Measure C would ban big-box stores

[The Straight Story]

Measure C on the Nov. 3 ballot in Ventura never mentions Wal-Mart by name, but social justice advocates, unions and other proponents began crafting the initiative with one goal in mind: keeping the world’s largest retailer out of town.

The measure, created in response to Wal-Mart’s plans to take over the former Kmart on Victoria Avenue, would ban any new store selling groceries that is larger than 90,000 square feet. A Walmart without groceries, however, would be allowed.

.....


Market studies show a fifth of the 500,000 weekly shoppers at the Walmart in Oxnard live in Ventura.

“There is a segment of our community that really needs the lower prices,” said Ventura mobile home resident Lorraine Foster.

Foster, 86, said she’s “always been pro-union” and does not favor Wal-Mart, but grocery price competition would benefit cash-strapped families. “I can’t see Wal-Mart being that destructive. It will bring people into our community. Why should they go to Oxnard to shop if they can shop along Victoria?”

http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2009/sep/21/measure-c-would-ban-big-box-stores/

[Renew Deal]

1. That's dumb

and a bad move.

[mike_c]

7. I disagree-- we did this in my area and it was a smart move...

...that likely saved lots of local businesses.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

19. what happens when the local businesses suck more?

Where I live most of the small local businesses wouldn't be much of a loss,

[mike_c]

22. well then....

YMMV

[lame54]

2. Do not let the devil in

[tjwash]

3. That would suprise me if Ventura passed this. Then again I wouldn't be if they didn't.

Ventura is awesome and an enigma at the same time...they have a really strong arts community and a lot of outspoken libs...but at the same time they are also an ultra conservative stronghold, and have an official chapter of the hells angels there.

Elections and politics are always entertaining to watch there.

[Tikki]

5. A lot has to do with where Scrawl*Mart wanted to locate their store....

Busy over crowded thoroughfare in Ventura...but, Wal*Mart was adamant about the
location....a Trader Joe's nearby, I believe.

I hope the people of Ventura do pass that ordinance.


Tikki

[ReverendDeuce]

4. One of the things I learned after moving to California...

I used to be vehemently anti-Wal-Mart when I lived in the midwest. That was a year ago.

Now, I will happily drive an hour to do shopping at a Wal-Mart.

Why? Because the local grocery store, the "mom and pop" joint, wants $7.99 for a box of cereal, $8.99/lb for ground beef, $2.99 for two-liters of soda, $6+ for a gallon of milk, eggs are $6/dozen... it's fucking robbery! And it's the same brands! We're not talking about locally grown/produced stuff. It's all the same!

I go to Wal-Mart, my grocery bills are cut in half. It only costs $5 in gas for the round trip and $4 for the bridge toll. And I get to see San Francisco and Napa Valley on the drive...

[tjwash]

6. Uh...yeah. 6 bucks a dozen. Sure.

30 seconds on google and I found Lucerne Grade A / Aa Large Eggs - 18 Count at Vons for $2.59, and a dozen eggs is $1.99 at Kiels which is walking distance from my house.

So...how much is Walmart paying you to spam message boards with this bullshit?

[Atman]

8. I agree...the prices quoted are absurd.

I live in CT, which isn't exactly a poor state. There was a mom & pop "gourmet" grocery within walking distance of our house, with an old-fashioned butcher shop and homemade everythings. And even here, prices never approaced $6 for eggs or a gallon of milk. The post is bullshit.

.

[Jim Sagle]

11. I dunno, but the DLC pays its hogwash dispensers five bucks an hour.

It must be true, I read it on the Internet. ;)

[mike_c]

9. I don't buy that at all....

I live in norcal and shop at local supermarkets ranging from "mom-and-pops" to co-ops to national/regional retail chains and Costco. I have no need whatsoever for Walmart. My community successfully kept one out, much as Ventura is trying to do. Now, the nearest Walmarts are all about three hours driving distance away. That's the way I like it!

[blondeatlast]

10. Not to mention the handy dandy kickback you got for that tripe of a reply. nt

[TahitiNut]

13. The "logic" demonstrated in your post befits a Wal*Mart shopper.

Enjoy. :eyes:

I'm familiar with San Carlos (having lived there for a while) and the shopping nearby ... and find the demonization of a selected "mom and pop" store as a threadbare rationale for an excursion to a distant Wal*Mart as borderline insane.

[ReverendDeuce]

14. I think it's highly logical...

The rationalization is that I save $50-$75 by driving an hour to Wal-Mart. Quite logical.

If Foodville/Bianchini's only wants to cater to the most affluent who waddle down from Woodside, then that's their choice. Perhaps that business scales well for them. If it does, good for them! Free market.

[roody]

32. Did you factor in the gas and car wear?

[grantcart]

17. and how many Costco's did you pass to get to the Walmart Store?

