Man Arrested For Asking Anthem Blue Cross/Shield About His Rate Increase

[MrScorpio]

Joe Szakos leads the Virginia Organizing Project, an almost fifteen year-old community organization that Health Care for America Now works with in Virginia to organize for health care reform. Szakos's organization employs dozens of people, and they get their health care through Anthem Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

This year, Szakos was informed that Anthem was going to increase the premiums on Virginia Organizing Project's health plan by 14.1%. Around the same time, the Virginia Organizing Project received an email from Anthem:

We strongly support reform that builds a strong, sustainable private-sector health care system - and strongly oppose creating a government-run health plan. We are urging our elected officials in Washington to take bipartisan action that will accomplish that. We are educating policymakers in Washington and working with our trade associations to encourage Congress to build on the current system and not disrupt the quality, affordable coverage on which our members depend....

As our elected officials debate health care, they need to hear directly from you.

Szakos immediately had some questions for Anthem. Chief among them, why is Anthem using its resources to lobby against health care reform with a public health insurance option while at the same time increasing rates by 14.1%?

Szakos, along with three other Virginia Organizing Project board members, went down to Anthem's offices in Richmond, VA to ask. He left in handcuffs.

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/man-arrested-asking-anthem-blue-cross

[Cyrano]

1. Asking such questions is not permissible.

You have one duty and one duty only.

You must love Big Brother.

[B Calm]

2. I wonder what mitigating circumstances he encountered. . .

[RC]

3. Some of the quotes:

"We need a single payer option plan and at this point I would be amazed if I saw a real public option in the final bill.
You know, the bill the repugs won't vote for no matter what!
Unless... I know, we'll offer a free gun to every American, then the repugs would have to vote for it. No Matter What!!!"

"Wow, you can take a gun with you to a democratic presidents' speech but if you ask a polite question of one of our corporate theives you get arrested??? Huh???"

"makes me rest easy at night , knowing this is the type of freedom we are spreading around the world , at the end of a barrel ."

[WCGreen]

62. I wish I could rec your post....

Spot on!

[Lagomorph]

4. Bow Down to your corporate overlords.

Resistance is futile.

It's kinda like we're getting invaded by the Borg.

[eShirl]

5. We should all be grateful Anthem is trying to protect us from fascism.

yes, :sarcasm:

[iamjoy]

6. I'm Going To Defend Anthem

Oh, not on the rate increases - it's utterly galling that they are taking premiums, denying care and instead spending the money to fight for their continued "right" to deny claims on technicalities.

It's the arrest. The arrest was not for asking about his premium increase, it was for trespassing. Given the emotionally charged nature of the debate, it is possible that the folks at Anthem saw Mr. Szakos as a threat, even if he didn't do anything aggressive. Is it such a stretch of the imagination that a person - upset about denied claims or rescission leading to the death of a loved one - would resort to violence? So while that scenario doesn't apply to Mr. Szakos the insurance companies must be aware of this possibility.

I can't advocate violence to solve a problem, but I have to wonder how much different this health care reform debate would be if the people with the pitchforks and torches were actually going after the monster rather than the constable trying to contain the monster.

[Chemisse]

8. I figured there was a little more to the story

It's disingenuous to say that they went there with questions then were arrested, as though it was the asking of questions alone that provoked the arrest.

That said, good for them to make this kind of a statement. We should not be taking all this lying down.

[rucky]

11. What do you think his penalty should be?

Pay a fine? Jail? Community service?

What's his crime and who's the victim?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

13. his crime was trespass...look it up...JUST DAMN!

[Orwellian_Ghost]

18. Defending

private property over human rights? That's not good.

K&R for the story.

We need more trespassing of this variety not less. Tell me again what the Freedom Riders got by being polite?

[Joe Chi Minh]

30. Is that what they do to your hunstmen? In the UK, they sure don't. It's

supposed to be illegal now, but the magistrates don't seem to know.

The accused don't even bother to appear in court. It happened recently, the case was dismissed out of hand and costs made payable by the public. Handcuffed for trespass? That's a laugh.

It's good this has come out. It needs maximum publicity.

[BlooInBloo]

28. DUers are convinced that laws don't exist if you're cause is just.

[Joe Chi Minh]

32. No. They deplore people as dangerous, who interpret a grotesquely disproportionate reponse

to a misdemeanour, as wholly appropriate. Wake up to yourself.

[BlooInBloo]

38. "Wake up to yourself" - What does that even *mean*"?

