In defense of ACORN (from Salon)

[fryguy]

Like so many conservative attacks, the crusade against ACORN has been highly exaggerated and even falsified to create a demonic image that bears little resemblance to the real organization. Working in the nation's poorest places, and hiring the people who live there, ACORN is not immune to the pathologies that can afflict institutions in those communities. As a large nonprofit handling many millions of dollars, it has suffered from mismanagement at the top as well -- although there is nothing unique in that, either.

<snip>

If only the Republicans who have worked up a frenzy over ACORN's alleged crimes were so indignant about real and damaging voter fraud -- such as the amazing case of Young Political Majors, the firm that ran GOP registration efforts in California, Massachusetts, Florida, Arizona and elsewhere before the authorities in Orange County, Calif., busted its president, Mark Anthony Jacoby, and sent him to jail last year. He had built a lucrative partisan career by teaching his minions to deceive thousands of voters into registering as Republicans rather than Democrats, among other scams. Of course, the only on-air mention of the Young Political Majors scandal on Fox News was made by blogger Brad Friedman -- and the national media, mainstream and conservative, generally ignored it. They were too busy generating "controversy" over ACORN.

<snip>

To claim that the stupid behavior of a half-dozen employees should discredit a national group with offices in more than 75 cities staffed by many thousands of employees and volunteers is like saying that Mark Sanford or John Ensign have discredited every Republican governor or senator.

<more>

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2009/09/18/acorn/index.html

[Voltaire]

1. We must ALL defend ACORN

If we let the GOP take it down, they will not stop there.

[Wizard777]

20. They're going to say how how dare you defend child prostitution.

To which our reply is, how dare you celebrate it. You are calling O'Keefe and Giles good guys and hero's for proposing to set up and operate a house of child prostitution. How morally depraved do you have to be to put the words Good Guys and Child Prostitution together in any capacity?

:wow:

The only thing that really troubles me about that approach is it somewhat parallels the racist defense of slavery. "We wouldn't have been buying if they weren't selling." So will the real bad guys please stand up. But at least the Republican would be sure to understand the point. We would be explaining it to them in their own language so to speak.

[Hello_Kitty]

37. Only if you think purely in either/or terms

It's possible to think O'Keefe is a cretin while also thinking ACORN needs to get its shit together.

[BlooInBloo]

2. republicans know that if they pick the right sort of organization, then Democrats will be on board..

with the attack on them

[redqueen]

5. Why?

Why would Dems be on the attack with them?

It just makes no sense to me...

[hfojvt]

14. because we are secretly racist

check out the melatonin on Pelosi and Reid.

[hadrons]

3. Excellent article

[strategery blunder]

4. In defense of ACORN

Congress effectively declared the organization guilty of crime without trial, and voted on extrajudicial punishment.

Bill of Attainder.

Unconstitutional.

What happened is for the judicial system to sort out, not for grandstanding politicians or right-wing nutjobs.

[notesdev]

6. If we're going to start going by the Constitution again

then the inconvenient truth is that there is no appropriation for purposes not explicitly listed in Article I, Section 8 that are Constitutional. All powers currently exercised by the federal government save those enumerated powers properly belong to the states, or to the people (as per the 10th Amendment).

So unless this group is delivering mail, coining money, part of the armed forces, or fulfilling a handful of other purposes listed there, appealing to the Constitution doesn't help.

There's a reason why 40+ Dem Senators and 170+ Dem Reps voted to de-fund ACORN. If people here take their blinders off one day, they will see what all those elected officials see, and what the rest of the country sees.

When Jay Leno and Jon Stewart are making fun of how corrupt you are, the game is over. The only question is how many people are going to be so stubborn as to go down with the ship when it sinks.

[strategery blunder]

7. Well, they were supposed to help with the 2010 census before this happened.

And they would have received funding for that.

Of course it's not like they'll be doing that anymore. :shrug:

[EFerrari]

8. So you are siding with the RW assholes over the progressives

that are standing with ACORN like Nadler, Wexler, McDermott, Wolsey, Whitehouse, etc?

Btw, pointing to the voting numbers only shows how profoundly corrupt i]Congress is. That vote doesn't reflect the law as you imply but Democrats racing in the direction of political expediency, just as they do nearly every time.

[notesdev]

9. I'm siding with the truth and what's right

Anyone who is not horrified by what they see on those tapes, and/or is under the delusion that there aren't hours upon hours upon hours more of the same that will be dribbled out, bit by bit, to keep this alive for years, taking out many Dem officeholders by association, they have some screws loose.

