A Safe Substitute for Alcohol?

[davidswanson]

The U.S. Department of Justice says that alcohol plays a pivotal role in two-thirds of all cases of violence against an intimate (a spouse, boyfriend, girlfriend), and blames alcohol for contributing to 100,000 sexual assaults against young people every year. That's right, alcohol hurts more people than al Qaeda.

Of course, alcohol does not always lead every consumer of it to violence. Most people who drink alcohol don't hurt anyone. But a large percentage of those who do get violent have been drinking alcohol. Should we ban it? We tried that once with miserable results, and we've banned other substances with equally bad outcomes.

We could stop promoting alcohol so heavily, but the impact of doing so would probably not be large. What to do? Well, what if there were a substitute for alcohol that didn't make anyone violent? What if this substitute were far less dangerous than alcohol to the health of the person using it, as well as to those around him or her? What if this alternative substance even had health benefits and medicinal properties and potentials? What if this substance satisfied the desire for intoxication without actually containing anything toxic, and you woke up the next morning without a hangover? What if this magical substitute for alcohol could boost the economy, free prisoners, reduce prison budgets, free up police to address serious crimes, and subtly improve our culture if only we could discover what it was?

The common name for this life-saving drug is marijuana, and in "Marijuana Is Safer: So Why Are We Driving People to Drink?" the authors Steve Fox, Paul Armentano, and Mason Tvert argue for legalizing marijuana as a regulated substitute to reduce the societal damage done by alcohol. In the book's foreword, Norm Stamper, former Chief of the Seattle Police Department, writes:

"I've been asking police officers throughout the U.S. (and Canada) two questions. First: 'When's the last time you had to fight someone under the influence of marijuana?' (And by this I mean marijuana only, not pot plus a six-pack or fifth of tequila.) My colleagues pause; they reflect. Their eyes widen as they realize that in their five or fifteen or thirty years on the job they have never had to fight a marijuana user. I then ask, 'When's the last time you had to fight a drunk?' They look at their watches. It's telling that the booze question is answered in terms of hours, not days or weeks."

The case for making pot more available to those who might choose it over alcohol seems straightforward. Unless, of course, you've heard any of the pervasive myths that have been spread about it in this country for nearly a century. In 1927, lacking any Iraqi aluminum tubes to peddle yet, the New York Times published this fantasy:

"Mexican Family Go Insane
"Five Said to Have Been Stricken By Eating Marihuana
"A widow and her four children have been driven insane by eating the Marihuana plant, according to doctors, who say there is no hope of saving the children's lives and that the mother will be insane for the rest of her life…."

This is not terribly different from the stories promoted by our government today, and much of the book is devoted to debunking myths. While television networks are not required to give back even a smidgen of our airwaves for political campaigns or information, they have been required to air anti-pot propaganda, or to incorporate it into the plots of shows (such as "ER" and "Beverly Hills 90210"). In 2005, the Government Accountability Office determined that the government's anti-pot campaign had violated the law against covert propaganda by producing video news releases that news programs aired as if they had been created completely independently of the government.

When Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps was shown in a photograph using marijuana, both USA Swimming and the US Olympic Committee came down hard on him, just as the NFL does to its players. These are all organizations that live off massive funding from the makers of alcohol. So, incidentally, do members of Congress. It's a good thing THEY are never influenced by money.

David Swanson is the author of the new book "Daybreak: Undoing the Imperial Presidency and Forming a More Perfect Union" by Seven Stories Press. You can order it and find out when tour will be in your town: http://davidswanson.org/book

[TxRider]

1. What, use common sense policy? How un American!

:sarcasm:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

35. common sense is rarely common, especially in public policy disputes.

[Dennis Donovan]

2. Recommended - the prohibition needs to end...

...kill it as dead as Harry Anslinger and William Randolph Hearst (two of the original proponents of cannabis prohibition).

[SammyWinstonJack]

4. +1 nt

[wtbymark]

10. and don't forget Maurice DuPont

[saigon68]

32. They were racists both of them

[SteppingRazor]

3. Or, the government could just stop telling people what they can or can't put in their own bodies.

Period.

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. Yeah!

:thumbsup:

[Boxerfan]

6. Booze almost killed me...Not a drop for 14 years...Always kept my bong

And my personal Dr. at the time said I don't care what the hell you are doing-keep it up.

Luckilly I live in a state that allows Medical use for pain & I more than qualify.Kneck damage & pinched nerves.Whatever-I would have kept using legal or not.It is a medicine for me plain & simple.

Sadly when I needed help with Booze I was denied entry into any program unless I also quit my sacred herb.

I think I made the right choice. From a homeless alchoholic to a Dad with a mortgage & my own small machine shop.

One of these days it shall be laughing at how stupid we were about nature & her miracles. At least I hope so...

