$194 speeding ticket has cost Petaluma $15,000, and counting

[Christa]

A dispute over a 2007 traffic ticket that has cost Petaluma police more than $15,000 to defend is now in the hands of a court commissioner, whose ruling could set a precedent for using GPS data to challenge police radar.

The case, which has drawn national attention, stems from a speeding ticket Windsor’s Shaun Malone, then 17, received on Lakeville Highway after a Petaluma police officer using radar said he clocked the teen’s 2000 Toyota Celica GTS going 62 mph in a 45-mph zone.

Malone’s family contends a GPS system they installed in his car to monitor his driving proves he was driving 45 mph at virtually the same time and place Officer Steve Johnson said Malone was speeding.

Malone was found guilty and fined $194. His appeal of that decision has involved several court hearings, the testimony of an expert in satellite technology and re-creations of the events of the morning in question.

It’s also meant a significant cost to police, who spent $15,000 alone for the expert’s three court appearances — one that had to be postponed when Andrew Martinez, the attorney retained by Malone’s family, asked for a continuance.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20090907/ARTICLES/909079980/1334/NEWS

[Chulanowa]

1. That the cops are fighting this so hard over such a trivial fine shows a LOT

Quota to meet? Radar cheat!

[WestSeattle2]

5. Speaks volumes really. The cops have been exposed

yet again for scamming the public. Hope this family prevails over what appears to be another corrupt jurisdiction. Expect more scams like this as the economy tightens and police departments get desperate for cash.

[Rebubula]

15. Appeals

The cops have absolutely ZIP to do with this case at this point. The State has the OBLIGATION to hear all appeals from any court case.

The person that is contesting the ticket is the one that is causing all of this....sort of. They may be in the right, but it is their actions that keep this case alive.

[Hutzpa]

18. Are you suggesting

they should just fold and die?

[Rebubula]

20. Who?

The Family or the State?

Actually - I was not taking sides in the case at all as I do not have all the facts. I was simply pointing out the fact that the police have nothing to do with this case being drawn out so long.

Now...if we want to pile on Lawyers - we could have a party

[Hutzpa]

25. You came across

as if the family should not be pursuing this case any further, hence my
question.

[Rebubula]

29. I cannot...

...be responsible for your inference, but I understand the question.

[Hutzpa]

42. Well don't insinuate

and I will not be nefarious.

[elias7]

45. Sorry, I picked up no insinuation

Just not willing to render a judgment yet. A fair stance if you think about the dynamics of all this. Consider...the kid might well have been speeding (on the way to the Raceway).

See my post #14

[TransitJohn]

26. Well obviously we need to "reform" the criminal courts just like

we need to "reform" tort law, to keep people from "abusing the system." :sarcasm: :banghead:

[Taverner]

19. My dad was a cop: cops are some of the most stubborn people on the planet

What they say is ALWAYS right

Even if it isnt

[CoffeeCat]

27. Cops are used to wielding power at work..

...and some of them have a difficult time turning it off at home.

My father was the same way--Mr. CEO. He treated us like employees.

I can't even imagine what some of the worst cops are like at home, behind
closed doors.

[PM Martin]

30. wife beaters most likely

[CoffeeCat]

31. and don't forget child abuse...

I'm sure the children suffer just as much, if not more.

[PM Martin]

36. true.

[Liberal_in_LA]

34. A cop and wife called in 'Supernanny' to help with their bad-ass kids. 'Supernanny' had to go

nose to nose with the guy. I though he was gonna go off on her.. The episode aired a few years ago. By the end of the ep.
the cop was on Supernanny's side, glad she'd helped the family. But you could see what a **** he was to deal with.

[Stevenmarc]

22. What it shows is that they dont want GPS data used to dispute speeding tickets

It really has nothing to do with this particular fine but they could lose a lot more than $15,000 if a precedence is set that gives people one more way to fight a ticket in the future.

[Robb]

2. Really interesting case, thanks for posting this.

I can imagine police departments' concern about the accuracy of radar being brought into question.

