Anti government sentiment.... and the lynching of a census worker

[nadinbrzezinski]

Now folks this is yet another marker on our road.

This is not funny, and if this proves to be what seems to be happening... the ride is just beginning and more violence will occur...

Oh and folks... this is reminiscent of another era...

That is all.

[Kievan Rus]

1. I agree. The last time we had this, it culminated in places like Antietam and Gettysburg

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. At the very least in places like Selma

but yes... I suspect a modern version of Antietam, sans marching armies...

The pattern though is so damn clear now...

[haele]

9. Don't need to go that far back -

Desegregation through to the Great Society. Radicals taking policy like a bit between their teeth and running with it towards their glorious visions of Armageddon - where, of course, they're on "the right side".
These people don't want to live in the United States anymore, they want to live in their own Private America...

Haele

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Well that was the logical end of that civil war... which in my view

never ended.

Speaking off, finally got it, "nine Nations of North America," dated, but lord it STILL explains a lot. Highly recommended book

[EmilyAnne]

2. What are you guys talking about? This sounds horrible. I just got online and I see references to

this, but no links to a story.
Can you post one?

Thanks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. My bad since the story broke a couple hours ago, here

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/23/census-worker-fed/

[EmilyAnne]

18. Thanks so much. This is too sad. I agree with your original post, by the way. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Oh you welcome... and my bad, I ASSUMED...

[stuball111]

5. try this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/23/census-worker-

[EmilyAnne]

16. Oh my god. How horrible. Thanks for posting this. nt

[BlooInBloo]

3. Countdown until defenders of the region tell us it's just a distraction, and to get over it...

10... 9... 8....

[Beer on a stick]

7. So he was somehow murdrered by......(gasp!)......a region?

Watch out fer them hills, Hoss! They's killers!

[BlooInBloo]

8. Dude. I only got to 4.

[Beer on a stick]

11. Dude, no one is 'defending' a region, because a region didn't do anything.

It just sort of sat there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Don't know what ignored told you

but indeed that is funny, hills... I hear them kentucky blue glass can be deadly.

:-)

[XemaSab]

23. A region?

:shrug:

I live in northern California, and I'm sure there is some similar sentiment up here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Nazi blood flags in my back country

and I am as far as you can get from Dixie...

So yes, you are correct

:-)

[XemaSab]

34. Well hell

I see confederate flags on a monthly basis. I have also seen Nazi tats, and heard rumors of KKK and other hate rallies.

Hate is everywhere, in every state. :(

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Yep, it is a poison and it is spreading.

[Mojambo]

12. It's freaking me out, man. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. I left the freaked out stage about a year ago...

just waiting for the other shoe to finally drop.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Oh and I must add, to those that think this is the SOUTH,

well folks it could have been a story emanating from my own back woods. Trust me, as far as you can get from the southern drawl. This is not a region, but a place of the mind...

This is region independent...

[scheming daemons]

53. In this case, you are right.... the politician most associated with anti-census rhetoric is Bachmann

....from Minnesota.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. She's nuts but some of the jewells I've heard in the backwoods

of San Diego County would make her sound rational

:-)

Hey, they are not paranoid, them Feds took Metzger apart... (Aryan nations)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

17. Since no cause of death has yet been established,

and, in fact, may never be, since the body was in such bad shape when it was found, this OP is a another case of Premature Lynching Hysteria, reminiscent of Chicken Little......................

[izquierdista]

20. Do you read?

Or just post crap with semi-funny gifs? Before you shoot flames out your ass, why don't you take a break and go over to Google News and see what the latest info is?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

21. Has it been declared a homicide?

Because, as of 9:30 EDT tonight, as Rachel Maddow did her show live, the journalist who's been covering this story from the beginning, said there was no cause of death determined.

You have inside information?

Sounds to me like that chicken gif hit you too close to home, sweetheart..........

[izquierdista]

22. No, I guess you don't

10 minutes to find my post and start arguing. No, doesn't hit close to me at all, I know how to read. I go to Goggle News and see what they have, follow a couple links, look at the video from when the body was first found, watch the local news report. Read a couple of follow up stories. But I suppose it doesn't take you long to belch out dancing moron gifs, you probably have a whole treasure trove of them next to the pilot light for your asshole.

[armyowalgreens]

26. Has the cause of death been determined yet?

It's a fairly straight forward question.

[izquierdista]

28. Go find it

You can find this information as easily as I did.

[armyowalgreens]

29. Negative, ghost-rider. The cause of death is yet to be determined...

I haven't been able to find any article saying otherwise.

If you have some evidence that I cannot find, I'd appreciate it if you'd give me a link so I can check it out. Thank you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Lynching usually means a rope

usually means, if they were good about it, a hangman's fracture, which causes immediate unconsciousness while you strangle to death. Otherwise, hanging can be a long drawn death, from asphyxiation.

