ACORN Just Got Stripped of All Public Funding (Ammendment passed 83-7)

[berni_mccoy]

An ammendment was just tacked onto the HUD and Transportation funding bill. How is it Repukes can get anything they want done by slipstreaming an ammendment onto any bill but we're stuck fighting about a PO?

http://www.cdobs.com/archive/featured/durbin-burris-vote-to-continue-funding-acorn,65681

Senator Mike Johanns (R-NE) introduced an amendment to the HUD and Transportation appropriation bill to strip ACORN of all federal funding. A week ago, Johanns wouldn’t have gotten the amendment to the floor. Today, however, after three straight days of BigGovernment.com’s video exposés of ACORN offices in Washington DC, New York City, and Baltimore offering assistance to pimping, tax evasion, and trafficking in underage Salvadorean girls, Johanns not only got his vote — but he got an impressive bipartisan showing. The Senate passed the Johanns amendment 83-7.

The seven Senators supporting ACORN:

Dick Durbin (D-IL)
Roland Burris (D-IL)
Robert Casey (D-PA)
Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY)
Patrick Leahy (D-VT)
Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI)

[Raineyb]

1. Well it looks like the RW won.

A group that worked in the community taken down based on video from some right winged asshats with an agenda. Do we even have evidence besides this (potentially doctored) tape?

[aquart]

4. Yep. Mission Accomplished. Glorious Victory.

Let's make this their last.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

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[Maru Kitteh]

2. Johanns is a sack of hairless balls. Always has been.

He's revolting.

This is sickening, but not overly surprising.

[paulsby]

3. i'm glad the senators have more reason than most of the apologists here

let's deal with facts.

three frigging ACORN offices.

they screwed the pooch.

[EFerrari]

7. Give me a frigging break. Do you know how many offices ACORN has?

And I don't see them raping fifteen year old girls, offing them and their families and trying to burn the bodies like our brave boys at Blackwater who get a big fat wad of public funds. In fact, on the list of outfits that get public funds and who actually commit crimes, let alone behave inappropriately, ACORN can't even be in the top 1000. This was a witchhunt.

The right wing won this round in their continuing quest to suppress black votes.

Apologists, my baldheaded granny.

/typo

[cali]

21. uh Blackwater had nothing to do with that horrible crime

try and get your facts straight. Smith and the other criminals who committed said crime were part of the regular armed forces. Beyond that, this is clearly a case of the right wing demonizing and destroying

[EFerrari]

56. You're right It wasn't Blackwater. We have to stop funding the Army!

lol

[Raineyb]

68. It was Wakenhut. Another contractor. You may have had the

company incorrect but the sentiment certainly wasn't. Unless we're talking about a completely different scandal altogether. (So many scandals with these contractors one can't even keep them all straight sometimes.)

[michreject]

69. And how long before we're attacked?

Not one of your better suggestions.:hi:

[EFerrari]

91. My point is, it's silly to defund an entire organization

because of the behavior of a few individuals. :)

[malaise]

23. You are 100% correct

Dems can be so gullible it isn't funny.

[paulsby]

25. not the issue

the issue is not how many offices ACORN has, the issue is out of how many ACORN offices the investigators went to, did they uncover this piece of scum behavior from employees, willingly facilitating the trafficking of child prostitutes.

but the apologism goes on. because it's ACORN, so facts don't matter.

[jbnow]

37. Because it's ACORN they should act speedily without investigating?

Because they are the rw boogie man and only provide services to the poor they should be cut off funding for their programs?
Because they had tape of some doing it even if offices that turned them into the police those should close too, because it's ACORN?

If some people in some of the places that the right wing crew went to did this every branch in all of the states should be defunded quickly because it is ACORN? The services probably don't matter because poor people have so damn much.

ACORN says at least some tape was altered to change the conversation. But that shouldn't be checked first because they are ACORN?

because it's ACORN, facts don't matter?

[paulsby]

43. facts do matter

and ACORN screwed the pooch.

[EFerrari]

59. Facts do matter so there should be no investigation?

Okay.

