Why not allow foreign health insurers to enter our market as a vehicle to further drive down costs?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

It's all about competition and the free markets, right?

Germany, Sweden and the Netherlands have been held out as example of places where a public/private insurance synergy has worked successfully. So let's allow insurers from those countries, who already have a track record, into our health insurance marketplace. They have proven that they are able to provide a less expensive product with equal or better outcomes in their countries.

I don't see this as being any different than the automobile market, especially since the "uniquely American model" of healthcare treats it as a commodity rather than a right. American insurance companies need to meet the international challenge or die as a result. They will probably discover to their chagrin that the European companies do not siphon off excessive amounts of profits to their upper executives while they allow consumers to die for lack of treatment. Quel Horreur!!!

[Vinca]

1. Man the battle stations. K Street will hire thousands of new lobbyists

just at your suggestion. Nothing will get between big insurance and its obscene profit.

[FormerDittoHead]

2. OUCH! I LIKE it! PLEASE don't think outside "the box"! ;-) n/t

[dipsydoodle]

3. It's not quite the same

Yes - in the UK the NHS runs alongside the private insurers and they use each other's facilities. The original private insurer here was AMI - think so anyway and that is/was an American Company anyway.

The backup use of private insurers here differs from the USA. The attraction for some is better hospital accomodation and faster treatment on occassions. Not sure exactly what the situation is elsewhere in Europe but in some of the countries private insurers are simply not allowed to make a profit as far as I'm aware - just breakeven.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

4. The UK and NHS is kind of its own thing

No one anywhere as part of this discussion ( as far as I am aware)is talking about setting up anything like the NHS in the UK, so the comparison just isn't there. I guess our VA hospital system would be the closest thing we have in the US to the NHS. But most confine the discussion to Single PAYER, not Single PROVIDER.

I was speaking specifically of the countries I have heard cited for having private insurers that are highly regulated by their countries - Sweden, Germany and the Netherlands.

The US just does not have the guts or morality to regulate health insurance like other countries do. Profit is more important than the welfare (both physical and fiscal) of the populace.

[endarkenment]

5. Germany: 92% or more are covered by the 'public option'.

Approximately 92% of the population is covered by a 'Statutory Health Insurance' plan, which provides a standardized level of coverage through any one of approximately 1100 public or private sickness funds. Standard insurance is funded by a combination of employee contributions, employer contributions and government subsidies on a scale determined by income level. Higher income workers sometimes choose to pay a tax and opt out of the standard plan, in favor of 'private' insurance. The latter's premiums are not linked to income level but instead to health status.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care#Germany

The public option has one standardized level of coverage and is funded by 'mandates' on employers, employees, and government subsidies determined by income levels. There is no 'individual mandate' that puts the burden solely on the individual to purchase private insurance.

Almost everyone is in the 'public' option but it seems that despite all the whining here in our kleptocratic freemarket dystopia, public and private insurance plans coexist within this framework and have since 1883.

The German model would be a good starting point for a system here that was not 'single payer' but did provide excellent universal care with normal costs and room for private insurance companies (that are not simply raping captured consumers for every dollar they can extract) to continue to exist.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

8. Sounds good to me in almost all regards. nt

[endarkenment]

6. I see no evidence of any private insurance system in Sweden,

All the links I have indicate that Sweden has a single payer universal system funded by taxes collected at the local level as determined by regional entities called "county councils".

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

7. Article from the Canadian Medical Association Journal about Sweden's growing private sector

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/179/2/129
Public–private health care delivery becoming the norm in Sweden
Christopher Mason
Stockholm, Sweden
**********************************************************************************************************************************

You are correct about the increasing private sector in Sweden is coming from private providers, not private insurance, so I do stand corrected.

I had read that Sweden was country that was exploring alternatives to strictly public health and was adding a private component which I misinterpreted to mean insurance, not care. Silly me, I should have known the Swedes would be focused on care itself and not insurance.

[Fla_Democrat]

9. Why not just start our own?

Why hasn't some very well connected person, or group of like minded people formed an insurance company to compete? If profits are what is jacking up the prices, surely a company based on reasonable profits could, if not corner the market, compete to a point where the others had to cut profits or loose business.

What could be better than "Wal-marting" their asses into bankruptcy? :shrug:

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

10. I have to think that the intial capitalization of any insurance provider would be

pretty steep, almost insurmountable. It is true that a vacuum exists and you would expect someone to rush in to fill the void, but notice how no one has?

There are lots of crap "I can't Believe It's Not Health Insurance" schemes out there that prey on individuals and small businesses - because you always want to get your health insurance from a handlettered sign on a telephone pole!

[Fla_Democrat]

13. I find it hard to believe

that there isn't enough capital in the progressive movement to make it happen. I'm not talking about everyone here sending in $5 to get it up and running,(who would buy insurance from DUI anyway, maybe if we had a better name... :shrug: ) but surely there are enough like minded people with the funds to get it going. Walmart started as one small store. People didn't go to sleep one day and the next morning FedEx trucks were all over the highway. Hell, set up one company, in one state, and point to it as a perfect example. I can see the ad now...

Hi, I'm Michael Moore*, after filming the documentary, Sicko, I looked for a company that had the right idea about how insurance should be run. I found that company, PHI, Progressive Health Insurance (have a classy symbol on the screen). These are not some out of touch suits, but a company built on the idea that people should never take a back seat to profits. So, it you're like me, sick to death of seeing people sick to death, why not give them a call at 1-555-GET-WELL

*Not sure if he would invest/endorse the company.. but it would be a powerful gesture if he did.

[WeCanWorkItOut]

11. And while we're at it, we could add some competition for hospitals and doctors.

The problem is that it's not just the insurance companies causing the excess costs.
It's also the profits of hospitals, doctors, imaging centers, pharmaceutical companies,
all of whom benefit from various monopoly powers.

About the salaries, the British Medical Journal was commenting on that
recently(2007):
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/334/7587/236/FIG2

Another reason their costs are lower is, I believe, because they're
much less obese: longer vacations and better lifestyles help.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

12. We also have no means to compare and contrast costs by different providers.

What does hospital x charge for a tylenol? What about Y?

What does a mammogram cost at one clinic as opposed to another?



We are just told what hospital to report to and standby for the bill.

[Hawkowl]

14. Can I buy into Canadian healthcare?

Excellent idea! In fact, I wonder if Canada can force the issue via NAFTA?