#iranelection is trending again.

[Barack_America]

For those of you who know what this means and care.

Violence today as another state-sponsored demonstration was dominated by reform protesters.

Khatami and Mousavi were attacked. Ahmadi once again declared the Holocaust a "myth".

Tehran Bureau has a more complete summary:
http://tehranbureau.com/quds-day-updates/



Holding a green ribbon, a symbolic color of pro-reform Iranian opposition, a female opposition supporter attends a protest in Tehran, Iran, Friday, Sept. 18, 2009, in competition with government-sponsored mass rallies to mark an annual anti-Israel commemoration, the Quds Day that reflects the Persian nation's sympathy with the Palestinians. (AP Photo)

[Mika]

1. The whack jobs are swarming. n/t

[Barack_America]

2. Are you referring to the protesters?

:shrug:

[Mika]

4. Which protesters? The protesters Tweeting from Foggy Bottom?

Kybd 101st on the charge.

[Barack_America]

6. Wow. Iranians were left with one outlet to communicate with the world and you bash it?

If it weren't for people twittering their messages over and over again, the world would have forgotten about Iran long ago and their revolution would have been crushed.

Do you not recall that even organizations such as the NYT's were left no other choice but to report tweets?

[Billy Burnett]

11. Well Obama instructed the Treasury to ban IM & social networks in Iran weeks b4 the election

http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=1655904

http://www.allfacebook.com/2009/04/facebook-blocks-iran/

Twitter is all they have because of the USs Trading with the Enemy Act hadn't been used for IM and social networks until the revision by the Obama admin.

[Barack_America]

12. Just Iran?

Wow and here I was thinking that the Iranian govt. blocked sites and shut down SMS.

[Billy Burnett]

19. Yes. It's strange the Obama admin would shut down social networks in Iran when they need them most.

Stranger that so many here speculate that it was the Iran government that did it.

I'm no supporter of Ahmadinejad or Mousavi.

Just not a fan of false flag ops and US involvement in stirring the pot in foreign elections.

[Barack_America]

21. Read your own links.

I believe they say something about North Korea, Cuba, etc. The concern was clearly engaging in commerce with countries we have sanctions against, not a willful attempt to silence the Iranian people, as you are trying to frame it.

And FYI, Facebook is filled with Iranians. It was not shut down. A large proportion of the videos coming out of Iran were posted on Facebook.

Remember the story of Neda? That was first posted on Facebook.

Finally, the US absolutely did not shut down SMS service in Iran, the Iranian govt. did that.

[Billy Burnett]

23. Facebook is filled with Iranians? Yep. Foggy Bottom Iranians too.

[Barack_America]

27. All right, I see that you are not interested in debating reality here, so there's really no point.

You seem to not be aware of the background of how information was spread in the election fallout.

Here are some sources so you can educate yourself:

1). Facebook was up and running in Iran leading up to the election
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/05/iran-facebook-unblocked-after-hoopla-over-banning.html


2). NYT's article discussing the role of twitter and Facebook in getting stories and images out of Iran.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/world/middleeast/16media.html

[ShortnFiery]

34. Rich Iranians, who, if the Nation could be overthrown would be "in charge"

and become even richer. :thumbsdown:

[Barack_America]

42. Do you believe the myth that the "common man" supports Ahmadi?

That's what I take away from your post. Is that correct?

It is actually not true. Iranians from every walk of life joined in on the protests, even if it was mainly more educated and well-off Iranians who uploaded the stories and images. That's what made the uprising so powerful and threatening to Khamanei and Ahmadi.

This was not a protest by the rich and well-connected, like the Shah, if it had been it wouldn't have lasted a week.

[ShortnFiery]

44. Don't twist my words. Although I was born in Tehran, I DON'T know and neither do you.

Why? I'm an USA Citizen ... and so are you.

It's not our country.

Believe it or not we are not GOD'S WARRIORS. Most Iranians, I believe, would like to live their lives without our meddling. Having studied the atrocities of the former Shah, I believe that the average Iranian, wants the USA to stay out of their sovereign nation.

[Barack_America]

49. I don't know why you seem to be suggesting that I am a Neocon, or...

somehow interested in dictating Iran's foreign policy when over and over again I keep reiterating that my only concern is that Iranians be able to dictate their government.