:rofl:

[Jim Sagle]

54. It means you've been IDed as a five buck an hour DLC hogwash dispenser.

[BlooInBloo]

56. Pro tip: You're getting ripped off. You could get a real one to do it for free.

[Jim Sagle]

58. I wouldn't pay five shits much less five bucks for these Al From wannabees.

Sorry if that hurts yer feelings.

[BlooInBloo]

59. Uh.... Ok.

[Joe Chi Minh]

68. Thank you, James. Though I think you may have pitched his fee a tad too high.

[Honeycombe8]

49. Hey, I've got an idea! Let's us all go to Chi Minh's house w/cameras! And when

he asks us not to enter, we'll enter, anyway! After all, we've got some questions to ask. What could be more important than THAT? I know it's his own property. Heck shmeck! Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Behavior! We have a right to go anywhere with cameras! This is 'Murica!

Private property and security be damned!

Meet you all at Chi Minh's house! Last one in his living room is a rotten egg!

[BlooInBloo]

55. From one DLC hogwash dispenser to another: greetings.

:rofl:

[Joe Chi Minh]

67. Thing is, dopey. That place is open to the public. It's how they got in.

[Honeycombe8]

72. It's private property, even if it has a door for the public to walk through.

I work in a building, too. It is owned privately, and each tenant is considered the "owner" of its premises.

A government building is public property. An office building is not.

[Joe Chi Minh]

75. Again you miss the point. I can't break it down to monosyllables.

[Milk]

61. If "you're" cause is just

you should be out in the street. Ever see when France's workers are upset?

[conscious evolution]

78. No.DUers are opposed to laws

being used unjustly to protect the real criminals.

[Control-Z]

60. I don't know enough about the story

but is it trespassing when one is paying money to another for their services and then enter their premises to speak about the services they are paying for? Can a customer be accused of trespassing?

[Joe Chi Minh]

69. Don't confuse them like that. They'll have to think about those things, and

it's obviously painful to them.

[rucky]

9. He didn't even get through the front door.

The CAMERAS are what they saw as a threat. Being exposed is what they fear. Not the threat of violence from a guy in a suit and a cameraperson.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

12. he didn't come to ask questions...

he came to make a scene...you don't bring cameras to solve a problem...you do it to be sensational...

sP

[Robb]

14. Indeed

And we're talking about it. I would hope he planned on getting arrested, too.

Kids these days tend to forget that's the point in a protest action. Arrested, probably, news, maybe. It's not to change the world right there on the spot. It's not like the king is going to come to the gates and change his mind right in front of you. :D

[Raineyb]

29. The camera does not make him an automatic threat and considering

the frequency with which these companies lie, I'd say bringing the camera was a good idea. Besides, why not expose these money grubbing bastards for the rapacious killers they are? I think a lot of people would be damn interested in why an insurance company is asking for an over 14% increase in rates while spending millions in lobbying efforts (none of which actually pays doctors to give care to patients). He has a right to ask what the hell they're doing with the money they're extorting from him.

And so what if he planned to make a scene? That's not a crime.

[Rex]

52. It is to the pro-corporate stooges around here.

You would think they would die for big biz to keep fucking us over. :eyes:

[Raineyb]

57. It's a deplorable attitude. Let insurance companies rape the citizenry

but don't make a scene.

:eyes:

It's insane to say the least.

[MrMickeysMom]

53. Nothing wrong with bringing your own cameras...

I've done it at town hall meetings for years.

Michael Moore's done it and has become sensational, but I doubt Joe Shmoe is there to do anything more than make Godamned sure some could see it in his defense.

Now, by cuffing him, the insurance company is the one who sensationalized it.

[rpannier]

64. I'd have brought a camera to protect myself

If they spewed some lie about me, I'd have video to prove otherwise

[Joe Chi Minh]

70. You must hate Michael Moore. The way he tries to invade the privacy of those

poor, cuddly, wee CEOs and politicians doesn't bear thinking about. My heart goes out to them. He's so UNAMERICAN A Commie! Joseph McCarthy, your country needs you!

[Joe Chi Minh]

33. Bingo!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

10. yeah, but it not as inflammatory if you say he was arrested for trespass

you have to make it sound like he was arrest for just asking questions. THAT is how you gin up your case that you cannot speak out any more! He went there to raise a stink and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that he was hoping to get arrested...

sP

[Demit]

15. So if I go to my insurer's office to ask questions abt my premium increase I should be arrested too?

Not because of anything I did, but because of what I might do? That's a little Minority Report-ish.

