LAT: Oath Keepers organizer sees need to sound an alarm

[Heidi]

Oath Keepers organizer sees need to sound an alarm
Rand Cardwell drums up support for an antigovernment group whose views illustrate the disconnect that has come to define popular political discourse in President Obama's first tumultuous year.


Rand Cardwell, the Tennessee director of the Oath Keepers, is shown before their monthly meeting August 25, 2009 in Knoxville.

September 18, 2009

Reporting from Farragut, Tenn. - There would be no screaming at Rand Cardwell's meeting tonight, no histrionics, no playing to the cameras. The atmosphere was PTA. Garden Club. Kiwanis.

Cardwell had called this second meeting of the local chapter of Oath Keepers, and on a recent Tuesday night about 16 of his fellow Tennesseans trickled into a suburban Town Hall community room. Now they sat quietly around some folding tables, with all eyes on Cardwell, the chapter president.

Cardwell, a 48-year-old laid-off aluminum plant worker, was new to this activism stuff, but he wasn't nervous. He'd led enough meetings back in his days as a Marine Corps sergeant.

The group who had answered his call was made up of men and women. Some were just off work, while others were dressed in the casual garb of the retired and unemployed. All were white, which was no surprise in this white-majority Appalachian county. But they brought a diversity of worries.

<snip>

The first order of business was a recent report from the Southern Poverty Law Center, which called the Oath Keepers -- which claims more than 1,000 members nationwide -- a "particularly worrisome example" of a "virulently antigovernment 'Patriot' movement" that has been reinvigorated, in part, by the fact that the president is black.

The center documented angry videos that had been posted on the Oath Keepers website; in one of them, a man called Obama an "enemy of the state."

Cardwell betrayed only a hint of the exasperation that this line of criticism stirs in him. Nothing, he said, could be further from the truth. He served side by side in the Corps with African Americans. One of his best friends is a black guy.

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[MadMaddie]

1. Well I hope they are on the Terrorist watch list where they

belong.

[pinto]

2. Something profoundly sad in all this...

I can't quite put it into words, but it's dispiriting. And disquieting. I wish it were different.

:hi:

[Historic NY]

3. they should be on a watch list...they have a manifesto

http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/2009/03/oath-keepers-declaration-of-orders-we.html

[Berry Cool]

4. These guys are real wack jobs.

They claim that they are loyal to the Constitution (so far, so good) and to be apolitical (ditto), but read between the lines. They say that they will refuse to obey the following orders if given by the President:

1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.

Translation: Obama wants to take away our guns and we won't let him.

2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects - such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.

Translation: We expect Obama to order warrantless searches in order to find and take away our guns, and we won't let him.

3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.

Translation: We won't let Obama imprison any of us and call us traitors just because we want to keep our guns.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state, or to enter with force into a state, without the express consent and invitation of that state’s legislature and governor.

Translation: Obama's going to set up FEMA detention camps, and we won't participate.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union.

Translation: We believe in states' rights over federal rights, and the right of states to secede from the Union if they don't want a scary black man as their President.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

Translation: Like we said, we will not help Obama set up his FEMA concentration camps.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

Translation: Did you hear us the first two times?

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control” during any emergency, or under any other pretext. We will consider such use of foreign troops against our people to be an invasion and an act of war.

Translation: We will not let the false president bring in armies from his homeland of Kenya, or those Mooslim terrorists he pals around with, to subdue Americans.

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever.

Translation: Obama's going to try to starve us so he can get our guns in exchange for reestablishing the food supply, and we won't let him.

10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

Translation: We ain't gonna let that Obama keep us from havin' tea parties.

The irony of all this? They would have had much better cause to have formed this group when Bush was president, but nooooo. And they claim to be bipartisan? Yeah, right.

[Doctor_J]

5. Most of these 10 bullet points were implmented by Smirk

why didn't they protest then? Why doesn't someone ask that question of this hate group?

[JNelson6563]

6. "We will NOT obey orders"

WTF?? Just who was going to give these civilians "orders"? Yeah, these people are nuts.