I am betting the cause will be... determined to be... asphyxiation.

Unless they killed him first and then hung him, but the effect is mostly lost if you do that.

No, will save the graphic description...

[armyowalgreens]

32. You used the term "lynching". The news simply says "hanged".

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. What do you think haging somebody and leaving the body behind is?

Amy it is a lynching. The news media just chose to use a less ahem, explosive term.

[armyowalgreens]

36. No. The news said that it was a hanging. That could be self-inflicted.

You are making some very dangerous assumptions without enough evidence. All of this could backfire.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Lats time I checked you really would have a problem

writing FED right way if you kill yourself.

I am making an educated guess on having seen some real nasty stuff about your age.

The media is being careful for a reason, somebody in DOJ is asking them to be careful in the words they use because of a long history. But I would advise you to realize we have been here before... this is not the first rodeo, and some of us can tell the bullshit being thrown.

Now it could be because he was a federal worker, or he stepped into some nasty stuff, meth labs come to mind and somebody thought he was a DEA agent... or we were set... but quite frankly it is a bad sign... when we start seeing actual lynchings. Now I am also willing to bet that you will not see that word in any news story. Something about history, hanging is so much far less laden.

[armyowalgreens]

41. While you may have more experience than I, you don't know more about this situation than I do.

And there is not enough evidence to say that it is a homicide. While the situation surrounding his death was very suspicious, the facts can sometimes be misleading.

I think it is extremely unwise to start making assumptions about the cause of his death or the involvement of the conservative media. This could be extremely embarrassing to our side if we start making such serious accusations that have the potential of being incorrect. We do not want to give the other side any ammo to be used against us.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. I am readying between the lines

some kind of instrument used to carve the letters... I am guessing a knife.

There used to be a time that they'd give you far more details and not walk away. Just remember, back in the day, two white students went missing in Mississippi. It did not become a murder investigation until a couple FBI Agents showed up. For a good dramatization, watch Mississippi Burning.

Oh and this just happened to occur in Kentucky. It could have very well happened around where I live, which is not the South. But my back woods, are just as bad, meth labs included in fact.

To me these incidents, whether it is the shooting of three cops in one town, or two more in another town, or Dr. Tiller's murder, or the attack at the Holocaust Museum, are just adding up to a PATTERN, a TREND. And not a good one.

And I am serious, I don't expect the media to use the term lynching, and it has all to do with a long history in the South going back many decades.

[armyowalgreens]

43. Well have fun with that. There's nothing wrong with making theories with the evidence.

There is not enough evidence to support your accusations.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. do the words "an aparent homicide"

help?

[armyowalgreens]

48. Not really.

As I said, I'm suspicious. That doesn't mean I'm going to run around blaming the media or freepers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. So we will wait until the officials officially tell you it is

of course I will not be too shocked if the story "dies" either.

[armyowalgreens]

50. I will wait. I will likely be wrong. But this isn't a contest.

[Lex]

51. Don't worry, there were DUers who believed the backwards B girl right up until

the police said it was bullshit that someone attacked her and carved a B on her face.

Some folks don't believe anything until the cops say it is true.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. I know, what worries me is that this is part of a pattern

and this is no contest, just my BS detector going on... overdrive.

Perhaps ten years of working side by side law enforcement and seeing how trees are shaken at times... and a lot of history readying.

:-)

[armyowalgreens]

58. Perhaps that gives you a false sense of confidence.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. Perhaps it is called experience

by the way, them calling it a probable homicide is the closest they've come to actually calling it a homicide.

So I am betting it will be homicide.

[armyowalgreens]

61. If you were so experienced you would realize that it is the exception to the rule that fucks us over

There are extremely serious accusations floating around here.

I know that I'm not the authority on this topic. But it doesn't seem prudent at all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. That somebody was murdered

that is what the article strongly suggests

By rope... again, that is lynching.

That's ok, I am not trying to convince you, just stating what the article strongly suggests

[armyowalgreens]

67. So we accuse Bachmann and the freepers of "homicide" because of a "strong suggestion"?

That was written in a newspaper. I don't exactly consider strong suggestions in newspapers evidence to prove that a death was a homicide.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. If you can prove her hand in this

sure. Otherwise, you don't.

So if you can tie her with physical evidence, go for it.

Though if the authorities find evidence that incitement by a third person was involved, you might want to think about charges. Incitement is an actual charge in the US Code. I doubt anybody will pull the trigger on that, and a lynching with FED may have all to do with DC, or all to do with the local Meth Labs and DEA agents... still a lynching, still anti government sentiment, still part of the pattern. Depends on exactly what they find how strong part of the pattern.