[rhett o rick]

11. Mankind has been fighting nature forever. "When will we ever learn.."

"One of these days it shall be laughing at how stupid we were about nature & her miracles." I don't think there is a chance. In the future man will be lost to memory as were the bizillion other species that tried and failed.

[The Wizard]

30. Mankind fighting nature

is the central theme in Moby Dick. That Melville guy knew something.
He also talks in metaphor about unfettered predatory capitalism destroying itself, but that's another issue. It was published around the same time as Das Kapital. Must have been the Zeitgeist.

[CTyankee]

7. We have the wrong idea about alchohol entirely. Look at the Europeans and their use of wine.

Wine is absolutely essential to the cuisine of France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece. It's pretty much sacred. It's on every table lunch and dinner. It's in cafes and drunk at all times of the day and evening in those countries. There are little bars and cafes on every corner in Madrid, Rome, Lisbon, and probably Athens (altho I haven't been in that country yet).

It's part of their food system. They drink in moderation and it's beneficial. They eat fresh food and take their time eating. They eat communally.

Think of it. What do we do at mealtime here? How do we view alcohol here?

I have no problem legalizing pot. But we need to know how to drink like the Europeans do. It's civilized....

[imdjh]

51. Do you honestly believe that?

[CTyankee]

60. Why shouldn't I believe it? I've been there. I've seen it.

I don't want to misread your post. If you asked if I believed that we Americans COULD drink like Europeans, then I would have to say I don't know but it would be great to find out.

But my experience in Europe is that the vast majority of people in those countries simply don't have our hangups, and thus our problems, with alcohol. And I must exclude the British Isles here because I haven't visited there for many years. But I DO go to mainland Europe every year and have witnessed how people in the large cities, small towns and farms habitually drink. My post was based on those observations.

[wtbymark]

8. geez, I was going to be a smart ass

by saying 'pot' because I assumed that the article would be about some new pharma crap.
Cripey me, what a stoner move :banghead:

[sybylla]

9. IMHO, alcohol problems have always been the symptom, not the disease.

You can ban it, but the disease remains and other avenues of easing it, living with it, or avoiding dealing with it will come to the fore in a way that is likely as devastating or worse to families, friends, co-workers, neighbors and communities.

[sam sarrha]

14. i dont have the link, but 1 in 8 people become addicted at some level on their 1st drink. alcohol is

the problem in many situations.. our cultures lack of belief in learning is the worst.. parenting education is Abysmal. Feral children grow up to be real problems.. i was a juvenile parole officer

[sybylla]

36. I'd be skeptical of any study

that thought it could effectively separate out the psychological components of addition from the physical components of addiction on one drink.

That isn't to say I have no empathy or understanding of alcohol and what it does to families. Alcoholism and drug use are in my family. And I certainly believe there is a physically addictive component to alcohol for many people. I could even believe there is a small subset of people whose body chemistry makes them extremely succeptable to physical addition to many substances. But I can't buy 1 in 8.

Regardless, I'm a believer in Mark Twain's philosophy, "Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak because a baby can't chew."

Education, treatment, and family support systems are the only real solutions. I'd prefer to see the focus on making those better. I also think we need to get more aggressive about getting children out of homes where drugs, alcohol, neglect or abuse are problems (an issue which happened in my family in which child welfare chose to do nothing). Until we do, we'll never break the cycle.

[charlie]

12. Everybody who's been to live concerts

before and after St Ronnie and his New Prohibition will remember how shows went from gatherings of red-eyed out-of-it stoners to drunken melees of fireworks, fistfights, and vomit in the aisles. That illustrates it pretty plainly, I think.

The worst part of it, is that there isn't anyone in Congress or the Executive branch who hasn't had a taste. The hypocritical fuckers know that weed makes you drive like a nervous grandma or spend an afternoon plumbing new depths in a song you've heard 10,000 times before, instead of punching your buddy for looking at your girlfriend. Yet, cocktails at the White House are still high-toned affairs, and the societal costs of alcohol are off loaded onto the rest of us ("Designated driver.", "Friends don't let friends drive drunk.", "Take away the keys").

[sam sarrha]

15. my brother the Police Captain said weed was over rated as a problem, stoners stayed home watching TV

without the sound on listening to music eating a bag of potato chips.. not out raising hell hurting people.

[charlie]

17. Yep. He knows

But, who's gonna listen to him? He's not some glad-hander cadging for votes, he's just the guy who has to deal with the mess.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

20. I do believe Joe Biden

has never had a drink.

Near Beer at the White House get together with the Cop and Cambridge professor.
One of the talking heads on TV said Joe has never had a drink of alcohol.
FYI.

:hi:




I wish though marijuana would be legalized in US. I don't personally know any 'providers'.