I also doubt very much parents who have that much invested in their son's driving habits would cross the street to defend him if he screwed up, much less all this.

Should be interesting as it plays out.

[pitohui]

3. good -- police who lie SHOULD cost the municipality a lot of money

and i say that as a person who has never (knock wood) received a speeding ticket

there is too much "revenue enhancement" going on and most folks don't have the ability to fight city hall

[BlooInBloo]

4. Good. Fuck the cops.

[Rebubula]

16. LOL...

....your personal hatred for cops is well known around here.

Thanks for stopping by.

[Chulanowa]

24. It's also well-founded

Ask anyone with a skin tone darker than your own, or an income less than your own.

But thanks for you contribution. Hey... is that bacon on your breath?

[Rebubula]

28. Nice one...

...actually, Bacon is always on my breath so I will take that as a compliment. Mmmmm...Bacon. I like to start off most every morning with Bacon and eggs at the Tastee Diner in Bethesda, MD.


Hatred of any one group, regardless of experience with a few in that group, is irrational. I lived in NYC for three years (91-94) and was mugged three times by young, black men. I do not fear young black men or hate them all due to the actions of a few.

[Chulanowa]

53. That's a really stupid comparison

You see, people choose to be cops. They don't choose their ethnicity. "Cop" is a job, with a job description and a list of perks and privileges - races don't have this.

Trying to paint distrust of cops as a version of racism is certainly a sign of a grotesque and diseased mind. Moreso when you realize that minorities are frequent targets of the cops.

[PM Martin]

37. Of course it is.

[Pangolin2]

6. Wrongful citations can be issued other ways (without radar) too. About 20 years ago

I was driving home and got pulled over by a cop who told me he 'clocked' me going 57 mph in a 35 zone.
My old tired Pontiac would barely go that fast and for sure not within the half-block where I had turned onto the main road but he wouldn't listen so I said OK just give me a ticket and we'll sort it out in court. (at the time we still had the option to actually take minor traffic cases to court...not sure about now) anyway I got it on the docket and when the case was called, I spoke to the judge "Your honor my car is not capable of reaching that speed after turning the corner where the officer followed me from to where he stopped me and if you will permit, I can prove it"

He said "okay I will continue this until Saturday and we will appoint a neutral party to drive your car to find out if you're being truthful"

And they did just that, they called up a very popular local 'stock car' driver who met me and the judge on the street. The three of us got into the car and Bill (the race driver) drove it as fast as he could around that corner and floored the gas...it took almost 2 blocks to get it to 50 and was already past the turnoff to my house!

The judge slapped his hand on top of the front seatback and said "case dismissed!"

True story! :D

[bbinacan]

7. Cool story. n/t

[dsc]

9. Great story except the cop should have been found in contempt

judges need to cut down on the lying just once or twice and it will vanish.

[PM Martin]

33. American cops need to have their powers severely curtailed.

They are not prize packages here either, but US cops are militant thugs.

[Aloha Spirit]

38. No way! that judge rocks.

Not nearly as awesome, but I used google streetview to get out of a ticket last year.

[Heddi]

8. I got a ticket for doing 50 in a 35

only that 1) there was no way that I was doing 50 and 2) there was no way I *could* have been doing 50

The cop got me in my neighborhood. I had gone down my street, turned left on another street. Two streets after my left hand turn was a stop-sign, which I stopped at and turned right.

The cop pulled me over after I turned right. Said he had gotten me on the street I made a left on doing 50.

Only there was no way I could have been doing 50. Firstly, the block he said he clocked me on was RIGHT after the turn. My car at the time was a POS Mazda Protege that could never have done 50 in that short of time.

Secondly, it was new years day night, and the roads were covered in ice. And the street between where I turned left and the stop sign 2 blocks later was uphill.