Explain to me how my going to a business I am a client of, to get questions answered about what the business are charging me, is trespassing?


I have to say that your statement that "Anthem saw Mr. Szakos as a threat, even if he didn't do anything aggressive"—and your casual acceptance of it as a rationale for helmeted police to put a person in handcuffs—chills me right to the bone.

[iamjoy]

19. He Was Arrested for Trespass

If you think it sounds a little too much like Minority Report, than any arrest for trespass could be characterized that way - after all, what is the crime in just being some where? If some one is some where they are not expected to be, and it's on private property, the owners of that property can ask the person to leave. If that person doesn't leave, the property owners can have that person arrested for trespassing.

Let's say I buy a shirt from a retail store. The shirt is defective, or maybe I just changed my mind, so I go to return it. The store won't take my return. Maybe they have a no return policy, whatever. I insist they give me my money back. They refuse and ask me to leave. I refuse. They can have me arrested for trespassing. It's lousy business practice and maybe a lousy thing to do to a person, too. But to then say then that I was arrested for trying to return a shirt would be deceptive.

And you have to consider that Mr. Szakos knew he might get arrested, and was okay with it. Isn't it possible he didn't really want to talk to them, he wanted to embarrass them? He could have sent a letter or called his account representative if he wanted answers. There's three reasons you show up in person for something like this: 1. Letters haven't been answered (the article says nothing about letters or phone calls having been ignored), 2. You figure they will ignore letters and phone calls, but they can't ignore you in person. In either of those cases you hope to intimidate them into responding with some type of implied threat. It doesn't have to be a threat of violence, sometimes just embarrassment. The third reason is that you know you might end up being arrested and want the publicity for the cause. These motives are not mutually exclusive.

I do not think his arrest is okay, but let's avoid distorting this into something it's not.

[Demit]

21. I'm sorry, but your position shifts back and forth.

On the one hand you are justifying Anthem's rationale that it called for the police because it feared that a customer might get aggressive, although he wasn't acting aggressively at the time.

On the other hand you justify Anthem's rationale that it, or any public business with offices open to its customers, can suddenly deem it private property and accuse anyone it likes of suddenly being a trespasser.



I can see you've done a lot of thinking about everyone's motives. You evidently approve of Anthem's and not Mr. Szakos's. I still fail to see what his implied threat was. I watched the video and saw a mild-mannered, polite man in a suit, asking to speak to someone about his premium increases. Not only was he refused entry to ask, he was put into handcuffs.

I don't disagree that the headline was argumentative. I don't disagree that Szakos was anticipating something camera-worthy. He got it, and it's all the more impressive for his being so obviously NOT provocative. He got video proof that, despite being polite & nonconfrontational & nowhere NEAR intimidating, paying customers of a business will not only be turned away, they will be punished for 'embarrassing' a business—via the power of the police, who were all too happy to comply. Quite a lesson in there for all of us.

[iamjoy]

23. Not A Shift At All

Unless you consider trying to find middle ground and recognizing the points of both sides to be shifting, that is.

Remember that the people working in the reception area of these offices are not the highest paid employees, and not the ones making these nasty decisions. I didn't see any implied threat (other than embarrassment) in the video either. But we weren't actually in that reception office. We also have our own points of view that contributes to our perception. Some one with a different point of view may see it differently.

Indeed it is quite a lesson that the police are willing to defend the rights of private property from "annoyances", but won't protect other basic human rights.

But, what you see as a shift or defending Anthem is really this: I disagree with Anthem leadership, but I sympathize with the receptionist who has a crappy job and probably isn't paid that well for all that's involved. Maybe because I've been the one having to enforce crappy decisions at jobs I have worked, and I have had to deal with people insisting I allow them something that is not within my authority to give - or will cost me my job if I do. It was uncomfortable enough in telephone interaction when people refused to back down. If it were a face-to-face confrontation, I probably would call Security, who probably would call the police if it came to that.

I admit that my Subject line "I'm Going to Defend Anthem" was a deliberate attempt to be provocative in response to "Arrested for Asking...About His Rate Increase."

[Joe Chi Minh]

31. There is no middle grround.

"But we weren't actually in that reception office. We also have our own points of view that contributes to our perception. Some one with a different point of view may see it differently."

That is called "relativism", and is a recipe for dictatorship, anarchy, any social evil you care to name. There is truth and there is falsehood. You nullify any merit your initial blandishment might have had, about "not being there", by invoking this relativism. If everything is a matter of opinion to you, unless you were there - and evidently, if you were there, you'd do better to refrain from giving us your two penn'orth. At DU, we like trying to establish what goes on .... just as if it were an objective reality, independent of people's opinions.

