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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:16 PM
Original message
Charter school director blames too-hard tests and pupils tired of test-taking for poor test scores.
Now wait a minute here. Traditional school teachers and students are not supposed to complain about too much testing, and they are ridiculed if they say the test is too hard. In fact the reason for the existence of so many charter schools is they will perform better than traditional public schools.

Public schools are often being turned into charter schools if they don't do well enough on mandated testing which just gets harder and harder and happens more and more often. I don't think there should be complaints from a charter school director over the difficulty or amount of testing.

The irony is inescapable, and it is indeed breathtaking.

From the Ft. Wayne Journal Gazette:

Local charter schools score low

Fewer than half the students at two Fort Wayne charter schools were considered proficient on the state proficiency exam – well below state averages.

When broken down by grade level and subject, the passing rates were even lower at Timothy L. Johnson Academy and Imagine Schools on Broadway. Scores were higher at Imagine MASTer Academy, where the percentage of students performing at grade level ranged from 38 percent to 76 percent.

....."Shirley Hall, school accountability coordinator for Ball State’s charter schools, believes the difficulty of the test could have played a part in why scores are low. Students and teachers statewide complained the spring ISTEP+ was too hard.

“They were tired of testing and sometimes that causes scores to go down,” Hall said. “It was a lot, a lot of high-stakes testing last year.”


The tests are too hard? Too much high stakes testing? Just let a public school try using that excuse.

Charter schools use public taxpayer money to function, and some are found lacking in that area as well. A school in Land O'Lakes, Florida is having serious problems.

Imagine School at Land O'Lakes draws School Board's wrath

The Pasco County School District is putting Imagine School at Land O'Lakes on notice that it needs to get its financial house in order — quick.

District officials warned the charter school operators two weeks ago that they were dissatisfied with the school's failure to submit timely financial reports for review. Since then, the charter school has yet to turn in its 2009-10 budget, even as it educates nearly 500 students. That's a violation of the school's contract with the district, assistant superintendent Renalia DuBose said, adding that she would send another warning letter to Imagine this week.

If the school does not comply, board attorney Dennis Alfonso said, the School Board could act against Imagine, perhaps going as far as shutting it down for financial mismanagement. Board members were not amused. "We're very much in favor of our charter schools," board member Kathryn Starkey said, "but they do need to comply" with the rules.


They don't have to account for much of what they do about faculty, as the charter schools are not regulated as traditional public schools are.

The same company, Imagine Charter Schools, run by Dennis and Eileen Bakke has been criticized for firing principals with no reason given. Dennis Bakke believes public schools are government monopolies....to him education is merely one more opportunity for a corporate intrusion.

The Bakkes would be the very first to say that public schools should have zero tolerance of testing failures. Such an irony that one of their directors says the test is too hard and there is too much testing.

Charter school leaders fired.

How would you like to send your child to a school paid for with tax dollars where the principal and another administrator get fired, and no one will tell you why? Were they molesting children? Were they stealing money? Were they harassing teachers? This is the new no-oversight reality of charter schools, brought to you by the market solutionists and the corporate socialists.


No, they were pointing out that too much public money was going to the private real estate arm of Imagine Schools.

Greening and Wallace were fired for questioning.

Bruce Greening, a former principal at Imagine MASTer Academy in Fort Wayne, Ind., said Imagine required him to pay $650,000 a year to rent a 28-acre campus valued at $3.4 million. But the school used only two buildings on the sprawling property, he said. (he was fired)

..."Hugh Wallace knew accepting the principal's job at 100 Academy of Excellence in North Las Vegas presented a challenge. Eight months into the job, he said, he realized that nearly 40 percent of his state funding went to pay rent to Schoolhouse Finance. And the rent jumps a few percent each year, according to the charter school's lease agreement. A nearby charter school unrelated to Imagine receives about the same state funding as 100 Academy of Excellence. But last year, it paid about 14 percent of its state funding for building rent, according to Nevada's education department. So Wallace said he asked his boss if the school's lease on the 50,000-square-foot building could be reduced.

"I was told to never ask about the lease payment or I would get fired," he said. "I was given a reprimand."

But Wallace kept asking about the lease and about Imagine's control of the charter school. Wallace said Imagine fired him in early November.


In Las Vegas three principals have been fired from one school in two years with no explanation by the Imagine Schools' directors.

Parents say it's a revolving door and they came to Action News for help. Some parents say it's symbolic of the complete disarray at 100 Academy of Excellence. The charter school executive slammed the door in the parents face.

"We are here, we're not going anywhere. We are parents, we are concerned and we want answers," said one parent.

