O'Keefe said he went after ACORN because it registers minorities likely to vote against Republicans

[Emit]

James O’Keefe, one of the two filmmakers, said he went after ACORN because it registers minorities likely to vote against Republicans: “Politicians are getting elected single-handedly due to this organization,” O’Keefe told The Washington Post. “No one was holding this organization accountable.”

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/sep/20/now-hot-water-did-acorn-grow-too-big-its-own-good/

Need more be said?

O'Keefe needs to release all unedited versions of his tapes. All of them, and let's judge these ACORN workers based on the unedited versions of these tapes.

[tanyev]

1. “Politicians are getting elected single-handedly due to this organization,”

“No one was holding this organization accountable.”


So he'll be going after FOX News soon?

[Mz Pip]

4. Accountable for what?

Registering people to vote?

Republicans have their own community organizing for voter registration, too.

[blm]

5. And Republican groups signing up voters THROW AWAY Dem registrations - where's the INVESTIGATION?

.

[drm604]

16. Accountable for

the treasonous, traitorous, un-American activity of registering people to vote... no, wait, not "people" - "brown people" - registering brown people to vote.

[iceman66]

27. Apparently in his mind,

poor people and minorities voting is a crime.

[Mz Pip]

33. Especially when

your guy ends up losing.

We're on to the voter suppression thing the GOP has worked so hard to develop during the first part of this millenium.

[Mz Pip]

2. that's why I'm not opposed

to an investigation. All the other stuff will come out - the unedited versions of the tapes, the tapes where these "investigative reporters" were thrown out of ACORN offices - all of it.

[BlooInBloo]

3. Well duh. That's why I assume so many DUers are against them too.

[mzmolly]

6. Agree. Release all unedited versions of every video tape!

:kick:

[Turborama]

7. K&R Has anyone got the latest news on ACORN sueing these wackjobs?

Additionally, I think a strong link with the funding coming from the Leadership Institute will be found soon.

[kelly1mm]

12. In all likelyhood ACORN will not sue. They don't want to be open to discovery requests. nt

[Hannah Bell]

14. bs. that's just the winger meme. no one's buying it. discovery is limited to relevant items, btw.

[drm604]

17. And even if ACORN didn't sue for some reason,

the employees could still sue for defamation.

[kelly1mm]

23. This could work to get the unedited tapes of each employees encounter

with the tapers and keep ACORN out of it. If the tapes were edited to take things out of context they would have a good case. Since ACORN fired them (mostly) I doubt it would be enough though. Maybe we will see.

[drm604]

24. How would ACORN firing them make it not enough?

ACORN firing them means that they suffered material harm due to these stings. IANAL but I would think that the fact they were fired may actually help their case against O'Keefe et al. Their actions caused the employees to lose a source of income.

Not only that, they've publicly accused the employees of willingly engaging in the trafficking of child sex slaves. Can you imagine a worse stigma to have hanging over you?

They have destroyed these people's lives and livelihoods.

[kelly1mm]

26. The firing would show the economic damages needed in a

slander/defamation action and would be beneficial that way. However, ACORN (I assume) fired them for what looks like giving advice that could be seen as facilitation of tax evasion/tax fraud. If they actually did give that advice (and it wasn't spliced together in editing) then they got fired appropriately and bringing the actual statements of the workers to light would not be defamation. If your life gets ruined for the words you use, the person who publishes those words has not slandered you. If they made up the words they say you used then they did. Example - I say "I don't want to kill my neighbor. But I hate him because he is black." You publish (or tell others) of my statement and I end up losing my job, my friends won't talk to me and, people point and laugh at me on the street. Not slanderous - I did say those words - even though my life is destroyed. If, on the other hand you published or told others that I said "I want to kill my neighbor." (omitting the word "don't") then, if I am economically damaged by your (false) statement I could have a cause of action against you.

Again, the bottom line is that truth is a defense to slander/libel/defamation. My point was that ACORN seems to believe that even as this was a setup and even without seeing the unedited tape the actual words said by the workers were enough to warrant their dismissal.

[kelly1mm]

18. Discovery is allowed for anything that COULD contain relevant information.

Since ACORN would probably sue under some type of slander/defamation cause of action, truth would be a defense. What types of discovery would be allowed in such a suit one may ask? All emails, all internal memos, all discipline files, all board of directors meeting minutes etc (so long as not otherwise privileged - usually attorney/client) It does not matter that they are on some totally unrelated topic - they COULD contain relevant information and are thus discoverable. Once freedomworks et. al. get copies of that stuff they would spin it out of control - even if other organizations/corporations do things 100x worse.

ACORN has a political/public relations problem that will not be fixed by a law suit - especially if it is limited to only the two "film makers".

It could be a RW meme (I really had not heard it yet - have a link?) but does not mean it should not be considered. Broken clocks are right twice a day and all that ....

[Hannah Bell]

22. nope. "all" communication & files wouldn't be allowed. keep trying, though.

[kelly1mm]

25. You are right in theory. My experience is that FRCP 26(b)(1) is

read by the courts very broadly. I should not have use the words "all". That is almost always not the case and I was wrong.

Still, I don't know if ACORN wants to take that chance. There is a risk to any lawsuit however and ACORN will, I am sure, carefully weigh the pros and cons of going forward.