Are you accusing people of meddling by repeating and reporting tweets and images coming from Iran? If so, I still don't see what's wrong with exposing a government's violence against its own people. Ahmadi's goons were attacking and killing peaceful protesters, are you honestly saying that is something the world should not know about?

I really don't see how I am twisting your words, you really seem to be saying that because the Iranians who can post to Facebook and Twitter represent a wealthy class, we should disregard what they have to say.

[ShortnFiery]

57. Neither of us KNOW exactly what's going on. There are "players" on all sides.

What I'm attempting to convey to you is that IF Iran becomes unstable, that will ENCOURAGE those who wish for military intervention to make a strong case to our President.

No, I loathe oppression. However, if there were ever a time for Iran to not be unstable, that time is now.

I'm thinking about the innocents who will die if we drop bombs in Iran.

It is my strong belief that major political instability in Iran is "not sound or wise" right now. Why? The ensuing "crack down" will produce an even more right wing leadership structure and make life MORE DIFFICULT for the average Iranian.

[Ruby the Liberal]

98. Yes, they do NOT want outside intervention. They want and need to do this

for themselves. This isn't about Ahmadi Nejad nor is it about the Shah. It is about changing the Islamic Republic to a secular nation.

[PVnRT]

9. .

[ShortnFiery]

16. Yes, do we want the folks who "Hate America Most" - present OR those ...

who "Hate America 2nd-Most" ... big difference save for the LATTER is supported by our hawks in the USA. :eyes:

[Ruby the Liberal]

97. Someone has apparently never heard of Austin Heap and Haystack

;)

[Warpy]

3. The 1978 revolution took over a year

and it seems the people are in this one for the long haul, too.

Likely they'd already have accomplished it had Stupid not been rigged into office twice and threatened them into electing their own asshole to counter him.

I wish them success. They've had a long, miserable 30 years and they're overdue for reform.

We won't like the reform any better than what they've got now, of course, but it's not our country.

[Mika]

5. With American CIA help, maybe sharia law could be put in place.

Like Iraq.

And Afghanistan.

Freedumb's on the march.

[Barack_America]

8. Ah, I see, you are a supporter of Ahmadi and Iranian repression.

That's why this thread upsets you so.

[PVnRT]

10. Ahmadinijad said bad things about Bush, so clearly he's one of the good guys

Didn't you get the memo?

[ShortnFiery]

20. No, the Green Movement Iranian clerics hate America almost as much and have the same ill will

toward Israel.

Reform? No. ----> Increased instability will force Iran to lean even FURTHER to the RIGHT.

[Barack_America]

30. Are you concerned about their interests or your own?

What does it matter who they support? Their votes were ignored.

Are you concerned about democracy or American foreign interests?

[ShortnFiery]

47. You know NOTHING and neither do I. What I want is to prevent Armageddon.

We, the great USA do not need to be meddling in Iran's Political Process.

It's THEIR nation, not ours.

[Billy Burnett]

13. Stick to Twitter.

Your blathering ignorant accusations fit the short form of Twitter.

#Iranelection #iran #gr88 need you to get back to calling everyone who might be slightly informed a basiji. :dunce:



-

[Barack_America]

15. I actually don't twitter.

I just read tweets over there during the media blackout this summer.

But thanks for the insult anyhow.

Unfortunately, however, it turns out that it was you was making the "blathering ignorant accusation". Isn't it funny how being rude can turn on you like that?

[Billy Burnett]

22. Calling another DUer of supporting repression isn't rude?

Maybe your world is black or white, but just because one might not support Mousavi doesn't mean they support Ahmadinejad or repression.

Its rude to accuse such a thing based on nothing.

[Mika]

26. Waste of bandwidth.

Twitter is for them

Cut 'n paste Basiji basiji basiji!

[Barack_America]

33. If a poster is defending a repressive government...

I do not feel it is rude to say that the poster is defending a repressive government, no.

That being said, I am at a complete loss as to what Mika's true position is, given more recent posts.

[ShortnFiery]

36. And you think this OTHER CONSERVATIVE is the answer because our Neo-cons like

him better? :crazy:

[Barack_America]

39. I think Mousavi is the answer because that's who Iranians voted for.

I don't SUPPORT Mousavi, Ahmadi, Karroubi, etc. I support Iranians being able to elect their own leaders.

I don't know how I can make that more clear?

[ShortnFiery]

41. He's nearly as right wing BUT he's more friendly to OUR interests.

We need to mind our own f**king business.

