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RW Setup of ACORN was attempted in numerous offices and failed:San Diego, L.A. Miami, NYC and Philly

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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:41 PM
Original message
RW Setup of ACORN was attempted in numerous offices and failed:San Diego, L.A. Miami, NYC and Philly
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/27139.html

“I cannot and I will not defend the actions of the workers depicted in the video,” Lewis said in her statement. She added that the “scam,” was also attempted but failed at other ACORN offices in San Diego, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, and Philadelphia."

So apparently I WAS right, they went around to a lot of different offices trying to get some low level ACORN employee on tape saying something stupid or illegal - this was EXACTLY what I said, a COINTELPRO style operation to discredit ACORN by using the idiocy of a few low level employees caught on film saying things in a contrived situation and NOT acting under the policy or direction of ACORN executives.

Indeed these slime conducting setup have most likely broken recording laws in Maryland and D.C.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/27139.html#ixzz0RCoxkYgj
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Of course they did. I can't believe anybody here is falling for this bs. n/t
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I've only seen a few concern trolls being 'very, very concerned'...
what did I miss?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Nothing that would surprise you very much.
:)
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. indeed
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 02:46 PM by fascisthunter
;-)
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Concern trolls?
That's pretty sad when you think about it, given what was displayed in those videos.

Bryant

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. There was a thread brimming with them earlier.
The troll that started it got flushed, thankfully.

But the rest of them are still around I'm sure. :)
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Yeah why on earth would anybody be concerned with a story about two ACORN workers
happily giving advice on setting up an underage brothel. Only someone who hates black people could believe such nonsense or even pay any attention to it.

Bryant
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. There's actual concern and then there's concern troll BS.
Most of us can smell the difference.
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Ah. So what exactly is the difference?
Cause I sure got shat on for bringing this story up a few days ago.

Bryant
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. That's something you can only learn from experience.
Good luck.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. You are right!!!!!!
Child whoring is not important!!!!! Also, only 3 of 8 offices would DO IT!!!!! That is not very high at ALL!!!!!!!!

They voted for Obama!!!!!!:toast: :yourock: :woohoo: :headbang: :yourock:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. Citation for the "child whoring"?
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 03:39 PM by redqueen
I've only read about money laundering.

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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. YOu are so SMART!!!!!!!!!!!!
I never THOUGHT of THAT!!!!!!!!

Just because they heard about the girls on the tape, dosent mean they are HELPING!!!!!!!! Also I am sure they would be NICE to them!!!!!!!
\

You are BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!YOu must be a LAWYER!!!! I HOPE YOU are on this CASE!!!!!!!!!

Keep UP THE GOOD FIGHT and I will TOO!!!!!!!
:pals: :yourock: :headbang: :yourock: :patriot:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. What are you talking about?
I've seen two posters talking about "child whoring" on this site, a troll and you. Do you have a link to a news story about this?
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #64
72. wow. so, you have mad skillz to ferret out concern trolls on this topic AND
you freely admit you aren't even familiar with the BASIC case facts.

wow.

that is beyond illogical. it's inconceivable!
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #72
82. The two aren't mutually exclusive, you know.
I can be unfamiliar with this story and still recognize a concern troll by their tactics.

Think harder, I know you can do it!
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #37
71. you sound like the supreme court describing obscenity
must be nice to be all omniscient and shit when it comes to ferreting out evul concern trollage (tm).
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #71
83. Nobody (well almost nobody) got it but it was good one paulsby
Cliff notes for those who missed it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #83
89. thanks. i try nt
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #34
56. The difference is
You can sense a bit of delight from the real trolls in seeing ACORN go down.

Real concern comes from people who wonder about the damage this has done to Obama and Democrats in general.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #56
73. bwahahahahaha! no, real concern comes
from those who are less concerned about the POLITICAL implications of this asshattery amongst ACORN, than concern that ACORN employees would so willingly facilitate tax evasion, document fraud, and child prostitution

iow, it's not the scandal. no, that's not important. it's how the scandal affects obama and democrats in general that matters!

never have i heard a more perfect example of bald ideology trumping common sense and morals.

good job

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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
58. SIX Workers
TWO from each of THREE locations--but I suppose I'm racist to point out your numbers are wrong :)

i.e., I agree with you.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
78. Two former ACORN workers.
If I walk into an IKEA and ask a saleman how to commit insurance fraud, and he tells me, that's really got nothing to do with IKEA.

