I think this has been discussed here before, but who are the two black men in the lynching photo?

[closeupready]

This one:

http://www.worldsfamousphotos.com/the-lynching-of-young-blacks-1930.html

And did they have surviving family who spoke ever spoke about it?

[stuball111]

1. got a link?

[MNDemNY]

2. Edited due to repair of link.

[closeupready]

4. of what, wisdom or what?

;)

[closeupready]

3. Fixed the link

n/t

[riverwalker]

5. Kokomo Indiana Aug 7 1930

I am working on finding the names. They were dragged out of jail and hung by a mob while the police looked the other way. This may be the lynching. I am finding many in 1930. I'll keep looking.

[riverwalker]

6. got the names

Thomas Shipp, age 18, and Abraham Smith age 18.

[closeupready]

14. Isn't that where Ryan White was from?

n/t

[jonnyblitz]

28. yes. nt

[Kalyke]

25. So this didn't happen in the South, then.

Judging by some of the threads I've seen some DUers put up, you'd think the Southern United States is the *ONLY* place left in the entire *WORLD* where racism has ever and does ever occur.

I'm not saying lynchings didn't occur, but to blame an entire region when other regions were doing these awful, disgusting, hellacious things is as bigoted as these lynchers are.

[closeupready]

27. Not disputing your claim that these things happened in places outside the South - they did,

I just want to point out that many parts of southern Indiana, Ohio and Illinois really are southern - drawl, Klan and everything. The Klan, of course, has dissipated, but it's really striking how different, say, Chicago is from Springfield in terms of local culture.

[yurbud]

7. Maybe their relatives had attitude of Emmett Till's mother: showing it hurt racists more than her

That is, exposing the ugliness of their actions to the rest of the country did more harm to the acceptance of racism than the pain she felt on seeing the picture repeatedly--and it probably went a long way toward making her feel like she had the power to do something about her son's death, not just suffer.

[Mosby]

8. Thomas Shipp and Abram Smith

They were lynched in Marion Indiana Aug 7th 1930.

[riverwalker]

9. even more sickening

The mob took souveniers after the lynching. Buttons from their shirts, threads from the clothing.

(I can't link the article, the archives are in PDF)

[riverwalker]

11. story Kokomo Indiana Tribune

August 8 1930

Kokomo Men Sec Gaping Hole
in Stone Wall of Jail and
Mob Victims' Bodies

TEAR GAS BOMBS FUTILE

Chance Spares Life of Third
Colored Lad as Lynchers
Hang Companions.
Havoc and tragedy, charged to
an infuriated mob, greeted the eyes
of those who paid early morning
visits to the city of Marion, Friday.
Grim evidence of the struggles of
the night, in which two colored
men were hanged in the court
house yard, .were still plainy visible.
Although officers from this city
sped to the scene as quickly as possible
after calls for assistance were
received from the sheriff of Grant
county, the mob had accomplished
it's dire purpose before the officers
were well on their way.
Mob Breaks Jail Wall,
Victims of the mob's fury were
Tom Shipp, age 18, and Abram
Smith, age 19, who were arrested
in Marion early Thursday and
charged with having shot to death
Claude Deeter, age 23, of Fairmount
and to have then assaulted Mary
Bali, age 19, of Marion.
Kokomo officers returning from
the scene estimated that 6,000 persons
v/ere in the mob which storm-^
ed the Grant county jail. Desperate
and determined, the mob hewed its
way through the stone' wall of the
jail building despite the'resistance
offered by the sheriff and his officers,
. .
It was reported that in an earlier
attack by a smaller number of persons,
the officers had been successful
in driving them back with the
aid of tear gas bombs but that even
these proved futile as the angry
crowd gathered recruits and again
stormed the stronghold in which
their prey was held.
Tear Gas Bombs Returned.
Tea* gas bombs tossed into the
crowd were said to have been picked
up by members of the mob and
promptly hurled back in the direction
of the officers. With chisels,
one of the large stone blocks in the
wall of the jail was hewed away.
Then other blocks were-tumbled out
until a gaping hole appeared.
Through this the victims were
dragged and taken to the courthouse
yard where they were
hanged..
Ehroute, one of the colored-men
is said to have been beaten so
severely that he is thought to have
been dead before the rope drew
taut about his neck. The other is
( said to have been still alive when
his body was swung into the air
and he is said to have clutched at
the rope with his hands. After this,
officers said the colored man's
hands were tied behind him, a huge
knife thrust through his chest, and
he was hanged'With his companion.
Bodies Loft Hanging Nude.
Bodies of both of the victims
w*re stripped of clothing and left
to hang naked for about three
hours.
Sergeant Oscar Criss and Patrolman
Henry Weichlein of the Kokomo
police department, who left for
Marion as soon as thfey were relieved
from duty here at 4 o'clock
Friday morning, stated .that the
.bodies1 of the two men were still
hanging when they arrived but that
the two were ,cut doSvn at 5:25
o'clock Friday morning. Both
bodies, they said, were
at that time.
Even the grass about) the jail attested
to the fury of the tumult,
they said. Before the arrival of the
mob grass grew

[stranger81]

10. There's a book written about this photo and the lynching that's well worth reading.

It's called Our Town -- by Cynthia Carr. Carr grew up in Marion Indiana, where this lynching took place, and returned there as an adult to investigate the lynching and figure out who was behind it. I couldn't put it down the first time I read it.