[paulsby]

60. who said that?

nobody said that that i am aware of. i'm all for an investigation. who isn't?

[lewiston]

87. Amen

[EFerrari]

55. Bullshit. By the same logic, we should stop funding the police

because of a few bad cops.

[paulsby]

58. not the same logic at all

by a longshot.

we need to fund an organization that UNLIKE ACORN can screen and monitor their employees. that's not too much to ask to get federal money

[EFerrari]

61. Yes, it is the same logic. Let's start with the NYPD.

NYPD detective pimped runaway, 13, authorities say

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/31/cop.prostitution/index.html

Then we can move on to all departments that take protection money. :)

[paulsby]

64. and again, it's disanalogous

we can find example of corrupt people in all sorts of org's.

but when you approach and org and from the get-go, you get cooperation in setting up a child prostitution ring at three seperate offices, you DEFUND that org.

those who receive federal money for doing such projects bear the burden of monitoring their employees and hiring good people, not scum.

even if the NYPD were massively corrupt, NY city would not defund them, the feds would put them on federal watch like they did with LAPD.

[EFerrari]

86. Even if? LOL. While we're at it, we have to defund DEA, CIA and FBI

all of whom have been implicated at some time in prostitution, drug running and money laundering.

We could save a bunch of money this way!

[Solomon]

99. One day you'll learn that you don't matter.

You must get paid by the post.

[woo me with science]

51. You are right!!!!!!!!

They must have visited every single office!!!!!!!! It is so crazy that they found THREE!!!!!!!They must have asked a brazillion!!!!!!!!!


:yourock: :headbang:

[Luminous Animal]

8. Every single fucking corporation that has had a contract

with the government has had corruption, fraud, and abuses uncovered and fines levied and yet every single fucking corporation continues to get renewed and new contracts.

I guess it only matters when it's community organizers, eh? And this was a totally knee-jerk reaction (just like the condemnation of MoveOn.org) with ZERO investigation.

It's pitchfork justice and it stinks.

[texasleo]

22. ACORN was never worth the trouble.

[JVS]

77. What's your frigging beef with ACORN?

[paulsby]

80. i have no "beef " with them

i think that the congress voted correctly in choosing not to fund them in the future.

considering the evidence uncovered as to their abysmal employee screening and monitoring, it's the right decision

[JVS]

82. Yes you do. So out with it!

What's your problem with them. Police, few bad apples. Corporations, a few bad apples. A government made up of the most heinously corrupt people to walk the face of the earth, bad apples. ACORN, total evil that must be destroyed. What brings you to this conclusion?

[paulsby]

83. again with the strawmen

who said i thought ACORN needed to be "destroyed".

i think the decision to stop FEDERALLY FUNDING them is sound.

they are free to get funds from other sources, as they already do.

but i don't think the federal govt. should fund them in the future GIVEN the evidence that has been uncovered.

[olddixiedem]

5. issues

We have to focus on the issues

[Luminous Animal]

9. Neutering and possibly destroying one of the most

effective advocates for low-income and poor people is an issue. Who's next?

[paulsby]

26. advocates for child sex trafficking too

since that clearly wasn't a deterrent to them offering great advice on tax evasion and business advice for child sex traffickers to evade the long arm of the law.

and at taxpayer expense!

what a great advocate!

[Gold Metal Flake]

40. Due process is so last century.

Bow down to your right-wing media overlords with your bad self.

[paulsby]

42. bow down to your absurd rhetoric

when you have no points to make

[Gold Metal Flake]

47. My point was made.

It simply interferes with your agenda, and you resent that.

[paulsby]

49. ah. another refuge of those with no argument. attack my motives! i have an "agenda"

same evasive rhetoric. different post.

[Gold Metal Flake]

53. LOL! Allow me to redirect you back to my original point.

As stated in post #45 by jbnow and ignored by you:

In every state, at all the offices? And you checked to be sure the tapes weren't altered to change the conversation as ACORN indicated...because a right winger would never do that?