"Only someone who hates black people could believe such nonsense or even pay any attention to it."

Pretty much. This business has nothing to do with ACORN, it's targeted anti-Obama nonsense. And we all know about those anti-Obama nuts.

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mariawr Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #24
95. It got funding pulled from them. Unfairly. nt
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kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Maybe not here on DU but 87 US Senators voted to strip funding
for ACORN. They at least have a political problem.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. The GOP tacked it onto a bill
funding HUD and Transportation...
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kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. That's the one - majority of Democratic Senators voted to strip
the funding. ACORN is politically toxic right now.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. DUPE
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 03:03 PM by Rick Myers
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Of course it's BS...
...unfortunately it is extremely effective.

I have to say, it becomes harder to defend an organization when three different sets of people in three different offices are apparently only too willing to aid and abet someone who openly states they are engaging in child prostitution. Now of course that was added into the performance just so they could exploit people's gut reaction to this issue. And we'll probably never see the unedited tapes, nor the tapes where they tried this stunt and failed.

But the damage has been done. Congress has already cut their funding, because for politicians, when it comes to issues like this it is a third rail. ACORN is damaged. I sincerely hope they can recover.

Now no large organization has complete control of all its employees. I'm sure if you had hidden cameras in offices of the police, the judges, the politicians, even private industry -- you could come up with equally shocking and outrageous videos. But once the video is released, all nice and edited for maximum impact, it is very difficult if not impossible to un-ring that bell.

This is bad.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
55. Really?
I'm sure if you had hidden cameras in offices of the police, the judges, the politicians, even private industry -- you could come up with equally shocking and outrageous videos.

I doubt it would be as easy as it was in this case, but I don't know for sure. If that we true, given the number of people that would love to demonstrate that a particular police office/judge/politician etc. is corrupt, I would expect to see these kind of videos coming out all the time. We don't though, at least not something as brazen as people willing to help setup a prostitution house full of underage illegal immigrants.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #55
68. Yes, really...
...we already know there are plenty of corrupt cops, judges and politicians. Just off the top of my head: there was that small town in Texas where so many black residents were sent off to jail on false testimony, we know the cops were in on it; there was the case of 2 judges who had a stake in a private jail, who sent scores of teens there and were bribed to do so; politicians, let's see, there are politicians caught with prostitutes, money in the freezer, need I go on? And private industry: Blackwater who actually procured the services of child prostitutes, not to mention various cases where they murdered Iraqui citizens without provocation; there are bribes and price fixing, you name it.

Why have we not seen more videos of such behavior? Well we've seen plenty of videos of police brutality, and none of that was due to active entrapment, like the case we're talking about. I can't comment on why we don't see more videos. I suspect we will, though. In fact, every since the President of Peru was ousted due to such a video, I've been surprised we don't see more of that sort of thing.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Ding ding
We have a winner.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. Amen, my brother.....
I can't even go into ACORN threads.....The naivety is shocking.


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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Don't believe for a second that white folks would try to setup an organization...
that helps a lot of black folks. Not for a second.

Clearly they're oversensitive, and the only thing to do is wait for all of the facts to come in. Can't rush to judgment. They must be given the benefit of the doubt. Innocent until proven guilty*.

(Am I missing any stock lines?)


* (unless you're OJ or MJ)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I also refuse to believe that it has anything to do with the get out the vote
efforts in poor communities. :sarcasm:

Nope... nothing to see here! :yoiks:
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. Absolutely it does - look what they did in Orange County Florida-
Democrats now have 80,000 more registered voters than Republicans - a huge registration advantage and a large portion of that is due to ACORN registering blacks in poor communities.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Indeed.
:( I hope you noted the sarcasm in my post?
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. my bad - sorry.. I thought you were serious..
:)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. No big.
:hi:
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
74. again, with the deflection
assuming arguendo that the investigators were against ACORN for all these nefarious reasons? so what!

the issue is that ACORN is chock full of child whore enabling asshats!

if it took some rightwing assmunches to expose that, then good for them.

sunlight - best - disinfectant

bring this scum into the light.