[riverwalker]

12. thanks, I have to get that book n/t

[closeupready]

13. Yeah, that sounds fascinating.

I also wonder about the townspeople facing the camera, if they were ever asked about that night, etc.

I'll look for that book, thanks much. :hi:

[riverwalker]

15. "unable to identify" any of the mob

"Prosecuting Attorney Harley
Hardin said this morning that he
alanned no immediate action against
he members of the mob. Thus far,
he said, no one has been Identified
as having taken part in the lynchings.
Lewis Ltndemuth, Marion police
chief, said none of his men had
been able to identify any one connected
with the lynchings"

[Treo]

24. interestingly enough

There appears to be at least on black person in the mob right in front of the trees back to the camera

ETA He's standing right behind the guy pointing at the bodies

[Kaylee]

30. Maybe he is the third guy the mob intended to lynch....

see post #11.

[LeftinOH]

17. I read that book recently- very good read; recommended.

[hfojvt]

23. not at our local library

but this one is

The lessons of terror : a history of warfare against civilians : why it has always failed, and why it will fail again
Carr, Caleb, 1955-

[Libertas1776]

16. "Southern trees bear strange fruit"

http://www.answers.com/topic/strange-fruit

[Ex Lurker]

29. except this took place in Indiana, according to posts upthread n/t

[LeftinOH]

18. A third man who narrowly escaped this lynching mob was named James Cameron, died 2006:

James Cameron; Survived Lynching, Founded Museum

Tuesday, June 13, 2006

James Cameron, 92, who at 16 survived being lynched from a maple tree in Marion, Ind., and decades later was present when the U.S. Senate apologized for its failure to enact federal anti-lynching laws, died June 11 of congestive heart failure at a hospital in Milwaukee.

Mr. Cameron, who kept a piece of the rope that had scarred his neck moments before he was spared, was the only known survivor of a lynching attempt. An astute student of history, he lectured widely and in 1988 founded the Black Holocaust Museum in Milwaukee.

The museum, one of the first of its kind in the country, explores the story of African Americans from slavery to the present. Mr. Cameron started the museum in his basement, and it gained widespread support as a venue of reconciliation.

On Aug. 7, 1930, two years into Mr. Cameron's stay in Marion, the
16-year-old and two acquaintances were arrested and accused of murder, robbery and rape. A white couple was parked in a lovers lane when the trio came upon them and one of the group suggested robbing the couple.

Mr. Cameron later said he changed his mind and ran away before the man, Claude Deeter, 23, was fatally shot. The woman later denied being raped.

Within hours, the three young black men were in jail. A mob broke into the jail, beat them and dragged them into the street. Thomas Shipp, 18, and Abram Smith, 19, were hanged from trees in front of the courthouse. Then came Mr. Cameron's turn.

In his autobiography, Mr. Cameron recalled the raw, inhuman sound of the mob, which included members of the local Ku Klux Klan. He once said he still could remember the faces of the 2,000 white people who gathered there, some with their children. Some eating. He prayed for his life.
Then, as the noose grew tighter around his neck, a voice called out: "Take this boy back. He had nothing to do with any raping or shooting of anybody."

His neck scarred, he was returned to jail and sentenced for robbery.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/12/AR2006061201594.html

[riverwalker]

20. think thats the wrong James Cameron n/t

[LeftinOH]

22. Damn wikipedia... replaced it with his obit & a short bio-

[Treo]

19. Worth mentioning

According to James Cameron (the third man who wasn't lynched) Shipp and Abraham were, in fact , guilty. Mr. Cameron credits Divine intervention W/ saving his life that night

Cameron was with his two friends, Abe Smith and Tommy Shipp, when his friends decided to rob someone they saw sitting in a parked car. Shipp gave Cameron a gun, and Cameron opened the door to the car. What he saw stunned him.
"That white man , in that car, was my friend. I shined his shoes, sometimes, and he always asked me about my family."
Cameron gave the gun back to his friends and ran. He heard gunshots as he ran, but he didn't stop until he reached his home. Police later came to take him away. A white man was dead and his white girlfriend had been raped, they said.

http://www.thehypertexts.com/Mysterious_Ways/Mysterious_Ways_Lynching_of_James_Cameron.htm

[riverwalker]

21. He was convicted in 1931

sentenced to 21 years.

[voc]

26. Thanks for this thread.

Have used the pic, never knew the names.
Another good book, "100 Years of Lynching".
If it can be found.