so what do they want us to do about health care for illegals?

[DesertFlower]

if someone comes into an emergency room with an injury do they want to ask them for their papers?

[elleng]

1. No, they prolly just want to say, Fergit it.

[DesertFlower]

4. i can't imagine a hospital

or a doctor in this country refusing to treat someone who is injured.

[elleng]

10. I agree, neither can I,

but I have read about such having happened.

[oligarhy]

2. they don't think that far ahead...

just the hate.

They can't figure out how to really fix the problem....or any problem, really.

[Raven]

3. I think they's say: "After you've picked my fields and cleaned my

house you can go on and die in the street."

[Kerrytravelers]

5. No, you're suppose to call the INS, then lock the injured person in a closet until the INS comes to

deport. If they die while waiting... oh well. That's what Jesus would do.

[DesertFlower]

7. we had a case here in phoenix a few months ago.

an SUV filled with illegals got into an accident. everyone was ejected with severe injuries. the driver who was the "coyote" got away, but they found him a few hours later at a phone booth.

the next day my husband overheard people complaining that these "illegals" were be treated.

[surrealAmerican]

39. You still have phone booths?

I haven't seen one of those in years.

[DesertFlower]

40. yep. not too many, but we do have them. nt

[atreides1]

6. That's It

You win the prize!!!!!

I myself find it hilarious that the Repukes are the ones who want everyone to carry identity papers, but accuse the Democrats of being Nazis.

[silverweb]

8. Papers of course!

They'd also prefer that illegals (and the destitute in general) walk around with TB and pneumonia and hepatitis and MRSA infections, rather than give them one ounce of "privilege" to be treated like human beings.

They're not worried about these infections being spread to themselves, of course. That's what barrio and ghetto segregation is for... to keep them and their germs isolated, out of sight, and out of mind.

Fools.

[The empressof all]

9. I've stopped many of these fools in their tracks

I just say..."My, it looks like the Republicans are advocating for National Identity Cards. And you know that card could be stolen so how would we really know that person whose leg has just been cut off is really an American. We're probably going to have to have everyone's DNA info encrypted on their cards but even better just to be safe we probably should just implant a chip in every citizen this way we can know who belongs here and who doesn't-and then we can also attach their bank and credit cards to the chip and we can get all get scanned on a regular basis." They probably think I'm nuts....but it shuts them up. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[dflprincess]

13. I'm surprised it shuts them up

I'd expect them to respond like they did with FISA the old "What do you care if you have nothing to hide?"

[customerserviceguy]

21. That's probably one significant reason

that the wingnuts are against universal healthcare, they know it would lead to National Identity Cards.

Frankly, I don't think they have to worry about that, I've observed that every time someone in Congress calls for photo ID (to be provided for free, even) for voting, it gets shouted down by our side, for some strange reason...

[damntexdem]

11. No, they want to deny them care while deporting them.

They wouldn't trust the papers, anyway, so they just want to racially profile who will be denied care and deported.

They want this even if someone they target presented with a deadly, contagious disease.

[customerserviceguy]

12. There's a difference between treating someone who comes into an ER

with a true emergency, and filling up doctors' office waiting rooms with people here illegally getting one more freebie from the American taxpayer. I figure that is the reason that healthcare reform to cover illegal immigrants is quite unpopular, and not just with wingnuts.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. People here illegally do not get free non-emergency health care paid for by taxpayers

:eyes:

[TxRider]

15. They do in Texas.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Link?

[JonQ]

18. Yeah they do

they just go in complaining on some life threatening illness and clog up our ERs.

I think the best is to give immediate, no questions asked care for legit life threatening ailments, and then send them home, along with a bill (we could detract the yearly total from any aid being given to their home countries).

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Baloney

I teach their children. One of our kids nearly died a couple years ago because she had no access to health care. Unless they are critically ill, they will not get treatment in an ER unless they pay for it. Hospitals turn them and the uninsured away all the time.

[TxRider]

33. Parkland hospital alone

Delivers about 27 babies a day, paid for mostly by medicaid, to illegal aliens.