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. Oh bullshit.
As IF there is an abundance of child prostitution rings that seek advice from ACORN. Give me a frikken break!

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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. that's not the point and you know it
the point is that if these people are so phenomenally unethical (and scummy) that they would help (rather cavalierly i might add) a frigging child sex trafficker in evading the law, offering all sorts of nifty and creative advice in how to evade detection, cheat on taxes, file false documents, etc. then they are CORRUPT AS HELL.

that as extreme an example as a child sex trafficker would get help makes it quite obvious that scores of lesser scum would also find help amongst the ACORN scuminati.

that's the point.

the apologists are just getting less and less logical and more and more desperate as the evidence becomes more and more overwhelming.

and as somebody who worked for quite some time undercover (mostly without a wire or video, but i did use those devices maybe a couple of dozen times), there are few videos (or more correctly, collections of videos) i have ever seen that so clearly exposes "scum on tape"

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. The heck is isn't. When you propagate the "sunshine is the best disinfectant"
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 10:23 PM by mzmolly
talking point, it seems to me you should focus on actual vermin. ACORN does much good in the communities they represent. So, why go after them? What's the motive? What information did the filmmakers have prompting them to "investigate" ???

The fact that it took several attempts at several offices for the the faux pimp and his partner in crime to get any dirt on ACORN, tells me that it's not an organizational issue. As I've noted the same kind of sad advice would likely have been given at many (for profit) tax prep agencies.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. sunshine is the best disinfectant is not a "talking point"
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 10:28 PM by paulsby
but that's a bunny path i don't feel like hopping down with an ideologue.

i am focusing on actual vermin, fwiw. they are right there on tape. cavalierly offering help to a child sex trafficker...

i am well aware that ACORN has done much good.

you are going to do this "several attempts" thing again?

the fact that not EVERY ACORN office was willing to aid child sex traffickers is hardly much of a positive.

they've exposed 4 already.

one would be bad enough.

4 is ridiculous. if your standard for scumminess is that every ACORN office would have had to help them for it to be an organizational issue, then you have an absurd standard.

if an undercover investigation revealed that 1 out of 4 police officers in a police dept. were willing to plant evidence on a suspect would that make it ok? only 1 in 4 were corrupt criminal scum...

it's more damning by faint praise.

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. There are vermin in every corporation in America.
So again, why the focus on ACORN? As to your assertion that they "exposed" four, I disagree. How many ACORN employees refused to go along? How many reported them to police? What did the video capture that we did not see?

You are too quick to assume...
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Get a grip!
Stock line #50-11.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm just a little confused...so why would a pimp and a ho want a mortgage?
Thinking long term here?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. You'd have to be dumber than a sack of hammers to believe their story
They managed to find three offices with people that dumb.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. People who ACORN tried to help
unfortunately.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Doesn't answer the question.
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 02:57 PM by YOY
I mean are pimps and hos really looking for the long term investment? The whole thing makes zero sense. Stupid on both sides on so many levels.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
60. That was the point
They wanted to setup a situation so completely ridiculous and so unabashedly illegal as to demonstrate a total lack of scruples within ACORN.

Unfortunately they succeeded.
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lewiston Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
62. They wanted the house
to set up a brothel. An investment, but probably not long term.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. So why not just get a rent?
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 04:01 PM by YOY
Even short term it doesn't make sense. Mobility is key.

We had a pimp and whores in our hood. They rented and the real owner was oblivious. Finally they got raided and he suffered incredibly financially. Not exactly the classiest of operations.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
65. I support ACORN as an organization...
...but what the ACORN employees did was beyond dumb, it displayed a shocking lack of basic decency. Hence the uproar. Those operatives who did the video taping are scum, but I'll give them one thing: they know their business and they did it very well.


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mariawr Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
96. Typical Faux Noise viewer n/t
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Maybe they wanted to own their own House of Ill Repute?
Pride of ownership, and all...

A little dream castle
With every dream gone
Is lonely and silent
The shades are all drawn
And my heart is heavy
As I gaze upon
A cottage for sale

The lawn we were proud of
Is waving in hay
A beautiful garden
Has withered away
Where you planted roses
The weeds seem to say
A cottage for sale

From every single window
I see your face
But when I reach the window
There's empty space

The key's in the mailbox
The same as before
But no one is waiting
For me anymore
The end of our story
Is there on the door
A cottage for sale...