They want to know why the principal, the third in three years, has been placed on administrative leave just two weeks into the school year.

..."The executive for Imagine Charter Schools Vickie Frazier Williams, won't answer parents questions and when Action News walked in ourselves she wouldn't answer ours.


There is an Arizona-based blog that is investigating charter schools, and it is looking into that same school called the 100 Academy of Excellence in Las Vegas.

Here is an event they documented.

In June, 2008, a reporter from the Las Vegas Sun visited the school and talked to some parents:

"For Dana Tenant, the last straw was when she walked her daughter to class early last month and discovered a room full of unsupervised first graders. After waiting with several other parents for the teacher, Tenant said, she went to the front office.

“They told me, ‘Oh, she must be out of town,’” Tenant said, shaking her head.


“To me, you’re supposed to have these things in place.”

Tenant said faculty absences are frequent and teachers are often seen in the morning hurrying into the building at the same time as their students."


An unattended classroom of first graders? That is inexcusable. I much resent that a charter school has that leeway. When I was teaching the only restroom break I got was if an aide was scheduled (rarely) or another teacher would stand at the door while I made a mad dash. Leaving a classroom unattended was simply not allowed.

One reason given for the recent firing of the third principal was that he encouraged parents to attend a school board meeting to ask for more resources for the school.

Now we jump up to the present. Two weeks ago, the most recent principal, Timothy Goler, was suspended by Imagine Schools. Most people believe it was because he encouraged parents to attend a school board meeting 4 days earlier, where parents spoke up about the school needing, among other things, a nurse and better physical education. Imagine School's Regional VP denies that was the reason for the suspension. Parents have signed a petition asking for his reinstatement.


Yes, I can understand his concern. The money taken from public schools is making it hard for them to get nurses they need, and many public schools have given up on physical education, arts, and music. I can see why the charter school heads might not want a principal making a deal of this, if indeed that were the reason. It would not have gone over very well.

These are huge experiments in education going on with our taxpayer money. My taxpayer money here in Florida is now being funneled to private companies via charter schools and vouchers.

If a public school principal, teacher, or superintendent made excuses like the test was too hard or the kids are too tired of taking tests....they would be laughed down by the private sector and by parents.

It's ironic we are hearing that excuse from a director of a charter school company.

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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Another excellent post. Thank you.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It is just stunning to see them complain....
of too hard tests and too much testing. It blows my mind.

:hi:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Perhaps a reflection of the disconnect between teaching to the test and engaged, effective education
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
28. "teaching to the test and engaged, effective education" exactly right
Yes, there are some who either can not tell the difference, or who do not desire to understand the difference. They know NCLB is hated and is not succeeding, so now they are going to fund it so there will be more testing and more failure because there is no real learning.

It boggles the mind.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. As in every other issue
what's missing is imagining being the person in the actual situation.

School by rote, memorization, test-driven "instruction" is probably boring as hell, a good way to weed out the smart "troublemakers" from the "good" drones.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. The firesale of this country continues.
For-profit healthcare will ma'e us poorer and sicker.

For-profit education will make us poorer and dumber.

A few more decades of this and we'll be finished as 1st woprld nation.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Firesale is an apt word.
And it just continues.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
6. My kids were at a great charter school.
All the schools in Los Altos Hills were shut down to save $$$ 7-8 years ago. Los Altos and Los Altos Hills were in the same school district, but Los Altos Hills did not have enough ppl (ie- votes) to stop the closing of their schools and the selling off of the land.

Bullis Charter was formed as an alternative. Our test scores were always off the charts (in a GOOD way). The school is still there and still trying to fight off the petulant school officials.



I'm just saying that ALL Charter Schools are not bad.

Many are formed for GOOD reasons.


The influx of large #'s of whackadoodle Charter Schools is very recent.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I don't criticize all charter schools.
I realize there are good ones. Trouble is that while all this experimentation is going on, the public schools are being systematically destroyed by losing funding.

There are many good public schools that are losing more ground all the time because money is being diverted instead of being used to fix the public schools.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I fully understand the evil of many Charter Schools
Obviously the for-profit ones.

They stole the grass-roots concept of Charter Schools.

True - the religious whackos were also in the grassroots - but the separation of church and state SHOULD have prevented them from obtaining funds.


It is a quagmire -

They should be given 2 years to reach at MINIMUM the Average scores in their district. If they fail, they will be dissolved.

It is the best solution I can come up with.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
29. There's less public accountability.
Which is a double edged sword. On one hand, there's more room to be innovative without having a district micromanaging you.