Not only could I not have accelerated from a stop, to a turn, to 50mph in the span of 1/2 a block (where he said he clocked me) on a flat dry surface because of the state of my car's engine, there was no way I could have done that in the span of 1/2 a block, with ice and snow on the road, going up hill in a car with no-wheel drive, no chains or anything. THEN on top of that even if my car WAS in tip top running condition, I'm not STUPID enough to go from a stop, to a left hand turn, up hill, with ice and snow on the road, accelerating to 50mph only to stop 2 block later.

The physics behind it just weren't there. The common sense (I'm a nurse, was going to work, and literally lived 4 blocks from my house. No reason to rush, I'll get there in 4.5 minutes, even with bad traffic) mandates that I wouldn't have done that. I wish I Had a GPS to show how fast I was going.

Thankfully, I was able to get a deferral on the ticket and only pay like $90 in court costs. Better than the $500 fine they were trying to levy on me (dangerous operation b/c more than 15 over the limit, at night, with snow/ice on the road) and the raise in insurance rates that would have come.

[DemReadingDU]

10. We are currently fighting a similar ticket

Spouse was coming down a hill, speed limit 55mph. At end of hill, speed limit changes to 35mph going into a left hand turn. Small town newly hired police chief in the village was traveling in opposite direction making the right turn to go up the hill. Says he clocked spouse going 47mph in the 35mph. Note, the cop was driving his car, he was not sitting in his car on the side of the road.

NO Way is this speed possible. Spouse says he was on the hill driving the 47mph in the 55mph, he was not in the 35mph zone. We have been doing FOIA to get village reports that show the income from tickets has gone from $1000 last year per month to $4000 to $8000 to $12000 per month this year. WOW, policing for profit.

Also have done FOIA to get employee records on the police chief.

Trial is tomorrow.


Edit: This ticket is $160. Expensive, but it's the harassing of the village residents that has to stop.

[Aloha Spirit]

39. Update tomorrow please! This is very interesting to me.

How did you think to use this defense?

[DemReadingDU]

46. Ths is the first we heard of the Petaluma case.

Spouse is adamant that he was doing the proper speed limit while on the hill. He feels wronged that the cop, he's actually the new police chief of this small village, would have given him the speeding ticket. The chief (mid 30's and arrogant) wasn't waiting at the bottom of the hill for unsuspecting drivers to cross over the to the lower speed zone. The chief was driving, up the hill, and must have had his radar on to catch anyone driving above the 35mph speed. And this village doesn't go from $1000 income per month due to traffic fines, to $12,000 income per month. Something sleazy is going on. So spouse got a lawyer, and decided to take this to a jury trial, which is tomorrow. I'll report back after the trial with the verdict.

[dmr]

52. I wish you well, and hope I see your post

The increase in ticket revenue is mighty suspicious. Twelve thousand is a lot of money!

Whatever happened to 'protect and serve'? It's criminal to me how some police departments gouge citizens with wrongful ticketing to phony drug forfeiture.

[Last Stand]

11. I got busted for Driving with a Black Man

in the passenger seat. I was issued a ticket for bogus circumstances. There was no other explanation except that I was in a white town with a "suspicious man" in the car. I'm convinced of it.

AS I was on my way to an appointment, I saw a cop by the side of the road up ahead, so I instinctively stepped on my brake. But when I looked at my speedometer, I was going the speed limit--exactly. (Even I was surprised.) So, I let off the brake, drove past the cop, and continued on until I saw the blue lights. I didn't think he was after me until he pulled me over. He said I was doing 50 in a 35 zone. WTF?

I beat the ticket on my second trip to court. The first time I went, the cop reiterated his lie to the Magistrate who said he'd cut the ticket in half. I was more concerned about surcharges which would run me about $600+, so I said no. Those don't get cut in half. The cop was a no-show at the District Court for my appeal.


Police are not as likely to be paid to appear in court to contest the fines these days because they often have to be paid overtime. ALWAYS APPEAL.

[Last Stand]

12. delete

[Orsino]

13. The GPS data doesn't clear him. It *can't*.

It only takes readings 30 seconds apart.

[TransitJohn]

32. Well of course! That's why they're using it.

It only takes readings 30 seconds apart.