Julie

[timtom]

10. I believe many of these members are

military and law enforcement personnel.

[JNelson6563]

11. That's frightening.

Oy.

[lolly]

7. Total whack jobs, but

If they stick to their little manifesto--I won't obey orders which are, in fact, never going to be issued and are entirely a figment of my fevered imagination--they're pretty irrelevant. They may seem themselves as some sort of first line of defense against the oncoming socialist hordes, but they're little boys imagining fierce battles against comic-book villains in the backyard.

[Canuckistanian]

8. And these are the same people who cheerily accepted the PATRIOT Act

In fact, I'll bet some of them even called PATRIOT Act opponents "anti-American"

Nor was there one PEEP of protest while warrantless wiretapping, illegal detentions and presidential signing statements were being created and used in the Bu$h administration.

All their rights were seriously eroded without ONE "FEMA camp" being established

[timtom]

9. I'm not gonna get into a cat fight over this,

BUT:

You all need to read the page linked to again. Read for comprehension this time.

Some of those people DID speak up against Bush's methodical stripping of our rights. This simply is NOT about Obama, irrespective of a few racists in the crowd. Read the comments following the 10 points. Commenters and the leader of this group make it quite clear that this is not race-based.

Moreover, I find no fault with these 10 points. To oppose them, one is admitting, for example:

We WILL obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects - such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.

We WILL obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.

We WILL obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

Respond all you want. I am done.

[JNelson6563]

12. You're coming from a world I don't live in.

First off, before we get to any "orders" and their contents, I don't subscribe to this order taking nonsense. The world we live in (USA) would have to change on an epic scale. The concept of all civilians being agents of the government and choosing whether or not to obey orders....that's just a surreal scenario.

It's frightening that there are people who actually think this way. Yourself included.

Julie

[timtom]

13. Did you miss the part about

most of these people are active/inactive military/law enforcement?

If you didn't miss this nuance, then it is your kind that frightens me.

(edited for subject/verb agreement)

[JNelson6563]

14. But you're crossing over and back.

Ok, so this manifesto coming from this group of law enforcement/military patriots is all about orders but that's their world. But then it seems applied more broadly in that anyone who disagrees WILL obey such orders the manifesto rails against.

Frankly, these people are very small minority among those who take orders. How many followed orders to participate in the war in Iraq? How many cops out there violating constitutional rights day in, day out?

Lots of order following and constitution disregard going on out there. Funny these folks are reaching prominence during this administration, not the one that issued all sorts of nasty orders. Oh that's right, it's a commie African in the WH now, hide your guns! Funny how so many of these items in this manifesto have to do with guns.

Will future amendments include similar statements but with the word "bible" in place of "guns"? A safe bet.

Julie

[timtom]

15. Julie, I believe you're missing the point.

Just think First Lieutenant Ehren Watada.

From Wikipedia:

"First Lieutenant Ehren Watada refused to deploy to Iraq for his unit's assigned rotation to Operation Iraqi Freedom.<1><2> Watada said he believed the war to be illegal and that, under the doctrine of command responsibility, it would make him party to war crimes. At the time, he was assigned to duty with the 5th Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, part of the 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, as a Fire Support Officer. Watada was the first commissioned officer in the U.S. armed forces to refuse to deploy to Iraq.<3>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehren_Watada

It's about not obeying orders known to be illegal or unconstitutional.

I think everyone who has read about these oathkeepers immediately think "freepers." And I suppose some or many of them are. But their 10 points are quite valid in light of Germany in the thirties and the U.S. in the last 40 years.

It's not about Obama. It's about the Patriot Acts I and II. It's about the Military Commissions Act.

[JNelson6563]

17. Alright.

Thank you for the info. I think this group will be interesting to see evolve over the coming years.

Thanks for the civil discussion Timtom. :toast:

Julie

[timtom]

16. And my whole point about stating anyone who disagrees

WILL obey such orders is that, taken one at a time, it appears to be a yes/no deal. I will NOT obey.../I will obey...

It's completely binary.