Haven't we KILLED enough Middle Eastern peoples to satisfy the neo-con blood lust?

It's not even our neighborhood. :grr:

[Mika]

46. So its YOU who supports repression.

Back at ya. ;)

You are correct. You have no idea my position, but, in true Twitter-like fashion, you felt you had to insult me. Basiji basiji basiji!!!11!!!

We have no business inserting ourselves in Iran's (or any other nation's) election. It most always backfires.

[Barack_America]

50. Wow. That's some crazy logic. I support repression by supporting fair elections.

Yes, that's exactly it. You should have seen me after Bush stole 2000, I was at my "repressive" best then, demanding a recount and all that.

I don't recall calling you a "basiji". Could you please quote me?

[ShortnFiery]

53. dupe

[ShortnFiery]

55. I didn't call you "basiji" EVER.

You have me confused with another poster.

[Barack_America]

59. I don't know if you are referring to me or Mika.

Mika accused me of having called her a "Basiji". I replied to her that I do not recall ever having done that. I don't see where either one of us replied to you about the basiji.

[ShortnFiery]

61. this "Basija" argument is between YOU and Mika. eom

[Barack_America]

67. Exactly. Which is why I have no clue why you decided to inject yourself into it.

[ShortnFiery]

70. I regret that I misread the link. Excuse please :-). eom

[Mika]

65. Assuming again?

Mika is a he.

Maybe you should take up some reading comprehension lessons.

[Barack_America]

69. Sorry, didn't get that from your profile.

Well, at least now I know you're not Mika Brzezinski.

But again, thanks for the insult.

[Mika]

58. Just applying your logic.

As in: none.

I would like fair elections in Iran AND in the US.

Its not up to us to fix their election processes - we can't tell neighbors to clean up their back yard when ours is a trash pile too.

We, in the US, and not Iran, should be focusing on US fair elections

[Warpy]

25. Excuse me?

What do you think they have NOW?

This is what they're rebelling against.

[Mika]

29. Exactly. So the US can't be the demonstrators real ally, based on the US recent track record

Hello? Anybody home?

[Barack_America]

31. Are you suggesting that Twitter is an arm of US foreign policy?

I honestly have no idea what you are arguing here.

Are you saying that American citizens should not be conversing with Iranians because that would mean that our govt. supports the reform movement?

I'm seriously confused.

What is wrong with American citizens publicizing information coming out of Iran, from Iranian citizens, in order to encourage our media to cover what is happening to them?

First it sounds like you are against the reform movement in Iran, preferring the Ahmadi status quo, now you seem to be supporting reform?

[Mika]

43. The Dept of State lent Twitter server bandwidth on Dept computer farms

during a controversial scheduled maintenance.

www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&newwindow=1&q=State+Department++twitter+maintenance+iran&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=


The more we interfere or threaten then, understandably, the more nationalistic they become. Just like any nation.

[Barack_America]

62. "lent Twitter server bandwidth"??? What conspiracy is this?

The State Dept. asked Twitter to delay maintenance with their host. This is not the same as our government hosting Twitter.

Please back up your claim that our govt. lent Twitter bandwidth.

[Barack_America]

17. This does seem to be following a similar pattern.

The attacks on Khatami and Mousavi will not help the hardliners' cause to tamp this down.

[LeftishBrit]

7. Best of luck to them.

[BlooInBloo]

14. Official slogan: Death to America. Protestors shout back "Death to russia"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81eaEL1cPfI&feature=player_embedded#t=16

http://twitter.com/TehranBureau

[Barack_America]

18. Wow. Someone on DU actually unrecced the attempt to overthrow Ahmadi.

Wow. Neocons among us, who knew?

[ShortnFiery]

24. Get Real. There are no "good guys" here. Instability will only HARM the average Iranian now ...

as we are figuratively breathing down the leaders' necks.

If you truly wish for reform for the sake of the Average Iranian citizen, it won't be through instability of their nation. NOT NOW!

[Barack_America]

28. It's not up to me to decide what's in their best interests.

They didn't like the govt. they had, they voted it out. Their votes were not respected.

That's all I care about.

[ShortnFiery]

32. Something tells me that many here would egg on instability, that's not for US to say either.

Minding our own business which does NOT include POLICING the Middle East, is all I care about.

[PVnRT]

35. ...and we are doing exactly nothing about the instability in Iran

Unless, of course, you or Mika or the others in this thread can offer some proof otherwise.