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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. It is against the law in Maryland to tape someone without their permission.
As was brought up numerous times in the Monica Lewinsky / Lind Tripp fiasco.

And there are many people here willing to throw ACORN under the bus because of the actions of a couple of minimum wage employees.

You could do exactly the same thing to:

Walmart
Fox News
The Republican Party
The federal government
IBM
Microsoft
etc.
etc.
etc.
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yawnmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I believe any prosecution of that will fail...
as I believe that freedom of the press will trump the maryland laws.
One can probably dig up some maryland cases showing (or not) that my belief is valid.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. good luck on that theory.. see you in the Supreme Court.
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yawnmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. If I have time later to look at Maryland cases and their verdicts, I'll reply again. eom
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
41. Good luck finding those cases.
Under Maryland’s Wiretapping and Electronic Surveillance Act, it is unlawful to tape record a conversation without the permission of all the parties. See Bodoy v. North Arundel Hosp., 945 F.Supp. 890 (D. Md. 1996). Additionally, recording with criminal or tortuous purpose is illegal, regardless of consent. Md. Code Ann., Cts. & Jud. Proc. § 10-402.

Disclosing the contents of intercepted communications with reason to know they were obtained unlawfully is a crime as well.

Violations of the law are felonies punishable by imprisonment for not more than five years and a fine of not more than $10,000. Civil liability for violations can include the greater of actual damages, $100 a day for each day of violation or $1,000, along with punitive damages, attorney fees and litigation costs. To recover civil damages, however, a plaintiff must prove that the defendant knew it was illegal to tape the communication without consent from all participants. MD. Code Ann., Cts. & Jud. Proc. § 10-410.

State courts have interpreted the laws to protect communications only when the parties have a reasonable expectation of privacy, and thus, where a person in a private apartment was speaking so loudly that residents of an adjoining apartment could hear without any sound enhancing device, recording without the speaker’s consent did not violate the wiretapping law. Malpas v. Maryland, 695 A.2d 588 (Md. Ct. Spec. App. 1997); see also Benford v. American Broadcasting Co., 649 F. Supp. 9 (D. Md. 1986) (salesman’s presentation in stranger’s home not assumed to carry expectation of privacy).

The Court of Special Appeals of Maryland held that because states are at liberty to adopt more restrictive provisions than those contained in federal law, the secretary-treasurer of a local union who recorded conversations between himself and management representatives could still be prosecuted under the state statute, even if his conduct was arguably protected under the National Labor Relations Act. Petric v. State, 504 A.2d 1168 (Md. Ct. Spec. App. 1986).

It is a misdemeanor to use a hidden camera in a bathroom or dressing room. It is also a misdemeanor to use a hidden camera on private property “for purposes of conducting deliberate, surreptitious observation of a person inside the private residence,” or in a private place with “prurient intent.” Md. Crim. Law §§ 3-901, -902, -903. A person who is viewed in violation of these statutes has a civil cause of action. The court may award actual damages and reasonable attorney fees. A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding one year or a fine not exceeding $2,500 or both.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Sorry, you lose.
already been tried, settled case law.

Freedom of the press does not give a member of the press license to break laws.

The ends do not justify the means.

It won't get prosecuted because ACORN is unlikely to press charges, though I hope I'm wrong. I hope the ACORN employees sue the shit out of those clowns and win a multi-million dollar settlement.
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kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. Do you have a cite for this? I've been looking with no luck
to see if there is a MD case on point. Interesting arguments could be made on both sides.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I remember it from the Linda Tripp case
She taped Monica without Monica's permission in Maryland.

It was all over the news at the time.

Various lawyer types opined that Monica could sue and win. They cited case law.

But I don't have it off the top of my head.
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kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. Right but Linda Tripp was not a "member of the press" conducting
"investigative journalism" (in quotes because those facts are in dispute) If they were to be deemed members of the press getting a story then there would be interesting constitutional issues that, so far as I know, have not been raised in MD courts.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Uh, these "Producers" were HARDLY members of any sort of
official or unofficial press corps.

