Houston Chronicle: Laredo man dies after police use Taser on him

[Heidi]

Sept. 22, 2009, 10:18PM

LAREDO, Texas — Three Laredo police officers are on administrative duty pending investigation of the death of a man they shocked with a Taser gun.

Police spokesman Alberto Escobedo says the three officers answered a pre-dawn criminal mischief report Monday and confronted 44-year-old Richard Battistata. That's after the man allegedly had broken a bedroom window and entered an apartment.

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[TexasObserver]

1. Recommend. And Thank You for keeping this important topic well covered here.

Any one of us in America can run afoul of law enforcement, and we can be wrong simply by being confused, by not hearing something, but not understanding what we've stumbled into. We are each one bad cop away from being tasered for nothing.

[anigbrowl]

3. not understanding you've stumbled into someone else's bedroom?

This is one of the few cases where use seems like it might be justified. I'm gonna wait for fuller details, but if the guy had broken into someone's house and then reacted violently when they arrested him, there might be a case for using a taser. Autopsy will reveal whether he was hit with one taser or multiple ones, whether he had a weak heart or was on drugs etc.

Police department is doing the right thing by taking the officers off the street until it's resolved. And let's face it, people breaking into apartments in the middle of the night is the sort of thing the police are supposed to deal with.

[TexasObserver]

4. The topic is the dangerous use of tasers by police.

You assume the police acted appropriately. I do not.

[vadawg]

6. i guess since you were there we have to take your word on it,

what you mean you dont know any more than what was reported and already you have decided this was excessive force.

[TexasObserver]

7. That's right, you will.

dawg

[rug]

21. Considering he's dead, excessive force is a fair conclusion.

[anigbrowl]

27. Not so, and here's why

All we know is that the guy was 44 and he died. There's no way to know (for now) whether he was committing a crime or what sort of violent behavior he engaged in, if any. But if he was near his physical limits because of either drug use or a heart condition, a shock could have been fatal. A small number of people die every year from recreational drug use of speed, ecstasy etc. because they over-exert themselves and have a heart attack or similar. It's not always predictable, and there just isn't information here to jump to conclusions yet.

[rug]

33. That's a lot of assumptions to lay besides a corpse.

[anigbrowl]

34. There are no assumptions at all

I don't even assume he was committing a crime, I just point to the possibility that his own physical condition could have been an unpredictable factor in his death - which is why I'm waiting to see the autopsy and whatever other information comes out.

[rug]

35. I'm open to facts. The one fact now is that he's dead.

Everything else is speculation. Apologists are best when they presebt facts, not possibilities.

[anigbrowl]

36. This is no different from what I said, and I am not being an apologist.

M message above stated 'All we know is that the guy was 44 and he died.' I clearly separated fact and speculation, unlike you when you drew your conclusion that the fact of his death proved excessive force. You have zero grounds for calling me an apologist, as I have not suggested anywhere that the police were justified or even that they should be given the benefit of the doubt. The only argument I have made is that there is insufficient information available right now to draw a conclusion.

[anigbrowl]

24. I make no such assumption. I said it *might* be the case. Twice. nt

[TexasObserver]

28. You should know that *might* doesn't make *right*

You MIGHT be using the word to mean "perhaps," and you MIGHT not be.

[anigbrowl]

31. Ridiculous. In the context I used it, it can only mean 'perhaps'. You're just being silly now.

[vadawg]

5. way i look at it, if anyone breaks into someones bedroom then you got to expect a reaction from the

homeowner and the police, im surprised the homeowner didnt fill him full of lead, if it was my house theres no doubt i would have shot him, i think this story has a lot more to break and ill wait for the evidence before i go all batshit crazy...

[TexasObserver]

8. that's because shooting people is your default position

[vadawg]

9. honestly 100% if you break into my home especially at night

then i am 100% going to shoot you, this is my default position, same as if you draw a gun on me then 100% i am going to shoot you, if you pull a knife on me then 100% i am going to shoot you, these are all default positions and im very happy with them..

[TexasObserver]

10. Here's the big problem with your "shoot first" approach.

Unlike you, I don't assume the person is

*a criminal
*not retarded
*not lost
*not drunk
*not impaired
*not suffering from a diabetic episode
*not disoriented
*not mistakenly entered the wrong place

Of all people, you should know there are many reasons a person can be in the wrong place at night and not be there with malevolent intent. You need to learn to exercise more restraint. Don't be so damn trigger happy.

[vadawg]

11. heres the problem with your approach

unlike you i dont assume a person isnt

a gang banger coming after me
a rapist
a house invader
a kidnapper

etc etc etc

like most people i assume if you break a window and climb into my house then you are up to no good, unlike you i cant afford to take the chance that the guy standing there is unarmed and not there for the specific reason of killing me or my family so therefore 100% i am going to shoot first and then call the sheriffs dept to come clean up the mess and take the report...