[ShortnFiery]

38. No, because Iran is A SOVEREIGN NATION. Pakistan is being manipulated

into allowing us to conduct summary executions via drone. That's not going to happen in IRAN.

We need to KNOW OUR PLACE in the world - we are no longer AN EMPIRE.

We can encourage reform, but it won't be brought through sanctions or military intervention.

REFORM will not be gleaned, at this time, through instability. Why? MOST Iranian leaders fear the USA a hell of a lot more than these people who are protesting. If they push too hard - too fast, they'll lock down and the average Iranian will be much WORSE OFF than they are now. Now is NOT the time for insurrection.

Most people HERE realize that the only logical people who want instability in Iran are those who are chomping at the bit for USA/Israel military intervention.

[Mika]

63. Jeez. You're debating here and you know nada.

Ejamikate yerself.

www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&newwindow=1&q=International+Republican+Institute+Iran&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Now imagine how a RW Iranian political organization pumping many millions of dollars into democratizing the USA would go over.

IRI Board members
http://www.iri.org/board.asp

U.S. Senator John McCain, Chairman

Ambassador L. Paul Bremer, III

Lawrence S. Eagleburger

Brent Scowcroft

Wait .... I think I hear your mother calling.

[PVnRT]

73. So, a lot of hearsay and conjecture, but no proof

Not that I'm surprised, since it seems you just believe whatever already reinforces what you already believe.

"I think I can hear your mother calling."

OH SNAP YOU SHOWED ME :eyes:

[Barack_America]

37. I don't think that the American people can mind our own business....

...when a government is killing it's own people for standing up for their rights.

Our position and the US govt's official position do not have to be one and the same.

I do think (and hope) that you were referring to only our govt. with regards to "minding our own business". And I don't think that our govt. really should mind our own business in this instance either, I think it should just be very careful to point out that criticism applies to human rights violations, and not political interests. The Obama admin. has done a perfect job of that thus far.

[ShortnFiery]

40. CHINA = most favored nation - trading partner. Can we say "We're hypocrits?" eom

[Barack_America]

45. It's not my favored nation and trading partner.

I avoid Chinese products whenever possible, for a variety of reasons.

Like I keep saying, I'm not discussing US foreign interest or foreign policy positions here, I'm discussing the Iranian people's ongoing fight to elect their leaders.

And, with regards to China, wouldn't it have been nice if social networking was available during Tienanmen Square?

[ShortnFiery]

51. Well, that don't matter Citizen of America - The average Chinese person lives as

if not a more oppressed life than the average Iranian. Yet, I don't hear ANYONE saying that we should demand that China rule in a democratic fashion.

You and I are citizens of the USA. As such, as distasteful as it may be, we are part of what our government chooses to act on. Both the GOOD and BAD.

On a personal level, it would be wonderful to help all peoples live in a democratic society. But in a real world, I must defer to my lack of power and Marlow's Hierarchy of Needs.

The last thing the average hard working Iranian needs now is for their nation to become unstable. I don't want to see us drop bombs on that beautiful land ... I don't want to see more killing and dying in the name of "Geopolitical Advantages" for the USA and Israel.

[Barack_America]

56. Since when does stability trump democracy?

Are you saying that Ahmadi, who is generally believed to have stolen the election, should remain in power as to not "rock the boat"?

And I disagree with the notion that the actions of an individual are of no real consequence. I may be represented by a govt. that practices policies I do not agree with, but that does not mean that my individual actions are worthless.

[ShortnFiery]

60. It does when we are talking about LIFE and SURVIVAL. ...

Right now is not the time for a major upheaval. I've explained why in numerous of my past posts. If you choose not to process or believe my arguments, that's your call.

Your sense of exaggeration of my typed words is ... well, IMNSHO, it's pathetic. :(

[Barack_America]

66. If the people vote for political upheaval, they should get it.

If a government is violently cracking down on its citizens, the world needs to know about this.

It's not for us to decide what is too much of an upheaval for them. They have the right to demand that their election results be upheld and I will support them when they do. I would certainly hope the world would have come to our aid if Bush and Cheney had decided that the 2008 election would be "too much of an upheaval" and a military takeover of our govt. was the best solution.

[ShortnFiery]

68. CHINA does every damn day. Get fired up about that one, there's less likelihood

that our military will bomb China and kill innocents.

I care about the innocents - all countries.