[charlie]

21. Really?

I didn't know that. I was speaking of marijuana, though. I know I was overstating it, claiming everyone has had a toke, but enough of them have firsthand experience and KNOW prohibition is a travesty.

Still, I didn't know Joe was a teetotaler. That's interesting, thanks.

[Romulox]

46. Perhaps that's why he's such an enthusiastic Drug Warrior?

:shrug:

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

56. HTFSIK

[sam sarrha]

13. 4th major health hazard in the USA,... 28 yrs hard Alcoholic--- 10 yrs Sober, thanks to Pema Chodron

her tape set/book 'When Things Fall Apart' saved my life.. i have everything she has done, plus Insight Meditation's teachers, Jack Kornfield, Sharon Salzberg, also the Dali Lama, Robert Thurman.. thank you all....

[abq e streeter]

16. Beer vs. pot ......... Bill Hicks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1HtfQZXl6U

[HopeHoops]

18. Distilled water is pretty safe.

Can't get a DUI drinking it either!

[City of Mills]

19. Pot probably saved me from becoming an alcoholic

I was on my way, in my early 20's, just happened to smoke some pot after downing about 20 or so beers over the course of a party...can't say I remember much of the next day and a half, but after that decided to try it again without being drunk...I really liked the dissociative feeling without the side effect of a pounding headache and dizziness...plus I was really fascinated with the delicate, artistic lines of my own fingerprints for awhile, truly miraculous...later I would roll myself a joint, get lost in the woods and just look at stuff, listen to the wind and close my eyes, imagining millions of leaves bristling overhead as thousands of multicolored bugs crawled on and under the soft, yet firm ground underfoot...fun times.

Nowadays I go without and and pretty happy about it, but I did enjoy some of those spacey moments of reflection!

[cliffordu]

22. As a recovering alkie and a dope fiend I'll K&R this thread,

alcoholism and drug addiction are MEDICAL and psychiatric issues and should NOT be crimes in and of themselves.

Sending a drug addict to prison just ensures they will have an unending supply of really good dope.

Unless they're broke.

Legalizing and regulating the chronic would go a loooong way to emptying the prisons of all but the small percentage of dickheads that commit true crime.

[The Wizard]

31. Big pharma would lose profits

Reefer grows without much effort. It's a weed. That would be a drain on campaign coffers, and we can't have that.

[cliffordu]

42. Yep.

[LooseWilly]

23. Weed?, pfft... I'm holding out for legalized heroin

Until that vote comes up... I'm good with whiskey. Or rum. Or tequila. Or vodka. Or absinthe. Hell... I'll even drink gin over smoking weed.

I'm not sure why everyone seems to find vilifying alcohol (and it is a vile substance, for vile people... like me) so liberating... or why they think it somehow legitimizes peoples' desire to legalize marijuana.

Just go to Holland. Spend three days in Amsterdam... and the notion of legalizing marijuana, hasheesh, and even psilocybin mushrooms becomes one of those "sure, fine, just do it" issues...

[Jackpine Radical]

24. Sorry, pot is not a safe substitute for alcohol.

Every time you smoke a joint you run the risk of…something. I forget. What was I saying?

[alittlelark]

26. I knew what you were gonna say...but I forgot.

:smoke:

[Bluenorthwest]

33. You run the risk of doing jokes that have been done a billion times?

[Le Taz Hot]

34. LOL!

:applause:

[Jackpine Radical]

43. Quit laughing.

Order a pizza.

[femrap]

25. I would like some weed instead. nt

[slay]

27. Legalize it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOliq6BuhYE

[dreamnightwind]

28. Thanks

for your post. I like the somewhat novel approach of pot as an alcohol alternative. I mean, I'm sure it's not novel but I don't ever hear it expressed this way.

It's another one of those things that is so obvious, but that is so opposed to "conventional wisdom", it's insane, or rather conventional wisdom is insane.

It's pretty apparent, looking at our culture from a few steps back, that we're a bunch of aggressive, bullying, intolerant, curiosity-challenged, crude, uncaring, shallow, angry people. Alcohol fits in with all of that, pot is the antidote to these behaviors.

[timtom]

29. Before I opened up this thread, I read the subject line

and immediately said, "Marijuana!"

I quite agree! (Haven't smoked in over 20 years, but always remember it with a good deal of fondness...)

[nostalgicaboutmyfutr]

37. If you want a better world, legalize pot!! EOM

[ThomWV]

38. Comparing one intoxicant to another does not make either acceptable

How can cigarettes be bad for you when heroin is so much worse? Its the same argument and in neither case is it a good one.

[Fumesucker]

44. Pure heroin is remarkably benign physically..

The worst side effect, addiction aside, is constipation.

Alcohol is many times more damaging than heroin physically to those addicted.

[DinahMoeHum]

39. Legalize it, Regulate it, and Tax it . . . just like tobacco and alcohol

and we could fill state and federal coffers in short time.

