Anyone notice what is going on with the Baucus Plan roll out?

[glowing]

The crazies on the Right are not effective enough on killing health care. The crap they are coming up with are just not sensible in consideration of the facts on the ground and the many who are suffering within the current health care system that America has cobbled together. Many sensible people understand Grandma is not going to get killed.. hell, Grandma gets medicare and its damn good compared to the shit the insurance co's make us buy. The insurance co's are expensive and barely cover a damn thing when you actually need it. If you ask most people in a logical manner if they would like to have medicare from cradle to grave, or as I like to say "diaper to depends", they would say, "yeah, I'd like that, it works pretty well and Grandma gets covered better than I do".

Now, the roll out of the Baucus Plan, a plan cobbled together by this gang of six and really written by the lobbyists and special interests, was highlighted heavily so as to have people on the left extremely miffed and ready to call their reps to ditch any plans. Its a horrible plan; a give away to the insurance co's. But seriously, how many in America really understand how the Senate works? The Baucus Plan hasn't even gone through the mark up in the committee yet. It hasn't been voted to get out of committee yet. It must get out of committee in order for the entire Senate to work on merging the 3 bills... Even then, once it passes the first Senate vote, it must then be merged with the House's version of the health care bill.. then it comes back for final vote with no more add ons. The final version is the one we want to rail against if it really does suck.

The reason for so much news around the "Baucus Plan" is that they are hoping that it will now be the left who calls and says "kill it" because its a bad bill. Its insane to call the Senate and say "kill it" at this point. It hasn't gotten out of committee; hasn't even been marked up. The money interests are hoping that a really bad health care bill will cause support for reform to tank. With most of the country saying, "no", then the congress-critters can hide behind a "no reform" vote because its "socialism" to pukes and an insurance giveaway for Dem's.

Think about it, how many plans are put out on the news channels before even mark up or leaving a committee? How many bills are even discussed before it comes down to the final version that is determined between the Senate and House final version? Don't get stuck on stupid. Call and let your congress-critters know that you support a Public Option and a real chance for Americans to have health care, but please don't call them at this point and ask them to kill it because Baucus and his employers (special interests and lobbyists) roll this plan out like its the final version of what to expect in the end. They made it a spectacle on purpose. They made it a big conference on t.v. AND every newsie tuned in to cover it. They have all kinds of progressive Dem's out on the airwaves saying how badly his plan sucks. Well, it does. But its not the end. This is the time to continue pushing for real reforms. We are going to get it. Not doing anything will destroy any hopes of returning a middle class society. Not doing anything will guarantee that we continue to fear getting sick; we fear losing a job with benefits. Allowing easier access to health care will allow more people to try a hand in creating their own business... Let's face it, its the small businessperson that will lead us out of the recession/ depression. It will not be a large corporation that can pick up cheaper labor pools in other countries to offset their margins. Health care reform is the way for more in this country to become MORE independent and free. Seems crazy to think its actually a more socialistic health care model that would create more personal freedom. I know those wacky pukes that fear the black man just can't understand this, but we do. We need to keep strong and demand that health care is viewed as a right; not a privilege.

[demwing]

1. One good thing coming out of this debacle -

Is a crash course for America on the life story of a bill. I do not think, in my 46 years, that I ever remember so much reporting at this stage of the process.

[glowing]

4. What's really pathetic and sad is that Americans are not taught for the most part

within their school curriculum how a bill becomes law. How the supreme court works. What the official job of the President is (what Bush did was way outside of what a President is supposed to do, and had more understood his power grab, more would have called for his removal).

[LWolf]

6. Bullshit.

We teach it.

In the era of NCLB, high stakes testing, and the "standards and accountability" movement which is all about blaming schools for political failures, we don't spend enough time, it's true.

We do teach it. But when curricular priorities are determined by top-down threats about reading and math scores, social studies gets short shrift when it comes to time spent.

If you don't like it, call off the political dogs. While you're at it, how about a bill re-regulating the media? In addition to moving all the damned propaganda off the air waves, perhaps we could go back to airing school house rock songs during Saturday morning cartoon commercial breaks. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ

[glowing]

8. No, its not taught in a significant way in many places. You may teach it, in a way that

one of your students could go out and understand how the entire process works.. well enough to run themselves and understand the process of politics and law making.. However, if you are teaching with corporate bound school books, then it is not well taught. Corporations don't want you to know how to be effective in minding your govt.

Bills like NCLB would never have existed had corporations not bought themselves in a long time ago. Many of the crappy things we endure come back to corporate personhood, and their role in our democracy.