Anyone who is OK with what Lewis & Co. did to the whistleblowers, or OK with Rathke's embezzlement, needs to examine just what their principles really are.

If you define "progressive" as being willing, for the sake of pure political power, to throw minor children under the bus, willing to turn a blind eye to tax fraud and mortgage fraud (especially the latter given the role it has played in the current economic disaster), too willingly blind to recognize a "pattern or practice" when you see it... there is a SERIOUS problem here.

That way, I will not go. If you do, you will be taking a very small group of people with you, because most people have enough of a fundamental sense of decency to be revolted by all this.

[fascisthunter]

10. what truth... that a few did something wrong so we penalize the whole organization?

sorry... I can't go along with that kind of "truth".

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

16. To be fair, you may believe that except when it involves guns and gun owners?

[redqueen]

12. LOL... I was wondering when one of you would speak up today.

Still not embarrassed, huh?

[EFerrari]

18. What a bunch of cr@p. And you are confusing a sense of "decency"

with the most naive kind of gullibity to RW smears possible. Congratulations! Fyi, this story is all over the most bigoted, insane right wing sites, right next to the stories about birth certificates and how Obama shut down all the farms in California for a minnow.

lol

[The Magistrate]

23. The Member's Line, Ma'am, is Beginning To Remind Me Of The 'Whitey Tape' of Yore....

So far the only link he has provided is to an extreme and noxious 'PUMA' site, which a year ago was burbling that Sen. Obama's campaign was the worst thing to happen to democracy in the history of our nation....

[Hansel]

25. I'm still not quite sure what is on those tapes

They are clearly highly edited and cannot be taken at face value.

I have no reason to believe these two people and trust that they have presented a fair picture of what happened. I don't know them anymore than I know the people you can see on the tapes.

Let me give you an example. At no time on the tapes to you see the people video taping the conversation actually asking the questions while you also have a shot of the person who answers in the same shot. One of the ACORN employees tells these people that they should fill out on their taxes as being "performing artists".

Performing Artists. These two people walked into an ACORN office obviously playing dress up as a prostitute and a pimp. It is clear to anyone who doesn't have their heads up where sunlight doesn't shine that these people were not what they were saying they were. They were acting. Performing artists one might say. So when the woman said that they should put down that they were performing artists why would you assume that she wasn't exactly what she meant? Not that she was trying to say prostitutes and pimp are performing artists, but that THEY are performing artists. What makes you believe that they were actually responding to the scenario you hear laid out on the tape? What makes you think it wasn't dubbed in or that parts of what was said is missing?

There is not enough there for me to make a judgment about what happened because I tend to deal in facts and I know that video tapes and audio sound can be edited and manipulated.

The very fact that these clowns associate themselves with Fox News is troubling. Fox is not known for objectivity or honesty in just about anything they report. You are so horrified by the whole child trafficking because you take these tapes at face value. However, this couple went on Red Eye and laughed and giggled about the tapes and the people on them. At NO TIME did they act as though they were in the least bit concerned about the child prostitution. They were having too much frat party fun just laughing at what idiots these people are. I wondered why they weren't showing ANY CONCERN over the possibility that ACORN might be okay with the child sex trade. Could it be because they know that this conversation as they have tried to portray never took place?

The fact that the guy was motivated to get dirt on ACORN in the 1st place makes me skeptical of them, their trustworthiness and their motives.

I haven't decided in which directions to be "horrified" by these tapes because I haven't seen a raw uncut version of the tapes nor have I heard from all of the other people on the tapes.

You can make snap judgments without all of the evidence, but I prefer to work with facts.

[Raineyb]

45. In other words...Yes.

Rather vomit inducing but there it is.

[hfojvt]

17. that's what I thought too

Mostly because my Congresswoman Jenkins claimed that she voted against taking funding from Planned Parenthood (the Pence amendment) because that would be a bill of attainder and thus unconstitutional.

However, the House amendment is more general, it just takes funding away from organizations that have been indicted of crimes.

Also, it seemed to me that that amendment did not pass. What passed was the decision to send that amendment to committee.


Amendments have passed the Senate and the House, but nothing has actually become law yet in regard to ACORN funding.

[strategery blunder]

24. Thanks for that info.

As I said, this should be the judiciary's responsibility to handle. The judicial branch is best suited for sorting out who really committed the crimes without having to tar the entire organization with guilt by association (of course this is lost on the media and the right wing).