That will give a velocity...the basis of a "speeding ticket." If you show the court evidence which proves you physically couldn't have been traveling at that velocity...well, it sounds exonerating to me.

[Orsino]

44. From the story...

...it doesn't appear that the available data clears the driver.

[elias7]

14. Cops always get the presumption of guilt on DU

A 17 year old boy was on his way to a raceway. A raceway.

His father (article does not say how much money he has spent on this "trivial" ticket) has made a video showing one can travel from ping 1 to ping 2 (about 0.375 miles in 30 seconds) averaging 45 mph. This presumes:

1) that the car started moving from its stopped position precisely after the first ping, and
2) that the kid did not put on his brakes upon seeing a cop car.

If either of these presumptions are wrong, then the family's case falls apart. If, for example, the light turned 5 seconds after the first ping, the kid's average speed would have been 54 mph.

Look, it's easy to feel like the cops are just out to screw the public, but that stereotyping is the same as the people who say that all people on welfare are trying to cheat the system or all republicans are assholes. Oh wait...

[Gormy Cuss]

21. His stepfather is a retired sheriff's lieutenant in the same county -- it's cop vs. cop.

Maybe the stepfather knows a little something about how law enforcement is done in Sonoma County.

[elias7]

23. Perhaps so,

Or maybe the father/cop expected some other outcome based on ancient experience (like a dismissal of the case, a back down by the cops and a clean record for his son).

We don't know. My point is that there is a knee jerk reaction on DU in any of these types of threads that indicate a mistrust and antipathy towards cops.

It's an ugly stereotype, just like how republicans stereotype welfare recipients. One bad apple...is it the exception or the rule?

[Gormy Cuss]

49. There's a knee jerk reaction by a handful of DUers in that regard.

Not all of us assume the cop's at fault. We also don't assume that the cop must be telling the truth.
Even those of us who have worked closely with law enforcement recognize that there ARE bad apples and they need to be weeded out.

[Liberal_in_LA]

40. interesting info

[Soylent Brice]

17. this is SO awesome.

not one fucking person in the department in a position of authority has had the intelligence to stop this case recognizing that they are full of shit, and got cuaght with their pants down.

this is fucking SWEET!!

this Malone kid is my HERO.

[Liberal_in_LA]

35. yeah. Hope the Malone kid doesn't disappear one night, driving down a dark road. Just kidding

[Soylent Brice]

51. i wouldn't even joke. people get disappeared all the time... n/t

[marlakay]

41. I am sure there are plenty of good cops

but I have heard true stories that scare the crap out of me about a bunch of not so good ones. My husbands brother was a cop in the 60/70's in the bay area and the stunts they pulled make me appalled.

From drugs to sleeping with pretty girls to get out of tickets, I don't know what pisses me off more...the fact that they bust people for doing the same things they do probably ranks right up there.

I see cops going fast all the time and they aren't chasing anyone. Around my state (WA) tickets are a big income source since we don't have income tax.

[BlooInBloo]

47. Try Trapster - Realtime phone updates of speed trap locations. Works well in Seattle area.

[EVDebs]

43. Hmmm.

Are police writing more tickets these days due to CA's financial meltdown ?

[TexasObserver]

48. It's important to make bad police conduct cost the cities which hire them.

This case could have been conceded by the city at any point. It is the city which has caused this matter to be so costly.

The GPS evidence makes the probability that the cop was right less likely to prevail. From the standpoint of good prosecutorial conduct, this case should have been dismissed, or pled down for a minimal court fee.

Cops lie all the time. I don't know why people pretend it's unusual. They lie because they see someone they don't like - maybe because it's some kid who reminds them of someone they hated in high school - and they charge the person. Maybe the kid was speeding 10 mph, and the cop lied to make the case cost more. I never assume the cop is telling the truth. They don't care about the truth. They care about making whatever case they've alleged.

[BlooInBloo]

50. "Cops lie all the time. I don't know why people pretend it's unusual."...

Really? You don't?