Most 12 graders can not pass a citizenship test. For most of Americans to understand where this bill is at or how it works, is beyond their comprehension because it hasn't been taught in a fashion that allows them to be pro-active.

don't get pissed at me because I realize that corporations and rich pukes want a fascist state. the dumber a populace is, the worse the democracy will be. Understanding the rules and the makeup of govt would go a long way. I would bet many don't understand the difference between Senate and House. Many people in America don't know who Nancy Pelosi is or Reed. I would bet many don't know the name of the VP. AND even less know who Baucus is... Think about the numbers of people who actually vote.. primaries, elections, general elections... many Americans do not participate in the country that they are supposed to participate within.. If they did, life for everyone might actually be better.. Education, job security, healthcare, and more personal freedoms. We are the only industrialized nation without mandated paid time off for vacation, sick time, and personal time for sickness/ pregnancy/ taking care of a loved one at end of life.

[LWolf]

11. I can only speak for myself and the many colleagues

I am in contact with across my state and the nation, of course.

Again, I'll say: if the time and effort spent on civic education displeases you, take it to the politicians who have directed the course of curriculum and instruction for the last decades.

[madamesilverspurs]

12. Back in the days of my public education

our civics and history classes were almost always taught by the off-season coaches. Nice enough guys, but clearly not enthusiastic about the subject matter; one coach put the textbook on the overhead projector and read it aloud while we followed along in our own books. No one bothered to ask questions. When the season changed, we'd get a new "teacher". I was never fortunate enough to be assigned to the rare classes where the instructor had majored in the subject matter. My first real history class was in college, same for civics.

[Penguin31]

13. Then ask the coaches to show an explanatory video even they'll understand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ - the classic "I'm Just a Bill" Schoolhouse Rock cartoon.

Schoolhouse Rock was awesome - we need more things like *this* on TV. And though it misses a fine point here and there for the sake of brevity, it's extremely detailed for a 3 minute cartoon.

[madamesilverspurs]

14. Exactly what I'd do

if I could go back 50 years!

[Old Codger]

2. Ok BUT

It is pathetic that it was even considered as a start..

[glowing]

7. I think many bills start out just as horrible.. and within the committees and the Senate,

they become shaped into something that will become law. This is just the process of making a bill. I think the 13% of one's income going to the ins. co's is a huge stretch.. but since they put that in, what would be a "fair" % of one's income going to pay for healthcare? When should subsidies count, or would it be more economical just to roll those who would need a subsidy into the medicare pool and increase the medicare pay portion from their paycheck? Opening up the % of what a family should pay for healthcare per year isn't the worst idea.. How much should we be paying... and if its too much, how should we pay for it to close the gap in affodability.. I say tax the wealthy top %'rs. They normally have made their money off the backs of others and seem to provide services that Americans tend to need.. like gas, oil, credit cards, mortgages, telephones, t.v., food, Walmart... or they are wealthy by inheritence.. passed on mony that doesn't really value their worth as a person, just the size of their purse.

[47of74]

3. Yep, that's what I've been doing

Telling them that we need a strong public option, and to stop playing nice with Republicans.

[LWolf]

5. I don't think it's a bad thing.

The more the rest of Congress are hearing "kill it," the harder it is for them to justify passing a bill without "killing" the worst parts.

[glowing]

9. No, the easier it is for them to kill the entire bill. Of course, I think if we call

and say Public Option is the compromise.. that we want medicare for all, but are only willing to go along if there is a way to compete with ins. co's with a govt run Public Option... Eventually, hopefully, we will end up with a medicare for all system.. or maybe the Public Option will work better. Some of the other reforms they are placing on providers and pharma should help to lower costs for administering health care. One of the big talking points I hear for pukes is that with more people in the system, there won't be enough providers and docs/ nurses and the system will become strained with the increase of people accessing medical needs. Its about the sickest reason not to reform because you think your doc may be too busy with the increase of patients... Well, I'd say we need to make sure educationally, that it is more affordable to become a Doctor or a nurse or that there are more clinics and hospitals and that more docs are willing to go into a rural area an still survive. Most docs would find it tough going working in a rural area where the patient load is small and ins. plans sparse.. How do they pay back their medical loans? Some people in rural areas are hrs away from a large hospital that would administer to their needs... one of the reasons why people within the VA system become upset.. not enough VA hospitals to go to in a rural area.

[LWolf]

10. Obviously, a public option is the compromise.

Frankly, I'd rather see the bill fail rather than see a bill that actually makes accessing health care harder and more expensive pass.