They would have a hard time getting that status granted to them.
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kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. That's why I put it in quotes and added an explanation. nt
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
66. James O'Keefe's title is simply, "activist filmmaker".
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 04:41 PM by gatorboy
http://biggovernment.com/author/jokeefe/

and Hannah Giles is an "aspiring journalist".

http://townhall.com/columnists/HannahGiles

They have no real journalism credentials. Only the ignorant would dispute this. In the same way that dinosaurs hung out with Moses is disputable.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. Directly from the Maryland Judiciary site.
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 03:31 PM by gatorboy
www.courts.state.md.us/journalistguide2003.pdf

The law prohibits the use of a mechanical device, such as a
tape recorder or wiretap, to intercept or divulge the contents
of a wire or electronic communication, or a mere private,
oral conversation. Law enforcement agencies may bypass
the law under certain statutory circumstances or with a
court order. However, a journalist wishing to tape a
telephone conversation must obtain the consent of all
parties to the conversation. For legal protection later,
obtain consent in writing in advance if possible, or if you
record routinely, at least confirm consent orally once
recording has begun. Federal Communications
Commission regulations require any broadcaster to obtain
consent before taping or broadcasting a person. However,
under Maryland law and FCC regulations, consent to taping
or broadcasting may be implied, such as speaking in the
presence of a microphone or calling into a live talk show.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:35 PM
Original message
Thank you for finding that and posting it.
Seems pretty straight forward to me.
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kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. I know the law - has it been challenged on constitutional grounds
yet? The state can pass a law saying left handed people cannot vote and until challenge and overturned by the courts would be a "valid" law. The real question is what type of scrutiny the courts will find is due. Compelling state interest? Maybe.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. Has it?
You know the law. You should know these things. :) Though I gather if there was such a case, you would have posted it by now.
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kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #59
80. That's my point - is has not (as far as I can tell) been challenged on
1st amendment grounds in MD and survived that challenge. It is certainly possible (maybe even probable) that the MD law would survive said challenge.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
46. As long as we're playing make believe.
I'll take 5 unicorns, please!
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
26. I hope the employees who didn't fall for it get their fair share of air time
If ACORN has a PR department, then someone should be looking into getting these workers on camera ASAP.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
29. You are right!!!!!!! Only 37 % will help whore out a child!!!!!
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 03:06 PM by woo me with science
Only 37 % will help whore out a child!!!!!That is not very high AT ALL!

People are being MEAN to them!!!!!!!

:headbang: :yourock: :yourock:
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #29
45. You have NO idea how many offices they actually went to.
Acorn has far more than the listed offices so nice try but no cigar.

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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. I AGREE with you!!!!!!!!!
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 03:34 PM by woo me with science
Probably they went to EVERY SINGLE OFFICE!!!!!!!!!!! Probably they didn't say the names of them because they didn't want to BRAG!!!!!!!



IT is so MEAN to be MAD at THEM!!!!!!!!

You are doing GREAT! Keep spreading the word and I will too!!!!!!!!

:headbang: :yourock: :yourock: :fistbump:
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #51
75. Your posts are ever so constructive!!!!!
:headbang: :yourock: :yourock: :fistbump:
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Puzzler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
33. Just asking... but couldn't some of the "exposed" ACORN employees be in cahoots...
... with the so-called reporters? It wouldn't be that difficult to do.
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Again I don't know why real reporters aren't going after this story
finding these people caught on tape and asking them some hard questions. But apparently they are being left alone?

Bryant
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mariawr Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #33
97. This is edited tape and we don't know the whole of it....
But they viciously slimed Rev. Wright with only 10 seconds of tape--- ignoring the 50 years of service to his community.
Faux Noise won the right to legally lie (Florida courts) a few years ago.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
44. who payed for all those coast-to-coast flights?
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. cui buono...
that's an excellent point.
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
54. He is 25. She is 20
Where did they get funding for all this traveling?
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
61. kick for truth...
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
67. Acorn is not run like corporation. Workers are not the sharpest tools in the drawer.
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 04:47 PM by kickysnana
I believe they do great work with slim resources and give chances to people who might not otherwise be employed or have a shot at housing.

