Neil Armstrong not worthy of Texas Textbooks?

[ThoughtCriminal]

Picked this up via the Bad Astronomy Blog (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/)

http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archives/2009/09/neil_armstrong_isnt_worthy_of_texas_textbooks.html

"As part of the process a Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills review team composed of parents and teachers has suggested removing Neil Armstrong from a "science strand" in a 5th grade social studies book. Effectively this would remove the mention of Armstrong has a figure of historical significance from 5th grade textbooks."
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"The team said they made this proposal because he was not a scientist."
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"By the way, Armstrong arguably was a scientist. He received an aeronautical engineering from Purdue University, and a Master of Science degree in aerospace engineering from the University of Southern California. He later was a professor of aerospace engineering at the University of Cincinnati."

[BlooInBloo]

1. A fine example of why the education degree needs to be eliminated.

EDIT: And I'm stealing their pic.

[LWolf]

32. What education degree are you referring to?

And what connection are you making from that degree to what appears in commercial text books?

[Strong Atheist]

2. What do you expect from Texas education? Sense?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x218921

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=214&topic_id=209916

[waiting for hope]

3. Perhaps it's their way of denying we ever went

into space ... can't have those little fifth graders dreaming about becoming an astronaut .. ;)

[TxRider]

35. Perhaps he is is in 6th grade books, not everything can be in one book.

I tend to hate sensationalist stoies like this because they usually aren't very trustworthy.

[Confusious]

46. Don't want those millions and millions

Of people they use and throw away getting any ideas about escape!

[Ian David]

4. Problem is Texas textbook standards fuck-up textbooks for kids who live in the rest of the country.

Rather than improve their own educational standards, Texas seems determined to drag the rest of us down to their own level.

And if you live in Texas, and you have NOT circulated a petition to run for your local or state school board, or at least volunteered for a Progressive candidate running for that position then keep your complaints of "Texas Bashing" to your own damn self. If you won't lift a finger to fix the problem, then shut the fuck up when people complain about it.

Anyone here who IS on their local school board in Texas can tell me to go fuck myself, and I won't complain.

In fact, I'll even take detailed instructions from you on how I can try to do it.

[TxRider]

40. Yup Texas drives content of school books nationaly to a significant degree

[Gulftrout]

53. Problem is

The rest of the country elected our village idiot (twice!!). Y'all don't look too smart. Look at your own state, probly in the red column for bushie boy.

[appamado amata padam]

5. This is petty, and dumb,

and a waste of time and money. Standard Repuke idiocy.

[ThoughtCriminal]

6. Oh it gets better - they want to add Newt and Rush

Found this in the comments at Bad Astronomy. Apparently, too many historical liberals.

http://blog.taragana.com/n/rosa-parks-ben-franklin-rush-limbaugh-texas-may-change-must-know-figures-for-students-170537/

"Some of the proposed changes in the social studies standards, known as the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills, include referring to the United States as a republic instead of a democracy and requiring students to be able to identify prominent conservatives such as former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and Eagle Forum president Phyllis Schlafly."

[Hannah Bell]

27. phyllis fucking schlafly? isn't the vampire bitch dead yet?

feminists, spare me. i'm female, she's a vampire bitch.

[Confusious]

52. Zeig heil y'all

those two won't be remembered a day beyond their deaths, unless they create the fourth reich

[chknltl]

7. Wouldn't it be easier to educate Sarah Palin???

There has got to be a better way to make her look smarter than the 5th graders on that Jeff Foxworthy show.

[provis99]

8. Armstrong must accept the reality of Evolution

That would be enough to have these primitives on the Texas school board eliminate him from textbooks.

[yodoobo]

9. In 1,000 years. There will be 3 people remembered from this era

Neil Armstrong
Albert Einstein
Hitler

[BolivarianHero]

10. Marx and Lenin will be remembered...

Perhaps Stalin too...Sadly, Trotsky will likely not be even though he is possibly the most intelligent of the four.

[gopiscrap]

19. and Franklin D Roosevelt

John F Kennedy and Lee harvy Oswald and Charles Manson

[Xithras]

29. Highly improbable.

On the scale of 1000 years, it's not likely that even the U.S. will still be around. Only a few nations have lasted that long, and they tended to have a unifying culture or geographic boundaries to help hold them together (China, Japan). The U.S. has neither.

Roosevelt and Kennedy are only important in reference to American history and culture. When the U.S. ceases to exist, their importance diminishes dramatically. As for Oswald and Manson, their importance is unlikely to outlast the people who lived at the same time as them. 50 years from now, I doubt that anyone but crime history geeks will be able to tell you what Manson did. 150 years from now, even they won't pay much attention to him. As for Oswald...how many American's can name the people who killed McKinley and Garfield nowadays? Lincoln's assassin is remembered because of that particular assasins connection to the Civil War, but even in that case your average person knows little about him other than his name.