Maybe that's not true. Maybe there are not police reports when they called police about the prostitution. Did you and congress already investigate?

I bet that employees in at least 3 Walgreens and Rite-aid pharmacies has been caught getting prescription drugs to share with friends. I hope Congress will act swiftly to make sure they get no government money via government insurance programs at any of their branches nationwide.

[paulsby]

57. dis-analogies aren't much of a point

the issue is that two undercover investigators were able to get employees at three seperate ACORN offices to help them out in setting up a child prostitution business.

that speaks VERY poorly to ACORN's personnel screening and monitoring.

THREE offices so far

[Gold Metal Flake]

65. This issue in this thread is you advocating extra-judicial conviction.

Who are the "investigators"?

Where is the uncut-unadulterated evidence?

When was the trial held?

What was the verdict?

Why do you hate due process?

[paulsby]

67. nobody's advocating conviction. nice strawman

i'm saying the DEFUNDING was correct.

the decision to not fund in the future is not subject to criminal trial rules such as guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, etc.

it's at THE DISCRETION OF THE LEGISLATURE.

they are MORE than free to petition the govt. with facts that support their side of the story.

but congress is free to act with the evidence they have now, which is substantial.

agencies like ACORN are not GUARANTEED future funding from the feds.

[Gold Metal Flake]

72. And I am saying you are wrong.

And you are. But the Republicans would agree with you. So would anyone who does not believe in due process.

[paulsby]

74. what utter rubbish

you don't even know what due process is.

here's a hint.

in terms of funding ACORN, due process is the CONGRESS VOTING.

that's the process.

ACORN is not "innocent until proven guilty". they do not have the right to subpoena witnesses. this aint a criminal trial.

it's at congress' discretion, THAT is the only PROCESS that is DUE ACORN as to the future funding of same.

it's black letter law. you don't understand the difference.


if i am accused of excessive force, i get due process. that does not mean that it requires a criminal prosecution for me to be fired. it requires a # of steps, NONE of which require a conviction.

that is the highest level of due process we see- criminal trials.

this is orders of magnitude less extensive.

[Gold Metal Flake]

85. What is utter rubbish is defunding a program in response to a RW smear campaign.

That is what this is about. They win, you cheer.

[jbnow]

45. In every state, at all the offices? And you checked to be sure

the tapes weren't altered to change the conversation as ACORN indicated...because a right winger would never do that?

Maybe that's not true. Maybe there are not police reports when they called police about the prostitution. Did you and congress already investigate?

I bet that employees in at least 3 Walgreens and Rite-aid pharmacies has been caught getting prescription drugs to share with friends. I hope Congress will act swiftly to make sure they get no government money via government insurance programs at any of their branches nationwide.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JonQ]

30. So as long as you claim to help poor people

you can get away with anything?

Hey the catholic church provides many services to the poor, I guess we should ignore that whole sex abuse thing too?

[Luminous Animal]

52. Has Catholic Charities lost governemnt

contracts to provide social services? Nope.

[JonQ]

81. They weren't government funded to begin with

so not really applicable.

[Luminous Animal]

88. Are you talking about ACORN or Catholic Charities?

Because both receive government grants to provide social services.

[EFerrari]

78. If a whole organization has to be punished for the behavior of a few individuals

we have to shut down the Federal government immediately and the Democratic Party, too!

[Luminous Animal]

6. And yet Blackwater gets its contract renewed.

Motherfucking chickenshit Democrats.

[Hannah Bell]

10. yep, isn't that surprising?

so, what's the score?

acorn defunded, van jones resigned, rev. wright persona non grata...

[Luminous Animal]

11. I am vinegar-pissing angry that Democrats

have participated in this lynching.

[paulsby]

44. exposing corruption = lynching

what a twisted dictionary

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

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[Raineyb]

70. ...

[lpbk2713]

12. More placating of the RWers.

Certainly there is something more deserving of the time and effort.

[Luminous Animal]

14. When Moveon (a mostly white middle class organzation)

was censored by Congress, this place exploded with outrage.