My last encounter was in 2003 when I was trying to get an assumable consolidation loan for a house I was buying on contract for deed. We used home equity to get the kids through college. The mortgage plus the consolidation loan was less than half of what it was worth and we were trying to pull another $10k for much needed repairs. My son and his wife were interested in buying it but they had just graduated and had only been working weeks when I started the process. A year later they got a bank loan. We went through three applications submitting the same 5 inch stack of bank statements, check stubs and other documents and nothing happened. ACORN people, application specialist and his supervisor could not tell us why nothing happened. It was not denied by the lender, it just never went anywhere just allowed to expire. We were going for a low fixed rate mortgage when liars mortgages were being granted right and left. I believe they were working with three different lenders but the loan we wanted was only offered through Country Wide.

Offices had cast off fixtures and furniture. Many employees had infants in their offices.

What they filmed was awful but it is not the ACORN organization that was at fault just a couple of really dumb employees. Perhaps they were humoring them to get rid of them, I haven't seen the unedited tape.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
69. I am really bothered about how quickly they were stripped of funding....I mean seriously..
do we now strip our senators and congressman and the media as well of all extra spending simply because of the fact that Americans have been proven to have raped tortured and murdered?

Where was the trial? I had not heard? Obviously when someone is found guilty of a crime and they work for you then you yourself are guility..the soldiers that were found guilty worked for our government..and such a heinous crime they committed...

Facts and hypocrisy be damned..something is seriously wrong with this country...acorn has helped many and done valuable services for people that would have otherwise never gotten help...

Perhaps that is the problem..we all know how repubs hate giving money to those in need when they could so easily give out to corps so they can continue to make payments on their yachts and keep their mansions from foreclousre..

pathetic...
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
70. for pete's sake, you can't even get the headline factually correct
they DID NOT fail in NY. they just recently released the tapes. they keep trickling them out, which leads to the following hilarity from the apologists...

day 1: "well, it was just 1 office. it's isolated"
next: "ok, now it's a couple of offices but look they went to a bunch of offices that DIDN'T go for facilitating child prostitution, like NYC etc/"
next: "oh. NY went for it as well?"

etc.

they keep trickling out these tapes one by one and making the apologists look foolish.

and assume arguendo that they went to 20 offices, and 4 (#'s are a pure wild assed speculation) agreed to help them.

wow, that's a really compelling thing to say about ACORN. "well, we're not TOTALLY corrupt, a strong majority of our employees aren't helping people run child prostitution rings"

wow, talk about damning by faint praise
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #70
91. Okay. I'm bookmarking this thread because when this is sorted out
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 12:48 AM by EFerrari
it won't be ACORN's defenders who look foolish. It will be the people who fell for yet another bullshit story about ACORN a la Charlie Brown and the football, for the jillionth time.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
77. More on James O'Keefe
Also affiliated with the Leadership Institute:

http://www.yuricareport.com/GOPorganizations/MyRightWingDegreeFromLeadershipInsti.html

The Rutgers Centurion is a conservative monthly that got off the ground this fall with institute help. Rutgers student James O'Keefe founded the magazine after coming across a conservative publication at Tufts. "I said, why don't we have this?" O'Keefe remembers. He taught himself a page-layout program and got in touch with the Leadership Institute, which dispatched a staffer to take him and his coeditors to dinner at an upscale local brewery. The institute gave O'Keefe books on starting a publication, awarded him a $500 "Balance in Media Grant," and suggested never-fail places on campus to ferret out liberal excess. "They were really excited," O'Keefe recalls.

The Rutgers Centurion has since analyzed faculty campaign contributions that favored John Kerry over George W. Bush 104 times over, and it accused one of Rutgers' most esteemed alumni, African-American author and actor Paul Robeson, of being a Stalinist. The magazine has published poetry about abortion from a fetus's point of view and run allegations of prejudice against Condoleezza Rice, "The Black Woman Liberals Love to Hate."


On looking a bit more, found this:
http://www.cpac.org/agenda_30207.html
Conservative Victories with New Media
Empire Ballroom
John Ziegler, KFI
Matt Sheffield, NewsBusters.org/Media Research Center
Erick Erickson, RedState.org
James O'Keefe, The Leadership Institute
David All, David All Group
Moderator: Rob Bluey, The Heritage Foundation


So, that would be the panel he was on. I'd venture since he was there the day, he went to some of the other sessions, hosted by quite the gallery of RW'ers, including:
Malkin, Cornyn, Coulter, Oliver North, Liddy and on and on.


