"Rationing" "Free care for illegals" "Doctors forced to perform abortions"

[ceile]

Need some help debunking the usual crap. A retired "constitutional lawyer" is claiming that "The law does provide for rationing of health care,
particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are
involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion
services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of
the medical profession."
If anyone could point me the right direction I'd appreciate it!

On a side note, this was posted on a health forum (traumatic brain injury) that I moderate. And while we try to keep politics out of things, I guess it was bound to come up. I just find it ironic that one of our members would post something like this considering that many insurance companies will try everything they can to get out of paying for rehabilitation after TBI.

[Gman]

1. First off, I don't think there is a class of lawyers called "constitutional lawyer"

as they are all constitutional lawyers because that's what our laws are based on. The only time I've ever heard that term is from the RW and usually regarding some nut.

Secondly, you don't have the burden of debunking what this guy is saying. He has the burden of proving that his claims are true. Simply saying "I've read the bill" (of which there are 5 or 6 floating around) does not qualify as "proof".

[ceile]

2. Which he doesn't do.

He claims to have read the whole bill but he doesn't quote anything from it.

[Gman]

4. And you were posting this while

I was editing my post to add what you said.

[gratuitous]

3. It's his job to prove what he's saying

Not your job to prove he's full of shit; even someone disabled by a TBI or a constitutional lawyer can discern that.

The short answer, as always, is "prove it."

[YOY]

5. When someone says some shit. They have to back it up.

If I say "the sky is green" you do not have to prove to me that it isn't. I have to prove to you that it is.

Save yourself some breath.

[Bluerthanblue]

6. it is his job to back up his claims, but for those who might be

reading and taking his "big credentials" at face value, it is good to offer FACTS which refute him.

here is a great resource for you-

http://www.healthcarereformmyths.org/HealthcareReformMyths.php#A25


Covering "illegal" immigrants:
Illegal immigrants are specifically excluded from coverage. Of course, this means that they will be continue to get their healthcare from expensive emergency rooms, so that may not actually be a good thing.

The section on page 50 of HR 3200 aligns Health Insurance Exchange policies with other laws currently in effect, such as the Public Health Service Act, State law, and ERISA. Health care cannot trump other laws already in effect.

" According to America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009, Page 143, Line 3, Section 246: "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." (see the second source)

Both the House and Senate versions of President Obama’s health care reform plans contain passages explicitly excluding illegal immigrants from receiving federal money to purchase health insurance from either a private or government-run health plan.(see 3rd source: CNSNews)
....more-

Rationing: Healthcare is rationed now. Insurance companies determine what procedures they will cover, and at what price. They deny payment on certain procedures, which means thay patients either go without, or they pay themselves. This is how rationing works in a capitalistic system.

Also: Referencing Pg 29, HR 3200, from Viral Emails Page 29 refers to co-payments and caps on out-of-pocket expenses as part of the minimum benefits package. It is not addressing treatment or approvals or anything of the sort.Ref.US Health Crisis
br>Private insurance companies ration care to Americans every single day. They reject applications based on pre-existing conditions and family history. They rescind coverage after an illness has been diagnosed. Their premiums and deductibles are so high that millions of Americans are forced to delay care or declare bankruptcy due to high costs. Ref.Media Matters Fact Check

As Ezra Klein points out on his blog: "If you look at waiting times, you'll see that relatively few Americans wait more than four months for surgery, which helps folks claim that America doesn't ration care, and makes our system look pretty good on the waiting times metric. Here's what they don't tell you: When you look at who foregoes care, the international comparisons reverse themselves. About 23% of Americans report that they didn't receive care, or get a test due to cost. In Canada, that number is 5.5%."

Rather Than Waiting In Line, Americans Simply Do Not Get Care. As Ezra Klein argues in the Los Angeles Times, "although Britain and Canada have decided that no one will go without, even if some must occasionally wait, the U.S. has decided that most of us who can't afford care simply won't get it."

Many more answers at the link-

hope this helps
:hi: