Racism and classism go together

[Ardent15]

They are two sides of the same ugly coin.

[imdjh]

1. Sidhartha Gautama supposedly said that nations were nothing but castes on a larger scale.

[vixengrl]

2. Race war, class war, culture war--all often distractions.

Race war is just a subdivision of class war, the way I see it. It pits working class people against one another on the basis of race to compete for jobs... and keeps overhead down in the process. I think it's possible to see oneself as upperclass or elitist without being racist, but I also do think that classism can fuel racism in degrading--well, anytone.

[imdjh]

6. I think that if you could hear inside people's heads, it would be enlightening.

[Confusious]

3. So if I hate rich people

And think that they got that way because they gave someone else a knife in the back, I'm being racist?

[Honeycombe8]

4. Alec Baldwin? Obama? Buffett? Ted Kennedy? Swayze? You hate ALL rich people?

Michael Jordan? Tom Hanks?

You hate ALL rich people?

Paul McCartney? Bill Richardson? Bono? Brangelina? Denzel Washington?

You hate ALL rich people?

Ben Affleck? Jimmy Carter? Bill and Hillary? Bill Cosby?

You hate ALL of them? Absolutely ALL of them?

Keith Olberman? Chris Matthews? Rachel Maddow (soon to be rich)?

ALL of them?

I think some of them are okay.

[anonymous171]

10. They compromise only a fraction of the rich. The rest of them are absolute scum.

It really is that simple. They don't share our values and they definitely do not share our interests.

[Electric Monk]

27. -om

http://www.answers.com/compromise
http://www.answers.com/comprise

[Honeycombe8]

30. You are absolutely wrong. I've known scumbags who are poor, and good people

who are wealthy.

Money has nothing to do with a person's character.

In fact, for those who have worked hard to get their $, they have a stronger character and are often more reliable, ethical, and honest than some others.

Most wealthy people are professionals (went to school for many years, and went into debt big time to fund it, and worked very long hours for years to finish advanced schooling) and entrepreneurs (owning your own successful business requires way more hours than working for someone else).

Investors comprise a small percentage of wealthy. People who inherited their wealth (like Ted Kennedy) also comprise a small # of the wealthy, here in this country.

I've been burgled, purse snatched, been rude to, you name it. In all instances...they were poor people. A rich person is more likely to work for his $ than to steal it from you (although there ARE Bernie Madoffs in the world).

[ShortnFiery]

39. +1 The empathetic philanthropists are a distinct minority of the filthy rich. eom

[Hannah Bell]

13. it isn't about being "good" or "bad" as individuals.

[Honeycombe8]

31. Yes. $ has nothing to do with it. Most wealthy people in America worked for their $.

They didn't inherit it, like Ted Kennedy.

But even if they inherited it, it doesn't make them bad people. Sometimes, like Ted Kennedy, they know they have been blessed, and they try to give back to society.

[Hannah Bell]

36. "Most wealthy people in America worked for their $."

depends on your definition of "work".

[Honeycombe8]

44. I work for wealthy people. They work harder and longer than most poor people ever have.

The difference is that they get a bundle of $ at the end of it all.

You, like most people (incl. me) would not choose to work that long and hard in return for more money. For some, it is worth it.

I work very long hours, and I work very hard. But that's because I have to...it's not by choice. I get paid decently. But I'd gladly trade in all the overtime in return for working normal hours.

I'm on my way to New York, where I will be working 15 to 20 hour days. I will get paid a lot of overtime. Is it worth it? No. Do I have to do it? Yes. My bosses, by the way (wealthy lawyers), will be working the same long, hard hours. No one wants to do it. But we have to.

If you came into a chunk of money, you would see that your basic character would not change. You would still be you...only with more stuff.

Doesn't pay to be jealous of others or hate them for doing things you chose not to. I'm not that way at all. I chose not to finish college, go to law school, go to nursing school, etc. Too many years of schooling, long hours of studying and internship without sleep, tens of thousands of dollars of debt from student loans. So....I get by with less money for the easier path I chose. As I guess you do.