Guess who was in the audience for the panel O'Keefe was on: None other than Jeff Gannon.

http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/03/blogging_to_vic.php

Pushed back to half and hour due to the crush to see Rudy Giuliani’s speech in the main convention hall, Townhall VP Chuck DeFeo kicked off CPAC’s “Conservative Victories with New Media” panel by introducing the Heritage Foundation’s Rob Bluey who asked each panel member to share their new media conservative victories.

~snip~

James O’Keefe promoted the Leadership Institute’s mission of helping students start their own conservative newspapers nationwide. For his new media angle, O’Keefe told how we captured his satirical yet successful effort to ban Lucky Charms at Rutgers dining halls on YouTube.

NewsBusters.org Matthew Sheffield recounted his role in starting the RatherBiased blog that eventually helped dethrone CBS anchor Dan Rather by exposing flaws in 60 Minutes National Guard/Pres. Bush story.

~snip~

Jeff Gannon was the next audience member to address the panel, and he wanted to know if the panel was concerned about liberal control of new media hubs like YouTube and Google, specifically citing YouTube’s pulling of a Michelle Malkin video criticizing Islam.



This guy has been training for years with smear campaigners.

I wonder who's funding him now?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #77
88. Very interesting.
Thanks. :hi: Jeff Gannon pops up in interesting places, that's for sure.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #88
98. And O'Keefe being on the panel with Sheffield, who smeared Dan Rather
Wonder if Sheffield gave O'Keefe pointers on how he smeared Rather and Mapes.

And remember, the media tore apart Rather and Mapes about the memo, while continuing to ignore the truth about the larger story:
http://mediamatters.org/columns/200709250005


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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
79. Why didn't ACORN launch immediate ethics training for all employees?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #79
90. Because training their employees won't improve RW ethics?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #90
92. You're turning a blind eye to apparent systemic problems in ACORN's hiring/training practices?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #92
93. Nope. I'm refusing the bullshit RW narrative.
You should try it sometime. It's very liberating.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #93
99. Doesn't change the FACT that at least two ACORN offices offered unethical (illegal?) advice.
It's on video for crying out loud!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #99
101. Did you know that for years the Zapruder film was used to support the Warren Commission
when what is showed directly contradicted those findings?

In the context of every single ACORN scandal so far turning out to be bullshit, are you that sure you have the whole story?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. We have the words of the ACORN worker on tape.
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Drix Donating Member (232 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. Words on tape is no indication of guilt.
Just ask John Delorean.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. uhh...yeah...right
:eyes:
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Drix Donating Member (232 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #104
105. You got that right. Innocent until proven guilty.
Hidden, edited video from political activists with an ax to grind. I'm confident the most telling information is on the editing room floor. This is not some objective news organization gathering news. I reserve judgment until I have all the facts. Not just the ones RW operatives are spoon feeding at any given time.
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olddixiedem Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
84. I hate to admin it but
With the 2010 elections coming up and all the other problems we're facing, is this really the time to have a thorn in the side like ACORN out there giving us bad publicity?

It's time to move away from and admonish groups like that!

We need to be focused on the long term party plans over the next 7 years, not downplaying bad PR ever few months.
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mariawr Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
94. Faux edited the tapes..just like Wright's...
... the whole thing sounds exactly like their made for Faux Viewers conspiracy plots. It's just too damn
stupid (a pros and a pimp--PLEASE) plays right into stereotypes and baser instincts.

This is a vile attempt to silence an organization connected to the president, to portray it as vile, when it really does do good things and services for its community (which is more than I can say for our sitting congresscritters).
FOx did that with Rev. Wright...or have you forgotten that one?
The Rev is a good man, done much for his congregation and community.
But the way that man's name was reviled, he was made out to be such an ANGRY BLACK MAN. And he in no way deserved it.
I listened to his sermons. They had a clear message of dealing with bad things and turning them around for good.
The Rev threw himself under the bus because of Obama. Rev's doing OK, but now, what do you think of when you hear his name?
Same thing for Acorn. Acorn helps the poor to vote. Do you get it?


Wake up, people. You should know this story by now.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
100. The San Diego office hit may not have failed
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 04:03 PM by slackmaster
I heard that Sean Hannity will be running a tape of it tonight. The office is within a few miles of my home. I drive by it often.
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