I really seemed to have hit a nerve today, didn't I?

[fascisthunter]

11. I'll Stand by ACORN

[Wizard777]

21. I'll stand by Acorn's mission statement and all who adhere to it.

[Blue_Tires]

13. major kick!

[sce56]

15. I wish the news media asked all the questions oh I forgot the real news is now on unknow channels to

the rest of the country.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/9/17/acorn_head_bertha_lewis_vows_action

From Democracynow.org

Welcome to Democracy Now!, Bertha Lewis. Tell us what has happened to your organization, your response to this videotape.

BERTHA LEWIS: Well, thank you for having me, Amy.

Our response was swift and immediate. I terminated all employees that were on those tapes. It was unfortunate that they got duped into this trumped-up scenario, but none of them met our professional standards.

Also, let me add, not one application, not one tax return, not one shred of paper, was ever filed on behalf of these folks. We have a ten-step process. They didn’t even get past step one.

And finally, let me say, in a way, this said to us—we have 700 employees across the country. Five of them actually got duped by this. But dozens of offices that were visited, these people were thrown out, and in several offices, the police were called. So, we don’t see unedited tapes. We don’t see the whole story.

This is a continuation of the concentrated, relentless attacks on this organization by Republicans, by the right wing, when they couldn’t come up with anything that was true. And their voter registration allegations proved that they got caught in the trap, because all of those people in Florida were turned in by us. They had to make up a scenario, try to get some unsuspecting people to talk to them.

But we have taken swift action. This proves, with the throwing out of this crew in dozens of offices, that our quality control works. But you know what? We’re going to make sure that we review everything from top to bottom so that at least this kind of scenario will never happen again. We’ve got to get back to saving people’s homes and making sure people get affordable healthcare, for one.


AMY GOODMAN: How many different places did they go in ACORN? Also, by the way, how many employees do you have? How many times were they turned away? How many times were they, well, given advice, like they were here, that—captured on tape?

BERTHA LEWIS: So, from what we can determine, they visited almost two dozen offices. And in two-thirds of them—you know, now, once we began to see this, because people didn’t really think much of it, when we polled everybody, we knew office—you know, in over a dozen offices, they were summarily told to leave.

I might add that these folks really were very aggressive and refused to leave in several instances in at least three or four offices, and that’s why people said, “We’re going to call the police,” because they just were very aggressive and very pushy.

We have almost 700 employees. So when they’re able to show maybe five or six, you know, less than one percent of our employees there, I would like to know any corporation that has 700 employees, if they could come and help us figure out how we keep 700 employees absolutely perfect all the time. I don’t know. But I certainly, under my watch, will make sure that our procedures are reviewed and that we do tighten this up and our intake processes and communication, as Juan pointed out, is more effective and better.

These video, undercover videos, which, by the way, are illegal in several states, because you can’t take people without their knowledge, so we are suing this videographer, because we think he committed a crime. We’re asking for an investigation of him and Fox. But it is peculiar that these were shot during the summer. Karl Rove, all these Republican things were coming out. And all of a sudden, the night after President Obama’s speech to Congress, all of a sudden now we explode with these secret tapes and secret videos. And I don’t think it’s coincidental.

I think that the right, Republicans, in particular, understand that they are out of power. They are mad as hell at the fact that Democrats are in power. They’re mad as hell that poor people in this country are really participating. And this is their way of fighting back: lies, rumors, innuendos, smear, you know, McCarthyism, with just trying to put a chilling effect on any community group or anyone that would even stand up and say that they’re organizing poor people. So, it’s not a coincidence.

They try to blunt any forward movement, any progressive policies. And now we understand their strategy and their tactics. Their strategy, from the beginning, was to denigrate community organizing, denigrate people of color and poor people in this country. And they’ve carried that forward. We have a former community organizer as president. Stands to reason, let’s attack the largest community organization in this country.
<Snip>


AMY GOODMAN: And Juan, just referring to this latest release of emails, looking at the Huffington Post, last week the House Judiciary Committee released over 5,000 pages of White House and Republican National Committee emails with transcripts of closed-door testimony by Karl Rove and the former White House counsel Harriet Miers. The documents reveal that Rove played a central role in sacking David Iglesias, the New Mexico US attorney, one of the several federal prosecutors fired in the string of politically motivated dismissals in 2006. Iglesias refused to cooperate with the White House’s political agenda of prosecuting ACORN for voter fraud.