[gopiscrap]

41. I know the names of both McKinley and Garfields assasin

and I know the name of Roosevelt's, Truman's, Ford's and Reagan's attempted assasinators

[Confusious]

49. Rome

How many cultures and horrible geographic boundaries did they have?

They lasted for 1,000 years, then another 1,000 for the Byzantine Empire ( A name we gave them, they would have said they were Roman)

[Confusious]

47. It's test time!

Name 5 people from 1,000 years ago. 950AD-1050AD

P.S. Without looking it up. I can name 3, but I'm a history buff.

[onehandle]

11. Agreed. nt

[virgogal]

12. And Michael Jackson. :-)

[Confusious]

48. Sorry, entertainers don't have a good shelf life

Name 5 movie actors from the 1920's, 30's, 40's, 50's

Now name 5 actors from 1890.

[grantcart]

18. well you will probably have to add either Elvis or the Beatles to the list

[imdjh]

43. A thousand years from now? What was the #1 hit on the UK chart in 1009?

[Confusious]

50. I think they were all Getting over the craziness of

Y1K

[yodoobo]

45. Only if they morph into a religion

I'd say elvis has a 50/50 shot.

[TxRider]

34. You don't think Obama will be remembered?

First black president and all?

[imdjh]

42. genghis khan, thomas edison, and bill gates

[Confusious]

51. This era

20th, 21st

[imdjh]

54. In a thousand years, "this era" will be huge.

Right now we break it out into The Middle Ages, The Renaissance, the Colonial Period, the Industrial Revolution, last century, this century..... but in a 1000 years, the last 1000 years will be an event studied in the macro in high school, and the particulars will be college History major stuff.

If the trend continues as it has- the importance of what happens in coming centuries will jam previous centuries together. The Civil Rights Movement will be as much a footnote to the stupidity of our descendants' ancestors as Roman slavery was to us, and will bother them about as much. Going to the moon will be about as significant as the first known ship crossing the Atlantic. Quick- Who was the first RECORDED visitor to the Americas? What was the name of his ship?

[xocet]

13. FYI: Apollo 11 Science...

Here is a link to a description of the research performed by the crew of Apollo 11:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/missions/apollo/apollo_11/experiments/

[AwakeAtLast]

14. Evidently they are not rocket scientists

Ba-dump bump. <clash>

Seriously though, wouldn't he be the definition of 'rocket scientist'? :shrug:

[ThoughtCriminal]

15. Years ago I gave my dad a button that read...

"Yes, as a matter of fact, I am a Rocket Scientist!"

He was a an engineer (physicist) for NASA and designed instrumentation for the Saturn rockets. He qualified.

[stuball111]

16. "Texas Essential Knowledge and Skill?

Isn't that a kind of oxymoron? I thought all you needed to know there was crude oil, cow shit, and country music! Makin em dummer by the minute down there!:wtf:

[HappyCynic]

17. Nothing wrong with that...

After all, isn't he just a guy who took a long trip to play a round of golf? :sarcasm:

[TicketyBoo]

24. Nope. That was Alan Shepard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZLl3XwlAIE

[HappyCynic]

28. My mistake...

I guess that means Neil Armstrong went out for even less... (do I need :sarcasm:?)

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Does that mean I will have to teach my nephews

about the moon shot?

Oh goes without saying...

there are days

:banghead:

[Fumesucker]

21. All *real* Texans know the Moon landings were fake..

And professional wrestling is real.

Yes, it's :sarcasm:

[TheKentuckian]

22. and of course you have nutjob Republicans pretending its "the socialists" behind dumbing down

the schools.

"The Board of Education is living proof that we came from monkeys. While they have not evolved above the primate stage the rest of the world has and is sweeping past us, as humans did with the Neanderthals (who look intelligent compared to the Board of Education). The Board of Education is exactly the reason we need a voucher system. The deliberate attempt to dummy down our children's education is Orwellian at best, Stalinist at its worst. Its socialist anti- Americanism, anti-children, anti education takes socialism to new heights that even Lenin could not fault it. The Board of Education's attitude makes makes Obama's Medical plan look down right capitalistic. If the Board of Education was a movie back in the 70's it would be ruled as having no social redeeming value."

Mad as a fucking hatter!!! What in the world does socialism have to do with this stupid curriculum? They haven't the slightest clue of what they are talking about.

SOCIALISM IS NOT ANOTHER WORD FOR EVIL OR WRONG!!!!

Grrrr!!!!!!!!!

[Shallah Kali]

23. TX Board Of Ed Member: Minorities Must Be Thankful To 'The Majority' For Giving Them Rights!

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/tx_board_ed_member_minorities_be_thankful.php

'Expert' Christian Nationalist History Revisionist David Barton Brings Religio-Historical Road Show To TX Board Of Ed Hearing
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/barton_brings_religio-historial_road_show_to_tx_bo.php

Chris Rodda: Don't Mess with me, David Barton
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-rodda/dont-mess-with-me-david-b_b_177687.html

Could Texas' Gingrich-Based High School History Curriculum Go National?
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/could_texas_gingrich_based_curriculum_go_national.php

The GOP-controlled State Board of Education is working on a new set of statewide textbook standards for, among other subjects, U.S. History Studies Since Reconstruction. And it turns out what the board decides may end up having implications far beyond the Lone Star State.