Whereas, ACORN, an organization that does the incredibly difficult work of on the ground organizing, advocacy, and assistance, barely gets a peep of protest here.

The vast majority of people on DU did not blame the entire organization or the administrators of MoveOn for circumstances beyond their control but, apparently, ACORN does not get to benefit from similar generosity.

[Raineyb]

71. Gee I wonder why.... n/t

[Indigent]

76. Moveon wasn't censured. The attempt failed n/t

[Raineyb]

89. The house passed a resolution condeming Moveon after the

right wing threw a hissy fit over an ad they put out.

You're just plain wrong.

[Indigent]

92. Show me where in that resolution the name of Moveon appears n/t

[Luminous Animal]

94. Actually it was the Senate.

And it didn't have to name MoveOn but it was in direct response to the MoveOn ad.

Here is the text that is included in S 9234 (emphasis mine):

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?r110:./temp/~r110YcAlN5

SEC. 1070. SENSE OF SENATE ON GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS.

(a) Findings.--The Senate makes the following findings:

(1) The Senate unanimously confirmed General David H. Petraeus as Commanding General, Multi-National Force-Iraq, by a vote of 81-0 on January 26, 2007.

(2) General Petraeus graduated first in his class at the United States Army Command and General Staff College.

(3) General Petraeus earned Masters of Public Administration and Doctoral degrees in international relations from Princeton University.

(4) General Petraeus has served multiple combat tours in Iraq, including command of the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) during combat operations throughout the first year of Operation Iraqi Freedom, which tours included both major combat operations and subsequent stability and support operations.

(5) General Petraeus supervised the development and crafting of the United States Army and Marine Corps counterinsurgency manual based in large measure on his combat experience in Iraq, scholarly study, and other professional experiences.

(6) General Petraeus has taken a solemn oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.

(7) During his 35-year career, General Petraeus has amassed a distinguished and unvarnished record of military service to the United States as recognized by his receipt of a Defense Distinguished Service Medal, two Distinguished Service Medals, two Defense Superior Service Medals, four Legions of Merit, the Bronze Star Medal for valor, the State Department Superior Honor Award, the NATO Meritorious Service Medal, and other awards and medals.

(8) A recent attack through a full-page advertisement in the New York Times by the liberal activist group, Moveon.org, impugns the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all the members of the United States Armed Forces.

(b) Sense of Senate.--It is the sense of the Senate--

(1) to reaffirm its support for all the men and women of the United States Armed Forces, including General David H. Petraeus, Commanding General, Multi-National Force-Iraq;

(2) to strongly condemn any effort to attack the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all the members of the United States Armed Forces; and

(3) to specifically repudiate the unwarranted personal attack on General Petraeus by the liberal activist group Moveon.org.

[Indigent]

96. Right. So these are two different circumstances

Comparing apples an oranges is bad debate. A direct mention is much more damaging.

[Luminous Animal]

98. There was a direct mention. I put that direct mention in bold.

3) to specifically repudiate the unwarranted personal attack on General Petraeus by the liberal activist group Moveon.org.

[drm604]

13. Has this passed?

What about the house? Have they voted yet?

[L. Coyote]

15. Exactly. Frikkin dog and pony show so far.

[berni_mccoy]

16. The amendment passed, yes. It's now part of the HUD and Transportation bill.

[blogslut]

18. And now that bill has to be voted on

correct?

[drm604]

28. I'm still confused.

Has the bill been voted on by both the House and the Senate? Has it been signed by the President?

The subject line states that ACORN has been stripped of all public funding. Has that actually happened yet?

[Statistical]

31. No it hasn't but that is how the game is played.

Once the amendment is attached to the bill the vote becomes on the bill.

No congress member is going to vote against the bill because it will simply show up as a no vote not as no* (I liked the bill but there was an anti-ACORN amendment and I was in fact voting against that).

Given the amendment passed this easily there is essentially <1% chance the bill dies or the Prez doesn't sign it.