Plus, it would put drug cartels out of business
and would free farmers to grow its cousin, HEMP, for food and textiles.

[mike_c]

40. this is a HUGE issue where I live (Humboldt County, CA)....

Here, the arguments against legalization run mostly to economic reasons why the local economy might be decimated by widespread production, since growing pot for the black market is the rock-solid backbone of the northern California economy. But no government propaganda or scare tactics hold any water here, where pot smoking is VERY common.

I smoke marijuana frequently-- currently daily-- and I'm a (presumably) respected professional scientist and educator. Many of my friends and colleagues do the same. I know a number of people who have sustained varying levels of physical and psychological damage due to alcohol use, and have seen more than a dozen households destroyed by alcoholism or alcohol fueled domestic violence during my life, but never anyone damaged by marijuana EXCEPT the damage done by law enforcement and the war on drugs.

I have liver disease-- the cause is unknown, although I have had numerous contacts with hepatic toxins throughout my professional life and am a former recreational drinker-- so I cannot safely drink alcohol any longer except possibly in small amounts, infrequently. My stress management drug of choice-- and self-medication is the stress management regime that has always worked best for me-- is good Humboldt bud, smoked as needed.

The prohibition against marijuana is absolutely senseless. It is time to stop that nonsense.

[pleah]

41. K& R

[mopinko]

45. as the child of an alcoholic, i believe this to be true. in my family

there are a couple kids who inherited a drinking problem, although not as bad as my dad. high functioning, and lucky to have a good life, with low stress. there are a couple who don't drink at all, even though they have battled with depression, and some tough luck. then there are a couple of us who have had shit-strewn lived, smoked pot, and been able to be well controlled social drinkers.
i concur that it is a safe alternative to alcohol.

[4_TN_TITANS]

47. I'd give up beer for pot in a heartbeat.

I could also flush the rest of my ritalin along with the booze.

[Prophet 451]

48. Legalise, regulate, tax

I still wouldn't smoke pot, I prefer the odd pint of real ale, but there's no good reason for it to be illegal.

[Uncle Joe]

49. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, davidswanson.:thumbsup:

[Left coast liberal]

50. I am with you.

I hope to see the day that getting some weed was as simple as getting a beer.

Not to mention all the medical benefits.

[monktonman]

52. found some weed in the street today...

was so happy I about pee'd myself.

[Cleita]

53. Some of my family have roots in Arizona and I remember when it was

against the law to sell alcohol to the Apache Native Americans for the same reason stated above. Eventually, it was deemed to be prejudicial to an ethnic minority and the ban was lifted. As an ex-bartender I have seen my share of alcohol related abuses, but they are in the minority and most people drink responsibly so to punish everyone for the actions of some seems a bit Draconian to me. Young people abuse alcohol more but most grow out of it, so they should be educated as to the proper way to use alcohol like children in Mediterranean countries are. Binge drinking, a popular college past time here in the USA is unacceptable behavior in those countries. I think abusing any mind altering substances leads to aberrant behavior. MJ shouldn't be consumed if you are going to operate heavy machinery just like alcohol and that means automobiles. It's not a solution. I work for a doctor who specializes in pain management and he prescribes medical cannabis if it's appropriate for the patient and he counsels about not using it when they are going to drive. He also limits the amount they are allowed on their medical certificate to what they need, not what they want. The real solution is not to drive when under the influence of any mind altering substance. I believe improving public transportation and making it cheap and available would solve this problem. About unleashing the anger that leads to spousal abuse and other abuses with those substances, those people need psychiatric counseling and should only receive medication under the watchful eye of a qualified doctor.

[JNelson6563]

54. K&R

:kick:

[sui generis]

55. flawed but not for the would-be obvious reason

If you are a violent dick on alcohol you'll be just as violent on smoke.

I'm not sure who the "we" in your question of whether "we" should ban alcohol is.

If you don't believe gay marriage don't get gay married. If you don't like alcohol, then don't go to a bar. If you don't believe in alcohol, then don't drink it.

[debbierlus]

57. They might giggle themselves to death!

Hey, I know, it almost happened to me!

[OwnedByFerrets]

58. K and R

[caseymoz]

59. Marijuana cannot be a "substitute" for alcohol.

They do different things, cover different neurotransmitter sites. The pharmacology is different. It's almost like you are saying substitute anti-depressants for people's blood pressure medication. Or instead of abusing cocaine, abuse caffeine.

My experience has been that at least some heavy drinkers use marijuana, too. If those drugs were actually functioning the same way, it would seem to me that one or the other would be sufficient. I've had one person tell me that for getting high they prefer alcohol to marijuana, and this is somebody who had as much access to one as the other, believe me.

Despite what they say about "getting high" there seems to be a different flavor to both highs.