Living in oppression is IMO, much preferable to DEATH.

[Hannah Bell]

48. "killing it's own people for standing up" - lol

[Barack_America]

54. You dispute that protesters were killed?

You did not see the Neda video? Or did you think that was fake?

[ShortnFiery]

64. Let me just suggest that things get WEIRD "out there" - we don't know everything.

I don't know one way or another about Neda, but a lot of circumstances came together that seemed "very convenient."

Most important is that there's no reason to get OVERLY-EMOTIONAL about one case. Not unlike a few summers ago when our M$M got us all FEARFUL that pretty blonde children were being kidnapped in droves.

All I'm suggesting is that NONE OF US has the Absolute Truth.

This is NOT about "Good vs. Evil."

The political situation in Iran is not that clear cut.

[Hannah Bell]

102. I dispute that whether a country "kills its own people for standing up" has

anything to do with this controversy, nor with US support for other countries, nor, in general, with americans' support for one political entity over another.

Don't make me go to the list.

and why you call someone you didn't know by her first name like she was your buddy, i don't know either.

[Kaleko]

52. The popular uprising continues.

These people are so thoroughly fed up with their government, they keep risking their lives.

From the link in the OP: http://tehranbureau.com/quds-day-updates/

All of 7 Tir square, Karim Khan Zand and Keshavarz boulevards, and Hejab Street were filled with supporters of the Green Movement. A large crowd also gathered in Azadi Square, and walked toward Enghelan Square, a short distance from the campus of Tehran University.

Some of the slogans chanted were:

Palestine, we are just like you

Oh {Imam} Hossein, Mir Hossen {Mousavi} Karroubi, Mousavi, we support you

Death to Russia

Torture, rape, have no longer any effect

Not Gaza, not Lebanon, I’ll die for Iran

Leave Palestine alone

Long live {Dr. Saeed} Hajjarian {the jailed reformist strategist}, long live Mousavi

Long live {Grand Ayatoollah Hossein Ali} Montazeri, Long live Karroubi

The real Basiji, Hemmat and Bakeri {two commanders killed in Iran-Iraq war, whose families support the Green Movement}

Long live Montazeri, long live {Grand Ayatollah Yousef} Sanei


And to Ahmadinejad:

Shut up liar

Get lost liar

Where is your 63% {of the vote}, liar

[ShortnFiery]

72. We don't know "squat" via Twitter.

There could be sweaty, crumpled, over-caffeinated neo-con operatives in the bowls of the Pentagon ... TWEETING away about the violence and revolution.

Do we really know what's going on in Iran? ...

WE. KNOW. NOTHING. :evilgrin:

[PVnRT]

75. How do we know you're not an Iranian counter-intelligence agent?

Hmmmmmmmm?

[ShortnFiery]

78. Too funny. But I bet the people who need to know ... KNOW that I'm just an a

average USA citizen who was born in a US Army Clinic during the rule of the Shah in the City of Tehran. As such, I was BORN a USA citizen. Not unlike John McCain born in Panama at on an Army Installation. ;)

I have no idea what's going on in IRAN, but I'm intellectually curious. Given our history, I don't accept the news that is fed to us by the M$M.

Ask yourself, WHO does instability in Iran benefit AT THIS TIME in history?

I don't trust ANY main stream media source and I certainly don't trust Twitter. :crazy:

[Barack_America]

76. And the videos?

The ones that are clearly from Iran, judging from the landmarks?

How is the Pentagon producing those?

[ShortnFiery]

82. Have they been dated? Do you know the circumstances or are they just labeled? eom

[Barack_America]

84. Some, but not all, hold up a newspaper at the beginning.

So we can see the date.

Of course, this could all just be a Hollywood set. We cannot rule that out.

[ShortnFiery]

85. Yes, your glib dismissiveness. I always look forward to that. eom

[Barack_America]

87. I was actually being honest there.

That remains a possibility.

You'll note there was no rolling eyes or sarcasm smilies.

I think it's entirely unlikely that the videos were staged. I can't imagine anyone being able to pull that off, but I concede that anything is possible.

[ShortnFiery]

90. I disagree, and will permit your posts to speak for themselves. eom

[Barack_America]

92. Oh yeah. Everything's a conspiracy and a triple-fakeout.

I forgot.

That one gets the :eyes:

But, for future reference, if I say that I didn't intend for something to be snarky...I mean it.