[Demit]

45. Are you seriously arguing that it was the receptionist who made the decision to call the police?

Instead of calling for her supervisor? I mean, dude. The first thing a low-paid employee with no authority does is hand off a sticky situation to a superior.

For someone who is cautioning that neither of us were in that office, you have a lot of ideas about different scenarios that could have happened—all of them based on sympathy for the company's need to defend its property and its low paid receptionists from the embarrassment and annoyance of a well-mannered customer in a suit and tie. Good thing he didn't raise his voice! Or I suppose they would've been justified in calling out the swat team in full riot gear.

[Joe Chi Minh]

71. Her post is all over the place. Everything's a matter of viewpoint with her.

[quakerboy]

63. 2. Faulty logic

Its not that they cannot ignore you in person or that you will intimidate them, but that they may respect the time/effort you put into showing up, or it may humanize you to them if they have a face, not just a letter they are paid to avoid and divert. Its much easier to rationalize lying in a letter than to a real person.

[ljm2002]

27. I disagree...

...first, he was not there by himself and in fact had someone there videotaping the encounter. Those who come with the intent of doing violence arrive by themselves, not with a group and a video camera. Furthermore, he is not just an individual customer, but the head of an organization that is a customer and carries coverage for several employees.

The only "violence" these asshats were afraid of is the "violence" to their image that might ensue if their chicanery was exposed.

Well, they did it to themselves this time. Their image is much more tarnished than if they had just let him in the front door.

[ooglymoogly]

39. And I am guessing that that would be "trespassing" just to

the folks they don't like....they are running a business facrissake; If there was violence or aggression that is another matter. Creds for great apology for Anthem though.

[Horse with no Name]

46. So, a paying customer goes to the company to ask why

his premiums are going up, he gets arrested, and you defend Anthem.
Since when is it trespassing to go to a place that you pay for service and ask questions?
I saw GWB as a threat, yet nobody ever arrested him.
I'm sorry. These motherfuckers SHOULD fear us...but it sounds like the only bully here was Anthem.

[HughMoran]

51. I'm all for pitchforks and torches if we don't get a public option.

No public option, no private option. Simple formula.

[rpannier]

65. self delete

[rangerdavid]

7. What?

this is crazy!!

[GCP]

16. Why does he hate "Murca?

:banghead:

[blueworld]

17. Anthem & the medical co-ops are killing us here in VA - good for him

Even on the phone, when I called with questions about their ever-increasing premiums along with ever-reduced payout, they got snotty & threatened to hang up on me. I wasn't yelling or profane or threatening, but I was persistent & obviously unhappy. I had to point out to them that the call was recorded, I WASN'T profane & if they hung up on me I'd pursue it with publicity. I finally got my answer: basically, "FU". We're the insurer & we can do what we want.

They suck canal water, but they own Virginia & they know it.

[brightertomorrow]

20. hate to see what they would do then if thousands showed up

hard to believe they actually had him arrested. Why didn't they just answer his questions????

[surrealAmerican]

22. Who do they think they're fooling?

To inform a customer both that you are raising their rates and that they have such "quality, affordable coverage" that you are lobbying to prevent any public competition, shows you think your customers are idiots.

[Bozita]

24. Joe the Plumber, Joe Wilson, Joe Lieberman. Now comes a Joe I can believe in.

Good on ya, Joe Szakos!

[Odin2005]

25. WTF?

:wtf:

[Liberal_in_LA]

26. kick

[bertman]

34. This is commonly referred to as "teaching him a lesson." The lesson: don't try to expose us

by asking embarrassing questions with the cameras and mikes rolling.

If you've ever tried to get through to a real, human-type, accountable executive in one of those behemoth organizations, you would understand his frustration and his desire to get this on video.

These folks do not want anyone making waves and bringing attention to them, but their actions should spark a full-blown demonstration with lots of people with signs outside their corporate headquarters. Of course, they most likely have enough property surrounding the place that no one can get close without TRESPASSING.

Thanks for posting this, Mr. Scorpio.

Recommend.

[pipi_k]

35. He wasn't "arrested for asking" about a rate increase.

He was arrested because he was told he was trespassing and that he must leave or face arrest.

Yeah, it's wrong when big corporations treat us little guys like shit, but he was very clearly told what he was doing wrong and what the consequences would be.

The title of the article, and the OP, are misleading.