[Hannah Bell]

49. you know all about "rich people" from your experience with one "rich person",

& all about "poor people" fom your experience with - "most" of them?

people aren't paid in accordance with how long or hard they work, or else slaves, 1800s factory workers, & present day farm serfs would be rich.

& in any event, we all have only 24 hrs/d.

it has nothing to do with "jealousy". It has to do with murder, destruction of lives & communities.

your post is pablum from the propaganda store.

[earth mom]

47. Many of those rich people made their money by exploiting others.

Some rich people are ok, but the majority of them are nothing more than opportunists who exploited other people to get where they are.

[Confusious]

15. Do I hate all of them? no.

just the ones who give me a knife in the back. The ones that are neutral or give a hand up are OK.

I was giving a simplistic answer to a simplistic ( read: 3 grader could do better ) premise.

I thought most people could see that. I guess I was wrong.

[Honeycombe8]

32. A blanket "I hate rich people" is just another form of discrimination.

It's a generalization against a group of people because of what they have, not based on the individual. That's precisely what prejudice is.

I don't like it, whether it's "I hate black people" or "I hate women" or "I hate muslims" or "I hate poor people" or "I hate rich people."

Some Repubs hate poor people, labeling them all with the stereotype of being lazy good-for-nothings who want others to pay their way, instead of working hard themselves. That is prejudice. There ARE poor people like that. But people shouldn't be grouped together and labeled with a broad negative sweeping generalization. They are individuals.

Just my opinion.

[ShortnFiery]

38. No, you can't discriminate against RICH people - they will buy your competition off.

;) They have it all ... and most bloated rich people - share the least - due to GREED.

[Honeycombe8]

45. I feel sorry for you. Your jealousy of others will eat you alive, if you let it.

Instead of being jealous, go out and get a job that requires 8 years of schooling, or a specialized skill with a license. That way, you will get paid lots of money, and after years of working at it and paying back the loans....you will get rich.

Oh....too much work? Too hard?

Yeah. Those darn rich people. Someone just walked by and gave 'em a fistful of money for nothin'. Yeah, right.

They're just people like you and me who chose a different path. I chose the easier path by dropping out of college, failing at owning a deli, or doing anything requiring years of schooling or getting a technical degree or license. So....I work really long hours, and I get paid decently. But the tradeoff is I'll never be rich. No reason to be jealous of those who chose other paths that led to money.

[Hannah Bell]

50. Such god-awful sick bullshit.

[imdjh]

7. That works for you?

[Confusious]

17. I wa giving a simplistic answer

To a simplistic premise.

[imdjh]

8. the op says "go together" not "are the same" nt

[Confusious]

18. Go together.....

They are on the same coin, they go together, so if I do one, I must do the other.

So if I am classicist, say, hang out with blue-collar people, and don't like hanging out with rich, self-absorbed people, I must be racist too, because they go together.

hmmm....

P.S. Lets never mind that the OP and I are bastardizing the word.

[imdjh]

19. Well, he did say opposite sides of the same coin so I guess you're right.

But I think he meant that they are similar at the core- the "hate" of those not like you. I think he would meet a lot of resistance to that concept anyway, because some people seem to honestly believe that racism is based in nothing more than "the color of my skin" when in fact there is a lot more to it.

[Confusious]

20. There may be alot more to racism, then "color of skin"

But I think we can agree that the rest is not based on legitimate grievances.

WHEREAS, my "dislike" of the rich is based on 150 year of thing like child labor, Being locked into buildings and dying in a fire, Hired thugs to smash the skulls in of people wanting to unionize, supporting the enemy ( Bush Sr.'s daddy supporting the NAZIs), trying to overthrow the government during FDR, Bhopal, gaming the system to fuck the rest of us, "Only little people should pay taxes", etc, etc, etc.

Would you compare that to racism?

REALLY?