[diane in sf]

26. Why don't you go to Costco or TJs? They treat their employees well and have good prices.

[ReverendDeuce]

31. I do shop a LOT at Trader Joe's... great store!

They just don't sell name brand stuff.

No harm in that -- I buy a good 50% of my groceries from there because many times TJ's is cheaper than Wal-Mart for "staple" items such as fruits, vegetables, condiments, etc.

But sometimes, I really want Breyer's ice cream, or diet Pepsi, or a particular brand of marinade that TJ's doesn't have a good "version" of.

Reall, TJ's *is* the most awesome grocery store ever. Two-buck Chuck rocks my world!

Costco sells mostly bulk and I don't want to pay a membership.

[xchrom]

12. if you want to save better paying jobs, have a community economic diversity,

save on the visual blight that a big box is -- this is what you have to do.

[TwilightGardener]

15. What I always think is funny, in the WalMart demonization, is that

the real blame for the success of Wally World lies with consumers. In fact, it lies primarily with the poor, the working class, and middle-income consumers, the very folks that all of DU pretends to champion. Apparently, they're just too weak and stupid to realize they are supposed to forego affordability and convenience in order to keep some sort of idealized "mom and pop" or regional-chain commerce alive. Because that benefits them somehow, in the abstract--to pay more for the same shit. So fucking condescending, this notion that we have to save consumers from themselves.

[TxRider]

16. Walmart prices aren't much lower these days.

The low prices tend to wane after competition is driven out.

[TwilightGardener]

18. Really? Because I just picked up some groceries at Wally World

last night, and I didn't notice suddenly higher prices. In fact, got some good deals.

[Ron Green]

20. If you don't understand the price everybody is paying when you "save money"

by buying at Wal*Mart, maybe you deserve some of the scorn from which you're defending poor people who shop there.

It's about a lot more than saving money on your own grocery bill.

[TwilightGardener]

21. LOL! You just proved my point. For most low and average-income folks,

it IS all about saving money on the grocery bill. Or it's about convenience and location (in my case). So, you must be terribly frustrated with all the poor and middle class folks who are so selfish and greedy as to ignore your ideals in their quest for more groceries for less money.

[Ron Green]

25. And you just proved MY point, which is that if people don't care about

the larger issue (supporting local businesses and rejecting the Wal*Mart model), they get what they get, which is a race to the bottom in jobs, quality of goods and economic diversity. Your attitude is "I care more about my cheaper groceries than I do about the right thing for our communities."

I'm not wealthy person, but I'll never support Wal*Mart because of what I know about the way they operate and how harmful they are to our culture.

[TwilightGardener]

27. Again, your real beef isn't with WalMart. It's with people who choose to shop there.

If people didn't like them, if people were unhappy with what they offered, they'd go out of business. The Great Ignorant Unwashed Masses who don't know any better and think being able to feed their families for less is a GOOD thing, and don't realize they're supporting a "model" you don't approve of. So you can be high and mighty and smug, because you're better than that, right?

[Ron Green]

28. My beef is with BOTH Wal*Mart and those who shop there. It's the same as with

working people who vote against their own economic interests. Wal*Mart shoppers have their own reasons for going there, but they don't agree with me that the desire to save money on stuff I may or may not need is not as important as the total economic and social costs everyone pays when Wal*Mart flourishes.

[TwilightGardener]

29. How is it that people are voting against their own economic interests

by paying less for goods? How do less-successful stores who sell those same goods for higher prices fundamentally benefit the low-wage populace? Are they necessarily better in terms of wages, benefits, quality of products offered, community and environmental responsibility--simply by virtue of being NOT-WAL-MART?

[Ron Green]

30. They're not necessarily better in all those things simply by not being Wal*Mart,

but the business model of local ownership, personal service and community connection (not the phony corporate-controlled kind of involvement) is more likely to sustain communities in which people care for each other than the big-box model, controlled from a central office half a continent away, will do.

Higher prices at the "less successful" stores (and they're not always that much higher) pay for some very significant if elusive qualities of life in a community. True competition among independent stores was destroyed by Wal*Mart's predatory model, first in small towns in the South and now world-wide. It's been well documented how, while waving the American flag, they squeezed suppliers to the breaking point and eventually built their own suppliers in China.

I'm not saying that every mom-and-pop operation deserved, or deserves, to be protected from a store with lower prices and/or better service. What I'm saying is that shoppers have been penny wise and pound foolish to allow this monster to move in on the outskirts, kill their downtown, and through the miracle of the American Shopping Addiction make them even less aware than they already were.

[Captain Hilts]

23. My firm did a TON of polling for WalMart in Calif. I'll bet they're all over this. nt

[Throd]

24. They should open one in Ojai.