On the other hand, there's less accountability - and more room to cut corners.

It all depends on who's running the school and why. If we're going to keep this program, there needs to be more state oversight upon issuance of a charter, because these investigations are not saving the taxpayers any money.
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gopiscrap Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. Fucking charter schools and home schools
need to get rid of both of them..90% of those schools were originally set up at racist segregated schools or economic segregated...homes schools usually are a bunch of fundie fruitcake idiots who want to isolate themselves from the rest of society and wait out the rapture. Get rid of private schools also...I am sick and tired of those arrogant elist fuckers bragging about their test scores, when they can hand pick the spoiled little snots that attend their precious schools.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I call bullshit
Your posts are very inflammatory.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. And I agree...the post is offensive.
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gopiscrap Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. If we are Democrats and Progressives here
then we should be for equal justice for all...charter and even more so private schools rob the public schools of both money and talent and also set a class of society apart from another..and in practicum doesn't teach a bunch of kids of the same class how to get along with others different than them. Also, if we are Democrats, we should be supporting those who have supported the progressives: unions...the teachers have a huge union which is very against this concept and for good reason!
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. See post #6.
Honestly, why be so negative regarding alternative education?

So long as the educational levels are at least at the 50% avg for the district - so what?

I'm all for new ideas - this country has de-evolved academically.


We need fresh non-secular ideas in education.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. It's already been stated. The public schools are being destroyed in the process.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. No public schools in the Los Altos/Mtn View district
have been destroyed.

They have been shamed by comparative test scores... but not destroyed.


If you read my post you understand our situation.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. THE public schools. THE public school SYSTEM. SYSTEMATICALLY destroyed.
Yes, there are individual stories of all kinds. We are talking about the big picture here.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. I GET that. I am saying that not ALL are bad.
If they cannot reach 50% in 2 years they should be de-funded.

There are some great ones out there - but they are few and far between.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I've read the posts here, most of them. It seems you are having some
cross post discussions, kind of continuing with one person what you're saying elsewhere. I'm not being critical, just saying. It's too late for this. It seems like there isn't really a disagreement. You countering my post with some other point you said elsewhere is just scattershot.


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Let them have charters with private money, not take money from public schools.
And then ridicule them for not having resources.

Good teachers are innovative in public schools.

And they are taking them away by defunding.

Please don't keep saying it is a negative attitude toward alternative education.

It is a practical stance, that when you defund public education....you lose.

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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Ours was started w/ private $$$. $5000 per family
and 4 VERY generous (and MAD ppl w/ $100K+). This is Silicon Valley, and Los Altos Hills was furious over the schools closing.

The Bullis teachers earn almost 2x what their peers earn - and they are worth it.

Some families fled to private schools, but this is a liberal enclave that believes in public schooling.





That said - I would prefer that the $$$ for schools be spread out over the county and/or state rather than districts.
If that were to occur our issues would be moot w/in 5 years.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Charter schools get public money.
Some are run by families, but many are run by corporations that get that public tax money funneled to them.

I am backing off.

I think charter schools and vouchers are going to destroy the public schools by taking resources from them and giving them to other entities.

It is your right to defend your charter schools. I taught over 33 years in public education, and it breaks my heart.

Not going to argue, just present my case.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Ours got public $$$.
We added to it.

They gave us a dump of a campus (after they sold off our 3 schools properties).

They assumed we would all slink off into the night to private schools.

This is a strong liberal area that refused to do so.


Google Bullis Charter and Los Altos to see the 5+ years of political hell we have waded through.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Some charters combine their schools with a real estate arm.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/4784

Don't know if this is exactly what you mean, but Imagine schools are funneling money to their real estate section called I think SchoolHouse Finances.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Not ours - we got the worst of the worst of mobile schooling

Eight mobile units placed in the Jr Highs garbage dump. We cleaned it up an made it ROCK!


If you look at our school we are the Black Sheep that outshines the flock - and we are vilified for it. The last piece of school-owned property in Los Altos Hills was given away to make sure we could not reclaim it.

It is an ugly nasty battle w/ ppl w/contracts to developers etc.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. No it is not an enclave that believes in public schooling.
It is a wealthy enclave that believes in private schooling augmented by public funds. The very wealthy parents of the very wealthy (median income $204,999 - 4 times more than the rest of the U.S.) community of Los Altos Hills get to create their very own limousine liberal "public" school system so they don't have to mix with the low landers.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. They took all 3 of our schools from us - we don't have the votes
Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 02:29 AM by alittlelark
to stop them.

