that, let it sink in, this is the BEST they could manage.



*in my lifetime at least.

[LuckyTheDog]

13. It will be the best they can manage in 2009

Again, the fight will go on. And if we can win bigger in 2010, the fight will be joined.

[DrDan]

22. win bigger??????? you got to be kidding.

[LuckyTheDog]

24. So you think...

... that Dems won't be able to win additional seats in 2010?

[DrDan]

27. I certainly don't . . .

[WillieW]

31. That's what I am talking bout.

[Donnachaidh]

2. no public option is a victory for the insurance companies -- not us.

Declare victory for that? I.Think.Not. :puke:

It would be more corporate welfare -- and the chains would be tightened on the middle class and the poor.

[LuckyTheDog]

5. I disagree

If all the bill does is give people protection from being dropped when they get sick or denied coverage based on preexisting conditions, then it WILL be a leap forward. It will help a lot of people. And the GOP will be on record as having tried to stop it.

Again... this is not the end of the game. It is Round One.

[Donnachaidh]

20. mandated health insurance through private companies is NOT a victory.

Being the mother of an *insurance leper*, I know what is in store for those with pre-existing conditions who have had NO luck in purchasing insurance. They will have 2 options - extremely high insurance rates from teh companies - or a fine from the federal government.

That is certainly NO win. It's economic slavery - and corporate welfare all rolled up into a neat and tidy bundle. That is NOT the change I voted for.

It's a great big leap BACKWARD to slavery in it's ugliest form.

[DrDan]

23. round 1? I don't think so

[LuckyTheDog]

25. OK, be defeatist (nt)

[DrDan]

28. just pointing out that other administrations have had health reform on their agenda

wouldn't that make it further down the road than round 1?

And I believe, it was done with control of congress - not a veto-proof majority, but control.

Now - veto-proof and we seem stalled.

[debbierlus]

3. Ewwwwwwwww. Declare victory for a corporate insurance wetdream bill

Who cares about the actual legislation?

I don't know when DU became the advocate board for Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Aetna, and Bristol Myers. If they read these boards, they surely must be laughing at how easy it has been.

Just need a good salesman.

Wow. What has this place become?

[LuckyTheDog]

6. I don't see it that way

If, at the end of the day, many more people will be covered and insurance companies face serious regulation, then we will have made a breakthrough. We should not be satisfied with what we get. Even the strongest bill likely to pass will not be enough. But you do not reach the mountaintop if you never leave your base camp.

[dana_b]

10. I don't know

I read this stuff and think I must be losing my mind. "It's about tactics". huh?! I thought it was about getting GOOD health care reform that doesn't cause more debt, worry and covers everyone. Silly me.

Although I also disagreed with the President last Wednesday when he addressed the progressives.

"To my progressive friends, I would remind you that for decades, the driving idea behind reform has been to end insurance company abuses and make coverage affordable for those without it. The public option is only a means to that end – and we should remain open to other ideas that accomplish our ultimate goal. "

Mr. President, maybe that is what you and other politicians thought the driving idea was. Most progressives thought it was universal, single payer health care. We aren't driving on the same track.

[LuckyTheDog]

11. Look at the real-world impact

My aunt cannot get health insurance for the simple reason that she took an antidepressant for a couple months after her husband died suddenly.

If she gets coverage under the bill that gets passed, then that will make a real difference in her life -- and the lives of others like her. It would be more than any president has accomplished since this issue was first brought up in the 40s.

That would be progress. It would not be nearly enough to make me say "OK, we're done now." But it would be progress.

[dana_b]

14. that is the ONLY hope that I have for this bill

that people like your aunt would get covered - and I hope she does. I just have lost hope in the rest of it. I don't think the Dems have the spines to fight for more than what is being proposed - it's not profitable enough for them.

[LuckyTheDog]

18. The Dems ARE spineless losers

But they are OUR spineless losers. Unfortunately, our choice is them, or a replay of the Gingrich years after 2010.

[Dr.Phool]

19. You're half right.

They're spineless for sure. Leaders, not so much, except for the progressive caucus.

[debbierlus]

33. Given that 80% of the public wants a public option, it was disingenious to address that comment

To progressives....

I am SICK of being marginalized. The MAJORITY of Americans want the same damn thing progressives do, they just don't want to be labeled as 'liberal' or 'progressive' as the terms have been slandered to mean radical freak.

Obama marginalized us with that comment, as well.

[anonymous171]

7. Correct. We need to start playing the game. nt

[LuckyTheDog]

8. Yep. If we want to win in 2010 and 2012...

... then health care reform cannot be allowed to be spun as "Obama's Waterloo."

Would you rather have a Democratic Congress or a Republican Congress in 2011? In 2013, do you want another Obama term, or a first term for Mitt Romney?

[DrDan]

9. of course victory will be declared

both houses of congress and the white house . . . . and we act like victors . . . . what a joke

[WillieW]

30. funny

[Dr.Phool]

15. LOL

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Stop it! You're killing me!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

If this is a victory, with the majorities we have, we deserve to lose, and BIG. We need Democrats with the courage of their convictions. Not corporate whores.

Take off the rose colored glasses, and put that Kool-ade away.

[Better Believe It]

16. Yippee! We won! Now we can give more of our money to the insurance industry and big Pharma!

OK.

"We are about to win something big. We should spend at least a week crowing about it. After that, we can use our victory as a platform from which we reach for the next level."

And the next level is .... we can "fix" social security and medicare by cutting benefits!

Now you said you wanted us to join you in eating crow?

[ixion]

17. a victory for the insurance companies,

futher heartache for the rest of us.

[LuckyTheDog]

26. Here is what I don't get

How can no progress be better than some progress? Seriously.

If more people can get insurance... If people are less likely to be dropped for screwy reasons... If the reforms take us one step closer to even more reforms down the road... How can that be worse than doing nothing?

The issue here is not how the post-bill world compares to the ideal situation. The comparison has to be: Will the bill help people in the real world and, therefore, represent progress compared to where we are now. I think there is no doubt that the bill WILL improve things.

[Deja Q]

21. How about a victor/victoria instead?

:shrug:

If there's a victory, people will really know it to be true.

[MadHound]

29. How would a plan that mandates insurance, without a public option, be a victory?

It would mean that Obama just handed over a mandated monopoly to the private insurance industry. It means that millions will continue to die due to lack of insurance. It means that the Dems are simply playing politics as usual and don't give a damn about the ordinary person, but rather or not they score some mythological "victory" they can chalk up for their side.

This isn't victory, this will be an abomination, and quite frankly, if this is the sort of "victory" that the Dems are willing to settle for, then I'm outta here. Many more "victories" like this will defeat us all.

[mmonk]

32. I belong to the reality based population.

I define victory on the basis on real effects of policy, not the passage of a bill by Democrats regardless of whether the bill is good or bad.