[eagertolearn]

36. I was just showng this to my husband and saying how terrible that their rates went

up so much in one year and my husband informed me that ours went up 16% with blue cross blue shield!

[semillama]

43. Anthem raised our company's premium 31% just recently.

Looks like we may be going back to UnitedHealth. It takes huge balls to raise rates while lobbying against the public option.

[Horse with no Name]

47. Seriously? How do you think they are going to recoup the $1.4 million per DAY

that they are spending fighting reform?
It is going to come out of OUR pocket. That is what pisses me off most. My money will go to line their pockets but not to insure my neighbor.

[JBoy]

37. This article is crap journalism. He was arrested for trespassing.

The story should have been "Guy who tries to ask questions gets arrested for trespassing".

[Blue_Tires]

40. yeah, as a lifelong VA resident I can say BCBS here is one of the worst

dealing with the one in RI is no day at the beach, either...

[Fire1]

41. Michael Moore knew better than to storm into the banks on

Wall Street uninvited. Maybe, Mr. Szakos should have made an appointment. :rofl: :rofl:

[onethatcares]

42. he should have called the

customer service number on the back of his insurance card to get a real answer. sheeesh, do you actually think anyone in corporate has an idea as to what happens in their company?

[Common Sense Party]

44. Another misleading, inaccurate and silly headline

No one was arrested for "asking questions." What nonsense.

[Seldona]

48. So that is how Anthem treats its customers?

I will be telling everyone I know about this for the rest of my life. Adamantly. What kind of business arrests its customers? A scummy one, that's what kind. I can say in all my years of business I rarely, if ever, made a deal or sold to a customer when it wasn't on tape.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

50. I hate this company

BCBS is very difficult to get payments from, I've found. They do a lot of delays, and automatically and beforehand refuse to pay for certain lab tests that some folks need to determine if they have conditions like celiac disease. I think it is ridiculous to automatically assume no one you insure would ever have this condition, or other conditions that are caused by food sensitivities.

[yoyossarian]

66. I can't believe how many fucking assholes there are on DU these days!

He was trespassing? He's not allowed an audience to the almighty corporation?
And there are actually nit-wits here DEFENDING Anthem?

Anyone who watched this video and concluded that Anthem is worth defending
is a troll. A fucking stinking slimy shit-bag troll.

End of story. Buh-bye, fuck-bugs.




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President Evil Online has risen from the grave!

[pipi_k]

74. I have news for you, dear...

If you step into any public place and the owner or manager doesn't want you there, you are trespassing.

If you are told your presence is unwanted, and told to leave, and dont, then your ass gets arrested.

Period.


Nobody here is defending Anthem for being greedy scumbuckets.

People are saying that if you're told to leave someplace and don't, you WILL be arrested and you can't play "Poor me, look at what a victim I am"

At that point, the only one you're a victim of is yourself.


It's an adult concept which you may not understand just yet.

[yoyossarian]

76. Thank you for providing the simpleton's perspective on this complex issue!

However, I gotta tell ya: This kid is getting tired of SIMPLY standing by
and being a willing participant in their own continuous, never-ending rape.

As are many other kids I know...



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[JBoy]

77. Are you saying he was not trespassing?

[yoyossarian]

79. I'm saying he had an implicit right to be there, and an implicit right to address...

...of grievances.
As a customer. The guy giving that company all that money all those years.
Am I stuttering here?

If he is technically breaking the law, then that law should be CHANGED... or
at least applied in context to a reasonable perception of real risk.
It seems to me the corporation is obviously misusing the application
of the law, and they are at the very very least acting in bad faith toward a
good customer.

I'm sure you don't want to live in an America where people are at the mercy
of monolithic corporations who have no consideration for their customers,
where people are held in thrall through economic slavery and owe not only their
own souls to the company store, but also the souls of their children, and their
children's children...

And I think it's obvious that this is no way for a business to treat its customers.

DON'T WORRY, WE'LL ADDRESS
YOUR ISSUES REAL SOON...

OR MY NAME AiN'T TOM DELAY.

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President Evil Online has risen from the grave!

[Orwellian_Ghost]

73. Ripping people off left and right is not a crime

if your a large conglomerate. They've got laws to protect the rights of these corporations. These laws are crafted by the corporate lobbyists and signed by the corporate lackey politicians. But it's

THE LAW

so you'd just better be docile and obedient citizens and submit to your oppression. All that hard-earned money was not yours to begin with it was and is THE CORPORATIONS just as is your very life.