And they can get the same care from the county hospitals and places like UTMB in Galveston as anyone else can.

Not that I mind. We have no income tax here, and illegals buy goods and pay sales tax just like the rest of us. Property taxes too either through ownership or rents.

Many also use a fake SSN for work and have federal taxes withheld as well.

I don't know how it is in other states, but here is the law on access to free health care in Texas.

"In Texas, all non-profit hospitals are required to provide a certain amount of free health care to people who have no health insurance, or who cannot afford to pay for hospital care."

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/accessq&a.shtml

Every county in Texas is required by law to provide these services to people who cannot afford to pay per DSHS.

Counties must provide these basic health care services:

Immunizations
Medical screening services
Annual physical examinations
Inpatient hospital services
Outpatient hospital services, including hospital-based ambulatory surgical center services
Rural health clinics
Laboratory and x-ray services
Family planning services
Physician services
Payment for not more than three prescription drugs per month
Skilled nursing facility services

[JonQ]

41. You want to know how I know that you've never

been to an ER in houston?

[TxRider]

42. Are you speaking to me?

I don't believe there is a single ER in the Houston area I haven't been to.

I used to contract to deliver emergency surgical items to hospitals in Houston.

I was even a patient in a couple.

[JonQ]

44. And you still claim illegals

only use our medical system for emergency, life saving care?

Were your eyes closed when you went there?

[TxRider]

52. No I claimed no such thing

I said they go to our ER's for many reasons, to our free county clinics, to our maternity wards, to our non profit hospitals.. Just like any uninsured does, because in many cases ID isn't checked at all, or not checked well, as a matter of policy though there are exceptions and true emergency care cannot be denied in any case.

For example, medicaid pays for the ~27 babies a day at Parkland to illegals, and I believe federal funding requires them to take the women regardless of ID, regardless of immigration status.

Most paid for through property tax, charitable contributions and medicaid.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. dupe

[customerserviceguy]

19. Oh, it's not officially free

but when you go in, sign forms agreeing to pay, then split, it's free just the same.

Makes it a bit easier if you use the fake name you got on the driver's license you bought out of some guy's trunk, that you were working on last year.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. And how are the American taxpayers paying for it then?

[customerserviceguy]

30. It's a combination of things

Remember a few days ago when someone brought up that Joe Wilson voted for legislation that subsidized healthcare for illegal immigrants? The figure bandied about was $250,000, but I came across a copy of the bill that showed it was actually $250 million per year. This was Section 1011 of the Medicare Part D legislation. I'm sure there are other reimbursement considerations sprinkled throughout spending bills.

Mostly, the costs that doctors and hospitals cannot recover from nonpayers (for any reason) just get added to the charges that those who pay are assessed. It's one of the reasons I favor single payer, we'd all get charged the same price for the same things.

[LanternWaste]

25. I know a lot of Americans who've done just that...

I know a lot of Americans who've done just that...

[customerserviceguy]

31. Yes, they certainly have

and if those citizens get meaningful useful healthcare, they won't have to be liars and thieves to be able to care for themselves and their families.

It's all a matter of who you believe "deserves" it. Many say only citizens, some say anybody who can drag themselves on to our shores. Maybe if we can provide it adequately for our own citizens first, we can expand it out to those we have charitable feelings for.

[LanternWaste]

32. I'd rather triage be based on medical necessity

I'd rather triage and health care be based on medical necessity than based on a map.

Less a charity and more a moral duty and obligation as per my own ethics-- but that's just me.

[customerserviceguy]

34. Triage is something where most folks would agree with you

but routine stuff, less so. I'd like to be able to travel to Canada or Australia without a passport, but those goofy maps, you know...

[LanternWaste]

37. Yup. I know too well

"but those goofy maps, you know..."

Yup. I know too well-- far too many people still consider those imaginary red and blue lines more important than people. I have full faith and confidence we'll get there one day...

Bu til then, I do my own part.

[The empressof all]

17. And a public health reminder

That undocumented worker sitting next to you who can't see a doctor for his chronic cough out of fear of deportation could be carrying a variant of TB.. That undocumented worker in the kitchen of your favorite restaurant who couldn't call in sick out of fear of losing his job could be carrying hepatitis.