[Blue Diadem]

50. According to this, house passed a similar bill without restrictions.

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN1422457320090914

snip: The House of Representatives passed a similar spending bill without restrictions on ACORN. The House and Senate must resolve differences before a final measure can be sent to Obama to sign into law.

[drm604]

84. This is what I was thinking.

The ACORN thing could be removed before it goes to Obama. Hopefully it will be. I'd hate to see ACORN lose funding. First, because of the good they do, but also because I'd hate like HELL to see the ridiculous smear campaign actually work. We can't allow this kind of mudslinging to work. We can't allow bullshit to determine public policy! :grr:

[hfojvt]

17. Is this mostly for show?

http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=17857&tx_irfaq_pi1=161&tx_irfaq_pi1=P2lkPTE3ODU3&cHash=3b5f677fec


"Does ACORN Recieve Federal Funding?


The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now does not apply for nor does it receive any federal grants.

ACORN has had contracts with other nonprofit organizations to perform work on projects which received federal grant support. For example, ACORN has received contracts to:


Identify families eligible to receive food stamps and assist them to apply.
Identify homeowners facing foreclosure and deliver them for housing counseling and loss mitigation services.
Provide lead paint remediation services to households with children living in older neighborhoods.
The contracts that ACORN receives on these projects are for delivering specific activities, all of which are tax-exempt qualified in accordance with federal grant guidelines. No payments are received until work product has been delivered.

None of ACORN's contracts to perform work on projects receiving federal grant money has provided funding for voter registration."

The amendment says they cannot be funded indirectly either, but I am not sure how dependent ACORN is on such contracts.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

29. But....but....they receive billions and billions of government money!!!!

Monica Crowley sez so!!!!

:sarcasm: :eyes: :puke:

[Corey_Baker08]

19. I worked with ACORN alongside John Edwards Fighting To Raise The Minimum Wage...This is BS

I just cannot believe. It almost seems like a few bad apples ruined the bunch because these right wing fucks pushed and pushed for their demise. I know these people-these are regular people who believe in this issues they champion, there is nothing sinister about fighting for what you believe!!!

This is a sad moment for activist across the country. Another thing ACORN in partnership with John Edwards got the minimum wage raised in many states such as mine right here in Ohio. Now thanks to them not only myself but many hardworking people are finally getting paid a fair minimum wage.

Thank-You ACORN and NEVER GIVE UP ON THE WAR ON POVERTY!!!

[cap]

27. what will ACORN do without federal funding?

are they stripped of federal funding temporarily or just for now?

Can the organizations underneath ACORN reunite under a different banner? I guess everyone will know that they are targeted now.

[cali]

20. I'm so glad to be represented by Pat Leahy and Bernie Sanders

So sad that only 7 voted against this.

[SPedigrees]

38. Me too. We've sent only our finest to DC and they never fail to come through. eom

[Jim Lane]

24. I'm pleasantly surprised to see Gillibrand on the list

I was disappointed when Paterson named her. We had many people in New York who would've been much better in the Senate.

Considering that she has to run next year, though, this vote does display some adherence to principle. Yes, it may help shore up her support in New York City, which is help that she as an upstater can use -- but it's more likely to hurt her, if Giuliani or some second- or third-tier Republican candidate tries to use it against her.

I'm still not completely happy with Paterson's choice, but my disappointment has abated somewhat.

On the other hand, Chuck Schumer, also up next year, could be re-elected without spending a dime. He faces one of the easiest races on record; last time around, he won a huge victory, and this year, because of Clinton's resignation, any halfway credible Republican candidate will go after Gillibrand, not him. He was completely free to do the right thing. He blew it.

[Raineyb]

73. I have to agree with you on all your points.

I too was not happy with Paterson's choice although I'm waiting until after election to see what happens. I've seen too much bait and switch to be completely mollified by her current voting streak. However, it was heartening to see her vote against this amendment. Schumer on the other hand continues to disappoint.

[grok]

32. JPMorgan Chase Asked to Stop Funding ACORN

was searching for acorn under google news and found this tidbit just moments ago. Not big yet but it could spread.