[ShortnFiery]

93. Thanks, the emoticon makes all the difference in the world.

:eyes:

[PufPuf23]

71. Relevant Youtube from ABC News

IMO anyone who does not believe the USA has been running covert operations in Iran is astoundingly naive.

Personally, I do not have enough information available (and much available appears propoganda) to have an opinion on the recent Iran election but would wage that a vast majority of the people in Iran want the same basic needs for human safety and happiness that we do here in the USA.

I NEVER will support theocracy as a formn of government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRwUZ-u6KFo

[ShortnFiery]

77. Well put. Average citizens have NO IDEA what is truly going on.

:(

[Barack_America]

81. This video is not from "ABC News", as you state.

Please don't be dishonest.

This video is a carefully selected collection of damning snippets strung together with dramatic music.

I don't deny that the US has interfered in Iranian politics in a shameful way, but I don't see why that negates the right for Iranians to have free and fair elections they are confident in.

[truedelphi]

96. + 1 and n/t

[Barack_America]

74. This is the most insane fucking thread that I have ever participated in...

...But very informative of the wide variety of world views that are apparently on DU.

I figured the formulas of "people vote for leader = people should get leader they voted for" and "people dislike policy = people should be allowed to peacefully protest policy" were pretty much absolutes.

Apparently not.

It's been educational, to say the least.

[pampango]

79. Calls for stability and "Don't rock the boat" are not what you would expect to see a lot of at DU.

Maybe it's a left over of Bush and Ahmadinejad used to duel at being the most inflamatory speaker and it was hard not to root against Bush in anything. But to wish that the Iranian people would just stay home and "deal with it" (a fraudulent election) seems very un-DU like. :)

[ShortnFiery]

83. Yes, "black-white" thinking is always preferable to intellectual curiosity.

Judging what people who belong to a massive democratic board SHOULD BELIEVE sounds pretty HARD LINE to me. Hummm ... who's not being democratic now?

[pampango]

88. Just relating my experience with DU'ers reactions to what they perceive to be fraudulent elections.

Didn't mean to imply that DU'ers aren't free to have and express any view they want.

[ShortnFiery]

91. Cool! It also depends on what time of day. We are democrats, and as such, we

love to debate ... IMO, on almost any given issue. Different days - different thread outcomes. :shrug:

[Kaleko]

94. Your thread has been hijacked

by people with an over-inflated sense of the importance of opinions expressed by private citizens on the internet.

Histrionics and absurd exaggerations substitute for well-informed arguments...

Sorry to see that happening, though it's no big deal considering the very real plight of our Iranian brothers and sisters in dissent.


:hug:

[Ruby the Liberal]

99. I too am quite shocked

at the reaction here against supporting people who have had an election stolen from them. I am no fan of Mousavi, but if thats what the people want, they should have been granted their election. Remember when Ahmadi "won" 97% of Mousavi's home town? LOL! They can't even fake an election correctly.

Shamed and saddened by the reaction here to this election sham.

[Posteritatis]

101. DU's got a weird orthodoxy going on re: foreign protestors

If the government's snarking at the United States, that means the protestors are automatically evil to most people. If they aren't automatically evil, they're being controlled by the US, because brown people can never act on their own.

A lot of people around here have views about as nuanced as the most dedicated Cold Warriors. It's sad.

[Taverner]

80. I wish them the best

May we see a free Iran in our lifetime
And by that I mean more like a "Free Germany" than a "Free Iraq"

[ShortnFiery]

86. I do also, but it won't be via INTERVENTION on the part of the USA. eom

[Taverner]

89. EXACTLY!

Hence the not like a Free Iraq comment

[LeftishBrit]

95. I don't think anyone has been calling for 'intervention' by the USA

Supporting e.g. human rights organizations is another matter.

The idea that criticizing another country's leadership means that you want someone to invade/bomb them is a bit like the idea that criticizing Bush, or suggesting that his election was fraudulent, means that you support the 'terra-ists'.

[Ruby the Liberal]

100. Who is calling for US intervention?

The Iranians aren't. They want our support, but they also want us to stay out of it. I have been to 2 Free Iran rallies this summer and spoken with many, many people. They appreciate that we as PEOPLE are standing with them, but do not want intervention as that will just fuel Ahmadi Nejad's fires.

The only people I have seen wanting to intervene in Iran's affairs have been the Bush-McCain-Lieberman cabal, who have been silent on the topic since the election.