[Heidi]

12. How many times have you or your famly been killed by intruders?

I'm guessing "zero," in which case I'd like to know whether you believe 1) that's because you're armed; or 2) because that sort of thing just doesn't happen very often.

i cant afford to take the chance that the guy standing there is unarmed and not there for the specific reason of killing me or my family

[vadawg]

13. main reason is that the guys who would love to do it dont know were i live

though i understand that could change someday so therefore we know it could happen and are always aware of it. Just because you dont see the worst of humanity dosent mean it isnt out there.

[Heidi]

14. Who on earth would love to harm you in particular, and why?

And for the record, you shouldn't make assumptions about what I do or do not see.

[vadawg]

15. wasnt stating about you in particular, just in general people dont see the crap thats out there

[vadawg]

16. i got the same issue a lot of gang guys have and that is being greenlighted

i think at the moment we have 2 or 3 greenlights and i have two other personal watches...

[DainBramaged]

26. The gun huggers think the world is after them and them only

remember that and you'll understand what you are dealing with.....

[anigbrowl]

29. Well, breaking and entering via a window is usually a bad sign

I don't keep a gun or worry particularly about it, but on the other hand I've experienced several muggings and attacks over the years. If someone enters my home by breaking a bedroom window, I'm going to spend much time thinking about it - odds are strongly in favor of them having criminal intent. The non-criminal possibilities you mention are valid possibilities, but unlikely ones.

Now, someone shows up on the doorstep fumbling with a key that doesn't fit, I'm willing to be more open-minded.

[tblue]

2. Horrible! Tasers are cruel and unusual. They need to go. nt

[lostnfound]

17. Police didn't make death public for 24 hours

The media was actually told that he was in 'serious condition' 4 hours after he had died.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/Man_dies_after_Taser_shock_from_Laredo_police.html

LAREDO — A Laredo man died before dawn Monday after a police officer used a Taser on him, but the death was not made public until more than 24 hours later despite repeated requests for information.

The media were initially told at 8:45 a.m. Monday that the man had been transported by EMS in “serious condition” to Doctors Hospital. At that point, however, Richard Battistata had been dead for four hours.
...

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[asdjrocky]

19. No one will do anything about this because

a taser in a pigs hand makes him/her a happy boy/girl. It's their favorite toy. No kidding.

It allows them to be cowards. Allows them to never have to get in there and mix it up. And trust me, pigs love to tase, they joke about it and some of them actually look forward to it. I know a guy who called it a remote control for his stick. Do you see what I'm saying here? We've given some of the most authoritarian people in the world a legal way to torture and they carry it around on their belt.

What could go wrong?

In just two days I've seen an 81 year old man tased, a 76 year old man, who walks with a cane, tased, and now this.

[Heidi]

20. Don't forget the guy with no legs who was Tased by Merced (Calif.) police.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6603571&mesg_id=6603571

Plus, other DU threads on this topic:
Modesto Bee: Stanislaus County inmate hit by Taser dies (third Taser death at jail in 5 months)
Report: Deputy let Disney guard stun another with Taser (Florida)
Winston-Salem Journal: Local police to track details of Taser death (North Carolina)
Houston Chronicle: Texas man's Taser death ruled homicide
Durango Herald: Group wants police to give up Tasers (New Mexico)

[asdjrocky]

22. And this from just yesterday...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6606087&mesg_id=6606087

I've know cops all my life, personally and let's say business as well, and I've found it's a job that attracts the worse kind of people. I've watched cops celebrate a good tasing too many times over beers after work. The first guy to tase always gets drinks bought for him and they all laugh as they take turns imitating the person being tased.

I've seen this happen. I've seen people go to jail for doing nothing. I've seen people nearly beaten to death by police. I've seen too much.

[anigbrowl]

30. Come on, those cases are not comparable

I'm strongly against taser abuse (and I've posted on a few threads about those other incidents you mention). But a guy breaking and entering at 3:50am in the morning is totally different from a guy in a wheelchair or walking with a cane who might have gotten lippy with a cop and been unjustly punished.

I'mnot endorsing the police response in this case, but saying the story needs a lot more detail before conclusions can be drawn. Odds are that someone who broke into a house in the middle of the night is actually a criminal. Like I said above, this is the sort of thing that police are supposed to investigate.

[TxRider]

23. Another link to Story

http://www.pro8news.com/news/60417377.html

http://www.pro8news.com/news/local/60380802.html

[Heidi]

25. First link is clearly biased reporting.

Police did not _have_ to use their Tasers. For whatever reason, they CHOSE to use them. For a newspaper to report, without attribution, that anyone HAD to do ANYTHING is shoddy reporting.

The correct way to report this would have been "This week, officers said ..."

This week, officers had to use them to take control of a situation, but the suspect died.

[WolverineDG]

32. pro 8 news is not a real news source

snicker...they are corporate media hacks who rarely, if ever, get the story right, or tell the whole thing. For real insight on what happened & what´s going on in Laredo, check out www.lasanbe.com & the other Laredo blogs he lists.

dg