Apparently the RW is now aiming to "boycott" or at least dry up funding for ACORN.

It's eerily reminisent of the Color of Change boycott of Glenn Beck and might even be using the same list of sponsors. Payback time?

http://www.nlpc.org/stories/2009/09/15/jpmorgan-chase-asked-stop-funding-acorn

[Statistical]

34. This likely will have legs...

99% of the population doesn't read beyond the headline. The headline is "ACORN caught in child prostitution sting"
No company wants to be even indirectly associated with that. A company doesn't even want to have to explain how/why the story is more complex that than. Some PR is just toxic. They likely will get a lot of strings cut.

[slackmaster]

33. They got punked, but should have had strong policies in place to not support criminal activity

Anyone who comes in and says they want help setting up a criminal enterprise should be turned over to law enforcement, not encouraged.

[iceman66]

46. You hit the nail on the head.

The conduct of the Acorn employees captured on tape was so egregious that I don't see how we can reasonably expect our Congressional leaders to expend any political capital defending the organization.

Now imagine if they HAD done the right thing and involved law enforcement - the whole thing would have blown up in the freepers' faces.

Acorn really shot themselves in the foot!

[Luminous Animal]

95. The next time a Catholic priest is caught diddling

an underage boy, I expect similar outrage and calls for cessation of government grants to Catholic Charities. No Congressional leaders need to expend any capital in defending ACORN, all they need to do is dismiss it.

But no, our Dems in congress enjoy empty moral posturing as much as the Pubs.

The biggest fallout will be on the backs of those who can least afford it. ACORN does the great work in assisting poor people to find housing and to keep them in housing.

[tammywammy]

54. Agreed n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

79. That's pretty much where I fall too. Wouldn't have been an issue if they'd done right

in the first place.

It's tragic for the vast majority of good workers and volunteers for Acorn and the families and communities they serve.

Hopefully other, even better, organizations will rise quickly to take their place.

[woo me with science]

93. Thank you. nt

[npk]

100. How was ACORN supporting criminal activity.

ACORN fired the employees almost immediately upon the news breaking. They have turned over all record and reports to the government and to law enforcement and been cooperative every step of the way. A few bad employees will be found at any corporation to include law enforcement agencies both federal and state. LEO has some of the strictest policies in place to try and discourage corruption and yet it still happens. You simply can't prevent this. What is telling in all this is how ACORN has done everything they could to cooperate while the right wing has pretended like they are covering up a huge much large scandal. These so called undercover investigators went to one ACORN office after another until they found a few corrupt individuals. Wow what massive fraud. Give me a break.

[ThatsMyBarack]

35. Sorry to hear that.

I'm glad my Senator (Durbin) supported it!

[dembotoz]

36. i think we need a listing of right wing groups the get fed funds

whats good for the goose should be good for the gander

[democracy1st]

39. this whole party including this admin is weak as hell

[lpbk2713]

41. Get Limbaugh off Armed Forces Radio

If they really are as concerned about subversive influences as they seem to want us to believe,
then getting that lying hatemonger off Armed Forces Radio would be the best place to start.

[iceman66]

48. Or at least give equal time to liberal talkers!

I really don't think that Limbaugh would be able to compete against, for example, Ed Schultz, given a level playing field.

[western mass]

75. Democrats know how to get things done!

...when it's right-wing interests calling the shots, that is.

Don't worry, liberals will still vote for you next time. They always do.

[kenfrequed]

90. hmm

I suspect we are going to learn in the coming days that the 'employees' of Acorn were paid plants and operatives and that the whole 'pimp' thing was a con job to provide cover for this assassination attempt on a group that actually gets the poor to vote.

[ecstatic]

97. Because of one employee? Interesting. Shouldn't Congress be stripped

of funding too? Just to keep things consistent. :shrug: Hopefully a better organization will replace ACORN. But in a way I'm kind of glad to be done with this RW talking point (and once again, they win).

[Stinky The Clown]

101. Mission Accomplished

Damned uppity community organizers ........