So where is the Republican Outrage over the illegal doings of Karl Rove's illegal activities and the lies the Bush White House used to cover up his deeds?

[paulsby]

19. more "minimization"

which instantly discredits the argument.

what these employees did is "stupid behavior"

riiiiiight.

[The Magistrate]

22. In Other Words, Sir, Shrieking 'Child Rapist!' Has Just Worn Right Down To A Nub, Eh?

You put all your faith in the incantation, and it is not working as you expected. It was all you had, and it is gone. It must be awfully frustrating....

[paulsby]

26. no, i put my faith in honest portrayal of case facts

which this fails to do.

offering advice to a purported child trafficking pimp on how to evade taxes, hide the true nature of his business, and continue to exploit minors is not merely "stupid advice"

it's absurd and it's minimization.

an honest assessment of charles manson could state that he never killed anybody at the tate residence.

a dishonest assessment would refer to his actions merely as "a charismatic leader and advocate for social change"

while the dishonest assessment is true in the strictst sense (iow, neither claim is false), it does not honestly assess what he DID that makes him so evil.

similarly, describing the extent of the ACORN employee's action as merely "stupid" is similarly dishonest.

hth

[The Magistrate]

27. If You Did That, Sir, We Would Have No Point At All Of Disagreement

And yet it seems we do....

[paulsby]

28. because you sir refuse to engage the facts out of a seemingly religious

fealty to organizations over facts

[The Magistrate]

30. Retire The Phrase-Book, Sir: It Really is Getting You Nowhere

You commenced with hyper-emotional bluster, and have really provided nothing else to the discussion of this topic. You have made it evident you are willing to reach a conclusion on hearing only one side of a matter, and from this ground accuse persons who wish to be acquainted with both sides before rendering a judgement of being close-minded and dogmatic. If intended as a comic turn, it is decent enough, but if intended as serious engagement in debate, it falls far short of the mark.

[paulsby]

31. again, wrong

i have repeatedly stated that i welcome, and indeed the buden is on them, ACORN management or employees so targeted to offer EXPLANATION, exculpatory evidence, etc.

but given the rather voluminous extent of the case facts available thus far, congress acted prudently.
as for whether it gets me anywhere, that's not a concern. this is not a criminal courtroom where rules of evidence exist, and where ignorati are subject to objections and such.

iow, people can say what they want. if they can;t be convinced to look fairly and impartially at facts then they only diminish themselves, not me

[The Magistrate]

32. Congress Stampeded, Sir: One Of the Few Things It does Quickly and Well

What you have repeatedly stated is your belief that the information selected and provided by the provocateurs is the truth of the matter, and that persons who do not take it as such, and share your faith in its unvarnished veracity, are being dishonest.

[paulsby]

33. well, at least they didn't stampede towards the clitoris

have they never heard of a kiss?

[The Magistrate]

34. Well, Sir, That Was Rather Strange...

Still, by all means, carry on with whatever it is you think you are doing....

[paulsby]

35. just keepin it real with relevant movie references nt

[The Magistrate]

38. If You Say So, Sir....

There was a very enjoyable sketch series on the old David Chappel Show, much missed now, titled "When Keeping It Real Goes Wrong...."

[notesdev]

36. Heh

Guess being a hard-line ideologue also means no sense of humor.

"What's wrong with a kiss, boy? Hmm? Why not start her off with a nice kiss? You don't have to go leaping straight for the clitoris like a bull at a gate. Give her a kiss, boy."

[The Magistrate]

39. Quite A Treat, Sir, Being Called A Hard-Line Ideologue, And A Humorless One At That....

"I should like to take you seriously, but doing so would be an affront to your intelligence."

[notesdev]

40. Oh yes, sir

I am most honored, sir, by the grace, sir, charm, sir, and wit, sir, not to mention the politeness, sir, of your response, sir.

[The Magistrate]

41. Who Takes Up the Sword, Sir, Will Perish By It....

"Throw back the little ones, and pan-fry the big ones: use tact, boys, and reason, and gently squeeze them...."

[notesdev]

42. Indeed, sir

"Big man, Pig man... ha ha, charade you are..."

[The Magistrate]

43. Some Further Facts For You, Sir....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6587421&mesg_id=6588365

[BlooInBloo]

29. (snarfle)

[mdmc]

44. ..