Health care for all helps to protect the health of all.

[customerserviceguy]

20. Or, just punishing the hell out of his employer for accepting phony ID

might protect you just the same.

[TxRider]

35. How is an employer supposed to know it's fake?

[customerserviceguy]

36. If they used e-verify

the vast majority of fakes would be discovered easily.

[TxRider]

43. Didn't congress propose that at one time?

[customerserviceguy]

47. Possibly

but I don't think they made it mandatory. The best way to deal with it is to have e-verify to be used for the deductability of wages paid.

No verification, no deduction. Instead of being taxed in a Social Security only bracket (or maybe just the first tax bracket, but most falsifiers claim a mega number of allowances), that money gets taxed at the employer's high tax bracket.

[rucky]

45. For some reason, I don't think that's what Wilson is screaming about.

[pitohui]

16. straw man much? we ALL already get emergency care at the ER w/out papers

ERs are required to stabilize anyone, including by the way citizens of this country who don't have papers (homeless, for example)

that is not the issue

the issue is that americans who seek non emergency health care either can't get it or can't get it w.out losing their homes, life savings, etc

how many more decades does my friend have to go around with a bullet in his head from the 1970s because he can't get it removed because he didn't have health insurance and since he has an object in his brain that needs to be removed he can't ever get it?

how many people have to go w.out cancer treatment because they are stable but don't have insurance...they're stable but they're also terminal w/out chemo

stop playing the illegal straw man card -- nobody gets turned away in emergencies, unfortunately it is LONG TERM care, not emergencies, that are destroying people

do you seriously want my friends to continue dying because this country, like all other countries, can't afford to provide ONGOING care for all of latin america??? because you KNOW it isn't about emergencies, there are ALREADY legal protections that i know personally people have used to receive treatment in emergencies

i went 15 yrs w.out health insurance, this issue means something to me even if it's just a fun abstraction for you

if you want us to wait until we are rich enough to treat the whole world, what you really want is for my generation (the middle-aged) to die

[Gman2]

24. I'm going to slug assholes in the face if I hear this shit in public.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. ERs are only required to provide care for critically ill patients

And only if the hospital receives federal funds. If you are not here legally you can't walk into an ER for routine health care and have the bill paid for by American taxpayers.

[SoCalDem]

46. Call me paranoid, but I think there is some truth to that

Having frittered away all the extra money Boomers have been paying in for decades, our government may just be stalling, in hopes that enough of us die early, so health care only needs to be provided for a select-few.

If immigrants are expected to be too afraid to utilize services, and older folks are dying off at a faster clip, the "supply" may "meet" demand, somewhere in the middle once we are gone.

Our pensions went klabooey
Our 401-ks went kablooey
Our home equity went kablooey
Our jobs went kablooey

those stressors alone can induce enough stress to shorten lives, and when you add in unaffordable health care..well..you know:(

[UTUSN]

38. They CARE?!1 n/t

[TheKentuckian]

48. They want them to be dumped on the curb to die but they want us to take the heat for their twisted

dirt.

They just dance and dance and dance around it with every hope that we'll take the bait or failing that they can continue their standard lies and hate of teh brown peoples.

[progressivebydesign]

49. ironically, it's already costing those idiots more money to treat them as it is now.

And they cannot be refused treatment, regardless of their immigration status. We just pay more now than if we had some sort of govt program to reimburse hospitals, etc. I don't favor giving Illegal aliens insurance access in the same way citizen would have (no Country does that), but there needs to be something in place to handle this so that the exorbitant costs of indigent care (which is always more expensive because they don't seek out preventive care) is already bankrolled by taxpayers and consumers.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

50. Aren't Illegals required to be covered under ER visits?

I thought that ERs cannot turn people away for emergency care regardless of coverage or immigration status... Am I misinformed?
If that's the way it is now I can only imagine that that policy would be continued... where illegals would still have ER access but citizens would have coverage for primary care and emergency care.

[Raine]

51. Let them die

that's their answer ... so much for "compassionate CONservatism". x(