Our schools went to Costa Rica every year to shine flashlights and yell and run around to make sure the endangered leatherback turtle babies had a better chance of making it to the sea.

We spent time w/Habitat for Humanity and many other poverty related groups, we cleaned the seashore......



Yes - we are wealthy. We try to instill the value of community service and a compassionate world view into our children.

This is a liberal enclave... Many are ex-hippies who had a way w/ the computer.

<edited for a subject misspelling>
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Thank you for your comments, alittlelark. There is nothing wrong with being wealthy or
with wanting to provide a better education for your children. I wish more parents and Americans shared your ideas about community service and a compassionate world view.

Your thoughtful and well-stated insights are appreciated.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #24
47. You know what?
Your community, one of the wealthiest in the country, did not have enough children to support an entire school system. You were all afraid that you'd have to send your kids down the hill to participate, with your "lessors" in a real life public school system. So now you get to separate yourselves from the undesirables, toss a pile of money towards a charter AND rob the taxpayers. But you get to feel good about yourselves because you do get that public funding so you get to call it a public school.

Sick.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
27. " The tests were too hard".....The Sarah Palin Memorial Skool.....
They are simply businesses, run for maximum profit for the owners. You get the minimum product for the money spent.
I wonder if these kids can actually read, much less think.

mark
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Yes, too many of them think of schools as "simply a business."
They forget that children are not products or robots.

:hi:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. That seems to be the top down national approach -- running the schools like business.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Sadly, that began long before W's era - I am very disapointed with our
education "system" from the college level down.

I had hoped my generation would do better with it, but I think we really screwed the pooch.

mark
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Yes and if you have some openly calling for destroying the Dept of Education
Hmmmm, who wouldn't want a healthy, educated, informed populace?...................................:eyes:

There's a word for it............


Aw shit, it wasn't on the vocabulary test. Whatever, dude. :hi:
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. maybe that test was too hard.....
need remedial classes at the Sarah Palin Memorial Skool...Hou too reed good.

markO8)
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Or else they just don't care, which seems more likely to my old cynical self...
it's all about $$$$$$$$$$
and nothing else.

mark

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. It is becoming more about dollars than about teaching and learning...
It's taken about two decades to get just about everyone on board.

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. Thanks for the ongoing education on this issue, Madflo. Rec.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Thanks...
I thought it would be a civil thread until just now. Thanks for the kind words. I hate to see the name calling start.

Nothing I can do, just have to take it I guess.

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Sometimes they work backwards
and reach the toxic root after the others. It's been pesticided now.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
33. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
41. Tomorrow's St. Pete Times...another Imagine Charter in trouble.
This is too much experimenting using money drawn from public schools which need it badly. It truly worries me. Nobody wins when both sides are hurting.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/imagine-charter-school-must-rise-above-its-f/1037395

"Gibbs High School has received a lot of attention for being Pinellas County's first F high school, but Imagine School of St. Petersburg also must raise student achievement — or face the consequences.

For Imagine, a charter school, that includes the possibility of being shut down.

Officials from the Florida Department of Education visited the elementary school last week for two days.

"Nobody is playing games with this situation," said Gail Daves, a DOE official who was part of the site visit. "We've got to make sure that this school gets the help and support it needs."

Imagine, which received an F from the state in June after operating for just one academic year, must improve student scores on the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test. If that doesn't happen, its staff could be replaced, including the principal, as early as next spring."
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. From the article...company fails to respond to head of parent group.
That is one thing very different...there must be a response from public schools. There does not have to be one from a private company running a charter.

"Scott Benjamin, who served as chairman of Imagine's parent-teacher organization last year, decided to send his son Trevor to Bay Vista Fundamental before news broke about the letter grade.

"They let go of what we thought were some of the best teachers," Benjamin said. "I tried to reach out to the company that runs the school, but no one returned my call."
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
45. K&R - the low accountability and
the complaining is appalling and needs to stop.
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Alternative education should be also ACCOUNTABLE education
You can't just ask for public funding to create a new charter school and just make it a "free daycare center" (which many public schools are already accused of being). That's the purpose of government - to make sure that the kids are learning properly. When charter schools are finding themselves inferior to the very rival system they intend to surpass, that's a bad sign.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
48. My child went to school with children that were prepping for
test taking in grade school. For years from grade school on this group of kids within my child's school district were preparing for the ACTs.
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Speciesamused Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
49. Success in later life?
What is the purpose of standardized testing
It has never been shown that tests have been able to predict success in later life?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Like your graphic...your brain on high-stakes testing.
Very apt.

:hi:
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