The first draft of the standards, released at the end of July, is a doozy. It lays out a kind of Human Events version of U.S. history.

Approved textbooks, the standards say, must teach the Texan student to "identify significant conservative advocacy organizations and individuals, such as Newt Gingrich, Phyllis Schlafly, and the Moral Majority." No analogous liberal figures or groups are required, prompting protests from some legislators and committee members. (Read an excerpt here http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/documents/2009/09/excerpt-of-proposed-texas-us-history-textbook-standards.php?page=1And "one member" deemed a section on "effective leadership" a perfect place to bring to students' attention Charlton Heston's celebrated (among right-wingers) culture war speech.

Here's what makes this a national story: what happens in Texas doesn't stay in Texas, says Diane Ravitch, professor of education at NYU.

That's because Texas is one of the two states with the largest student enrollments, along with California. "The publishers vie to get their books adopted for them, and the changes that are inserted to please Texas and California are then part of the textbooks made available to every other state," says Ravitch, who wrote a book about the politics of textbooks.

Rick Hess of the American Enterprise Institute explains it as a simple economic calculation by the big textbook publishers. "Publishers are generally reticent to run two different versions of a textbook," he says. "You can imagine the headache the expense the logistics, the storage, all of it."

)

snip

[BlooInBloo]

30. That was amazing, wasn't it?

[Shallah Kali]

31. It is mind blowing that he wants gratitude for not oppressing us as much as we used to be

can I just grovel or must I kiss his feet in thanks for granting women the right to vote? :sarcasm:

[ProfessorGAC]

33. Wow!

Kind of depressing. Things just get dumber and dumber.
GAC

[Shallah Kali]

36. They have been like this for decades, it's just more of 'em are acting out publically

instead of keeping their beliefs and pride in their deliberate ignorance more private. They are the reason school boards have to fight again and again to teach accurate science instead of creationism and real history instead of pseudohistoric 'Christian' nationalism.

see Chris Rodda's site here for her book Liars for Jesus w/links to many articles on religiousright efforts to alter history taught in schools: http://www.liarsforjesus.com/

[ProfessorGAC]

37. I've Seen That Site

Thanks. But, i'll stand by my statement that we're getting stupider as a people, in general. I think it comes from your idea that it's now ok to be proud of being stupid.
GAC

[Shallah Kali]

38. I agree that being proud of lack of knowledge has greatly grown

which is laughably sad and scary at the same time. bush is a prime example heaven help us :( I remember people saying they would rather have uninformed, unthinking w. instead of a wonk like Gore in charge because he was like them. :crazy:

[ProfessorGAC]

39. Then We Completely Agree

Your last post was exactly what i meant by "getting stupider". "I'm stupid so i want a stupid president. Then i can be proud, instead of ashamed, to be stupid."

So, we're really agreeing completely!

Have a safe day.
GAC

[Ken Burch]

25. I thought it was gonna be because they knew the moon landing was faked

:sarcasm:

Right-wingers are often "moon truthers", aren't they?

[bleever]

26. Until he admits he flew to the moon on a flying dinosaur, he has no credibility

with some folks.

But being liberal, and including all voices, is not the same as deciding to be bound by the need to embrace all views, and that is the way Obama is succeeding, with what seems like the very capable support of his team.

[MisterP]

44. yeah, I mean, what does the Moon Landing have to do with Texas?

not like the astronauts keep in contact with Houston or anything...
this is problematic, not because it will somehow drive down our scientific standing in the world, or because it'll make kids less likely to see science as a religion that must be obeyed unconditionally, or because we won't mine the Moon as fast as we should, or because it'll make people more doubtful of Pfizer or radiocarbon dating, or because it's "bad science"
it's because it's crapola, that's what: it's not an alternative viewpoint, but an outright erasure of fact (with a lower case F, of course)
hence, postmodernism, mysticism--even astrology--don't threaten science per se--but creationism does, because it outright denies or downgrades genetic sequencing, much of biology, and the entirety of geology. Saying that science doesn't apply to religion, or that psychology and neurology are irreconcilable, or that operational materialism in the lab doesn't imply philosophical materialism, or even that the planets are Neoplatonic divine archetypes whose influences transform as they influence matter (thanks for the definition, CS Lewis) isn't quite the same. (not to mention, of course, that science often does look like a giant academic catfight)

[derby378]

55. Armstrong had the guts to make the flight with Aldrin and Collins

And my fellow Texas question his inclusion in the 5th grade curriculum because he was not a "scientist?"

If I remember correctly, a high school dropout became one of the leading archaeologists in the US and one of the luminaries of the Nation Geographic board of directors. He didn't have a diploma, but he proved his chops to the scientific community in a big way.

One of these days, maybe I should run for SBOE so that there's at least one sane voice in the debacle.