I don't really care either way. As I said before, I think ACORN has a political/public relations problem and a lawsuit, even if successful, will probably not solve that. If you disagree that's cool. I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

[Hannah Bell]

28. My thoughts = produce the tapes for independent examination.

Nothing like rushing to judgment over media-hyped psy-ops funded by hidden interests, though.

[kelly1mm]

30. I would love to see the unedited tapes as well. A lawsuit/congressional

investigation will probably be the only way we will ever get them though. Back to the beginning of this sub thread I suppose.

A congressional investigation would just keep this in the news longer and be a republican/blue dog witch hunt in my opinion. So that would probably not help ACORN either.

About the rush to judgment - are you referring to ACORN firing the workers? The congress (both repubs and most Democrats) voting to de-fund ACORN? The press? Others? All of the above?

edited for typos

[Turborama]

38. Exactly, that's why I was asking about the possible court case

That's the only way anyone will be able to get hold of the unedited tapes, they clearly aren't going to broadcast or hand them over willingly.

Thanks everyone for your responses. It looks like a wait and see thing, I guess.

[sabrina 1]

31. Wrong, only material relevant to the case is discoverable.

ACORN's 'problem' is the rabid rightwing which has been after the organization for decades because they help the poor and minorities to be a part of this society. As you can see by the OP, O'Keefe simply put it into words.

All organizations as big as this one, have operational and employee problems. The work they do is admirable and not work most people would do if you paid them a million dollars. Considering their successes over the years, the problems, which do exist, they are human after all, are minimal.

If they are forced out of business, millions of people will be adversely affected. If these righgtwing thugs had any interest in making this a better country, rather than attacking organizations like this, they would offer whatever help might be needed to fix any problems they have.

What ACORN has a PR problem. Goldman Sachs eg, has done more harm, is guilty of more corruption than ACORN could achieve in several lifetimes, but it doesn't matter. They have great PR.

[kelly1mm]

32. See post #25 for my retraction / clarification on discovery. I think we

agree that ACORN's problem is PR related (I added political but really it is all PR - even ACORN supporters in congress can't openly defend them now because of the bad PR around ACORN.

Do you think a lawsuit would do any good at this point and not simply further keep this in the news? Even if they are successful in a suit are those employees getting their jobs back? ACORN getting to work in the census? Federal funding reinstated? It may be best to shut down and reorganize as another agency at this point. ACORN has done such good work in the past that this is a shame but may be the only way to make sure the work gets done going forward.

[sabrina 1]

36. Thanks, sorry if I came across badly but these rightwingers

really bother me. They've been doing this nasty stuff for so long, and the left doesn't seem willing to take them on.

You are right about PR and politicians feeling the need to stay away from them. Maybe we ought to write to Ms. Lewis who is the new head of ACORN and let her know people are behind their work, and suggest they hire a good PR company?

As far as lawsuits, I think there are at least two of the workers who have clear case against these two operatives. One is Juan Carlos Vera - see mzmolly's OP on his statements as to what really happened when they video-taped him and the video supports his claims. They're not very smart, just arrogant so suing them should not be too difficult. However, I don't think ACORN should do it, I think the individuals who have been harmed should.

Also, the Baltimore State Attorney has issued a statement saying they may have violated laws in her state and she is considering an investigation. I think we ought to email her and give her support as she is under assault from the right. I posted the info in my OP now on the first page, I think.

[suffragette]

8. Exactly!

Release ALL the unedited tapes now.

[spanone]

9. yep, video can be edited to make anyone say anything at anytime

[Whisp]

15. I see what you mean, for example...

one of the worst ones that I saw, and the only one (and I may not recall entirely) was an ACORN employee seemingly giving advice on how to get young girls from central america in as sex workers.
Now it could very well been asked of her examples of what she has come across in the past (and of course this does not make it into the final version) and relating that story to them but instead it ends up sounding like she is giving the suggestions.

I can't believe how so many so called good democrats are buckling under so easily on this issue without further investigation. it's sickening espcially knowing who that slimeball is and who he works for.

shame on you

[Chulanowa]

20. Because democrats tend to be invertibrates under stress

So many are absolutely terrified of the labels that Republicans throw around that they'll bend over as far as they can to avoid them. so many liberals just don't want to make waves. Nobody seems to be willing to take a clear stand of "No, fuck you, you Palin-voting dumbasses"

[spanone]

21. i'm 100% for an investigation. video can be edited. shame on you.

[NoGOPZone]

10. Evidently, he prefers the Diebold method of getting politicians elected single-handedly nt

[Zoeisright]

13. +1

[sam sarrha]

11. lets have the Acorn workers file Disclosure documents on the video, sue for slander, then have Acorn

go after them for slander till he's broke..

[samsingh]

19. and our leaders voted against ACORN

[robinlynne]

35. That is the MOST DISGUSTING part of all!!!!! Why won't they go after Karl ROve?

[butterfly77]

29. They also went after them because ..

they didn't want them to find a lot of people during the census. THey like it just the way it is.

[robinlynne]

34. lets' see ACORN false voter registration-0. GOP-up to 60%

[dem mba]

37. file under O for Obvious

no way an organization that gets a paltry $5M a year in funding could get so much ire from the right unless they were effective.

[mzmolly]

39. "O'Keefe needs to release all unedited versions of his tapes. All of them..."

Absolutely!!! :kick: