Mandatory private insurance--the biggest conceivable anti-stimulus policy possible

[eridani]

That is because huge amounts of everyone's otherwise discretionary income will be diverted to totally useless intermediaries. We are talking 12% of income for premiums alone, not even counting co-pays and deductibles. This is an unmitigated disaster for an economy consisting of 70% consumer spending. The subsidies reducing the cost for those lower on the income scale will come from money that could have gone to rebuilding our infrastructure or creating new green collar jobs.

Certainly mandated private insurance might conceivably in theory be like that of the Netherlands, which has 100 euro/adult/month payments with NO copays, NO deductibles, AGE or any other kind of discrimination allowed. That, however, would depend on Congress mustering the political will to severely regulate insurance companies. But if we had that, then single payer would never have been off the table.

[ixion]

1. yep, in my opinion, mandatory insurance serves only insurance companies

and will do nothing to fix the problem, which is: Big Med (insurance cos, pharma and private hospitals) a rigging the system so that the price structure is astronomical.

Regulate Big Med, and much of the problem is solved. Offer affordable insurance plans (that actually pay, and cannot cancel) and you've solved the other part. It's that easy, but it'll never happen.

What we'll wind up with will be something worse.

[eridani]

3. Contrast that with the large stimulus effect of single payer

According to the CA Nurses, it would create 1.6 million new jobs to offset the loss of 500,000 in the insurance industry, for a net gain of 1.1 million.

[ejpoeta]

2. the thing is, if it's mandatory, then the insurance companies can charge us even MORE.

i don't care what anyone says... if they place caps on things and such. the insurance companies have had decades of experience getting around the rules... finding clever ways to avoid paying for things. and even if they can't deny insurance to people for pre-existing conditions, whose to say they can't charge them through the roof for it.

[barbtries]

4. this is a point that should be brought up in congress

over and over and over.

for myself, when i think of this, i think fuggit. i'll pay as i go and if i don't have the money i won't go. how dare they consider mandating "insurance" if people will still be dying and going broke for lack of CARE?

[Vinca]

5. Congress just voted to take the middle men out of student loans.

We need them taken out of health care. Insurance companies do NOTHING to make anyone's health any better. All they do is move money around and it doesn't bother them one iota if they move a large pile in their direction and someone dies as a result.

[eridani]

11. Good point--will use it in letters to Congress n/t

[Selatius]

12. You wouldn't happen to know the name of the bill, would you? It's been difficult to follow.

The news media is reporting a lot on the health care debate, and it has obscured the student loan fight.

[Arkansas Granny]

6. It's nothing but a huge gift to the insurance companies. They get millions of new customers.

[AllentownJake]

7. It is a terrible idea

and should be scrapped. Will see how powerful the lobbyist.

[WeCanWorkItOut]

8. Good points. It's a gift to the big stakeholders. But what are we do to to hold costs down?

I'm waiting for someone to really promote health,
healthy lifestyles and health information, not just vegetables.
I'm waiting for someone to promote better use of nurse practitioners.
Basic solutions. But it seems that the people in power are only
looking at clever ways to reallocate profits.

Basically, we need to take time to improve the discussion.
Isn't the need to do something so great that even
the distraction of the 2010 elections won't be enough
to stop real improvements from being made,
if we can manage some grass-roots education?

[eridani]

10. Most other countries use global budgeting

They set limits on capital and ordinary expense spending. That is like controlling the movement of a herd of cows by putting a fence around them and letting them move freely within. What we do now his hire a bunch of cowboys with sets of reins to each individual cow.

[Overseas]

9. Good point.

Medicare for All, paid with the same tax dollars that have been lavished on rampant war profiteering during the Bush years and continue to be poured by the billions at wars we do not support,

would put a lot of our discretionary income back into the marketplace.

It is sad that actual economic results that benefit all of us are not important to the noisy ugly GOP.

[Laelth]

13. k&r for the truth. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Thickasabrick]

14. Where did you get the 12% number??? nt

[eridani]

18. One of the Senate bills. The other has 13%

The House has 11%. All are way too much.

[Kablooie]

15. Absolutely! That money should be going to the doctors. They are the ones doing the work.

[TheKentuckian]

16. I'm unclear on how this is completely different than levying taxes on the rich that they aren't

benefiting from and don't want to pay.

I'm all for taxing the rich on this but I don't see the ethical difference. It seems no matter how this is done that some group of people will end up feeling screwed and angry. It seems many are against making any sacrifices but are happy to volunteer someone elses skin to the game.

As far as I can tell most people have coverage, many others either cannot afford access or have been rejected, and then there is a small minority of people that can afford it just fine but just refuse to. The last group can suck eggs if it will allow those left behind to be taken care of while keeping anymore from falling off the cart or being run over by it.

[truedelphi]

17. There are always groups of people that take advantage of a system and

Don't pay their fair share.

look at people who work under the table and don't pay taxes. often, like dyuring the housing bubble, these were contractors and plumbers, electricians etc. So you can't jsut say it is some underpaid immigrant working as a dishwasher.

The fact is, that every country in the world has Single Payer Universal HC except us. And they pay for it not from the high falutin' salaries of the stinking rich, but through the taxes levied against them for doing unecessary but fun things - like going out to eat. O rbuying booze. Etc.