[imdjh]

23. damn you're old

[Confusious]

25. No,

I just refuse to be ignorant. I study history as a hobby. It doesn't take much to learn that that the "rich" have given the shaft to the poor and the middle class for most of history.

[Honeycombe8]

33. You are wrong, Grasshopper. Industry has done that. Not "rich people," per se.

Corporations, businesses, and industries worked people to death. Not "rich people." In fact, it was often middle class employees hired by those businesses who worked people to death. It was middle class entrepreneurs who locked women into sweat shops in NY to sew 15 hours a day. It wasn't "rich people."

What you describe is called discrimination. It is taking some negative examples of some bad people in the world, and extrapolating those traits out to fit a broad group of people, as an excuse to "hate." It could be extrapolating the stereotype of black people being lazy because you had those experiences a couple of times. Or of thinking all hispanics are illegal immigrants, because you run across so many who are, and therefore, they must all be. Or of thinking that all women are bad drivers, because (as one guy told me), that's just his observation (notwithstanding that insurance statistics show otherwise...doesn't matter...discrimination isn't based on logic and facts).

A person can be a very good person and be very wealthy. In fact, he can be a wonderful person because he has not become jaded by being hit hard with some of life's tribulations. He may have a good outlook on the world, on life, on people. And a poor person can be a very bad person...hating others because they have money, becoming jaded and negative because of life's tribulations, and just resenting those around him.

Whether a person is good or bad has nothing to do with $. It is how your parents raised you, and the lessons you learn from life on your own.

[Hannah Bell]

40. pious bs.

[Honeycombe8]

46. LOL! It always easier to attack the poster, when the facts can't be refuted.

Don't be jealous of others. You can hate them, though! Be glad about that! It's just that for your own mental health...it's best to hate others for something that that person actually did, rather than because of some trait, like being black or being rich, or both.

[Honeycombe8]

5. Hmmm. I'm not sure about that. I'll have to ponder that one. nt

[TCJ70]

9. I'm not sure about that, but...

...it is a safe bet just to live life realizing that there are good and bad people of every stripe.

[TannerBoyle]

11. That's the most indepth analysis I've ever read. Thank you.

[Lagomorph]

14. Truely stellar...

...fact finding and investigative information sharing.

[omega minimo]

16. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6573421

[Lagomorph]

22. Ahhhh, a thread with substance....

I've been listening to the vitriol for decades. It's meaningless. Worse than that, actually.

[espiral]

12. I'll give this a rec.

US-dwellers are loathe to admit the existence of the class war, even at a supposedly-progressive site like DU.

[Confusious]

21. and what happens when he says

trying to overthrow the Bourgeoisie is the same as racism, and supporting the proletariat is the same as racism, comrade?

[anonymous171]

24. Wut? nt

[Confusious]

26. Karl Marx

Communist Manifesto.

[imdjh]

28. are you cereal?

But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow

[KillCapitalism]

29. About time someone realized that.

The poor are all in the same boat & equally oppressed. It doesn't matter if they're Asian, Black, White, Hispanic, or Native American.

[nemo137]

34. On an abstract philosophical level, maybe.

But it's worse, in terms of everything from availability of jobs to earnings to life expectancy, to be poor and non-white.

[Hannah Bell]

41. not if the "non-white" = japanese-american, for example. their ses indicators =

higher than whites.

[KittyWampus]

42. Tell that to the people living in the Appalachians. Or the people living along coastlines that get

displaced by hurricanes and dwindling fish populations.

[blindpig]

35. Racism is the tool of classism

Racism permeates American society, it is so ubiquitous that many cannot see it, and is the primary roadblock to working class solidarity. Class in the United States cannot be addressed without addressing race.

[KittyWampus]

43. As is sexism and homophobia.

[ShortnFiery]

37. When you hit the multi-millionaire range there's only ONE color/race and it's GREEN.

The mean mean GREEN. :evilgrin:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

48. they are seperate thing though and one can exist without the other