If this is Meth Lab related... weak, but still anti fed. If this is more related to the anti government rants from talk radio (good luck proving that) then a stronger part of the pattern.

Hell, if this happened round my parts of the woods, chances would be ... meth related and DEA...

So for that I will wait for the FBI to tell us more, IF they decide to do such, and not seal their findings... if they do that... civil rights are involved. Why I say that. Usually civil rights are involved.

But it is still a lynching, regardless of the shade of gray in here.

[armyowalgreens]

73. No it is not necessarily a lynching. Saying that it is over and over and over and over again...

Will not make it a lynching.

Sorry, but you are acting ridiculous.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. Ok it is not a lynching

happy now?

:eyes:

never mind that if it walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck...

[armyowalgreens]

79. This isn't a fucking duck. Is this some sort of game to you?

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. No. It is not a game

that's the problem.

But I am not afraid of using the right language when something looks exactly like what it is.

This increase in violence is not a game...

Now I think we are done Amy. Serious, I think we are more than done.

[armyowalgreens]

82. I'm done when I'm done. And I'm not done yet.

You seem to think that the increase in rhetoric is justified because of the seriousness of this situation.

That is completely backwards logic.

[anigbrowl]

76. +1

Lynching specifically means a mob - in fact nb's own wikipedia link above defines it as an extrajudicial killing carried out by a mob. I see zero evidence ofr this; it just looks like cold-blooded murder to mme (though that's only a supposition at this point).

[anigbrowl]

71. Um, lynching and hanging are not interchangeable

Every definition for lynching defines it as extrajudicial mob killing. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of a mob or even group of people being involved. You're misusing the term and I don't know why you keep repeating it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

62. Well done -

I commend you for your good sense and clear thinking.

This whole subthread is quite unbelievable..........................

[anigbrowl]

55. Oh FFS

some kind of instrument used to carve the letters... I am guessing a knife.

Ya think?! a knife? Where would we be without your penetrating analysis?! Nobody but you could have thought of that!

AoW is right - you know no more about than anyone else. There is nothing special about your insight. The person might, possibly, have done it themselves before they were hanged if they were troubled, although homicide seems a much more likely explanation. That's all anyone in the general public knows right now. For god's sake stop being so pretentious.

[anigbrowl]

52. Lynching usually makes me think of an angry mob, not just a hanging

And I can't blame the media for that - there's no much detail, nor anything so far to suggest a mob.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

63. There's nothing to suggest anything -

a man was found dead. Hanging. Something was written on his chest.

No autopsy results, no witnesses, not much information.

But, the leaps and bounds that have been taken here to make his death a murder, a lynching, a knifing, a homicide committed by people who were stirred up by Michelle Bachman and her ilk are Olympic-sized, and I honestly am appalled at the utter stupidity and pretentiousness of those who are claiming superior knowledge of a situation about which virtually nothing is known except the facts I stated in the first sentence of this post.

And we like to mock the people at freerepublic for being idiots?

[anigbrowl]

69. Quite

What's happened to the guy is bad enough for his family and friends without people going off like loose cannons about it. I think it was most likely a homicide and there'sa good chance it was politically motivated, but going around declaring it as fact is really irresponsible.

[anigbrowl]

46. The answer is no, officially

This snark contest is pointless.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

60. Ten minutes to "find" your post?

What do you think? People sit here and wait for you to respond? My, my, what a warped sense of importance some people have, but that's also very funny. You are good for something - entertainment.

Sorry I didn't respond instantly. Mea great big fat culpa.

So, dimwit, you don't know that it's a homicide. And you took all this time just to make yourself look like a total idiot.

Thanks for the laugh, sweetballs. You're fabulous.........................

[armyowalgreens]

24. We don't even know that it was a homicide.

[Barack_America]

27. I suspect it wasn't, until the FBI got involved, that is.

At least not officially, IYKWIM.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. +1 hey those two kids who went missing in Missisipi back in the 60s

just went missing until the FBI got involved...

Could be many places outside the south, but same logic...

[proteus_lives]

25. You're calling this a lynching?

Last I heard they haven't even established cause of death.

Why the "sky is falling" thing?

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Le'me see, body left behind hanging from a rope

where, or rather when have I seen this before?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States

Sorry if I decided to use the actual words that our media refuses to use.

By the way, I am willing to bet that the coroner's report will read something akin to asphyxiation...

And that this only became a murder investigation once the Feds got involved. No, it is not the south, it is the backwoods, wink, wing, nod, nod.

[proteus_lives]

40. Have they said it was murder?

If they have, ok. Call it a lynching.

But if we don't know why or even it was murder yet, calling it a lynching seems very tabloid.

[Lex]

44. "an apparent homicide"

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. They are giving very few details

it smells to me like locals vs Feds... if this becomes a murder, it is a murder investigation of a Federal Employee, the Feds take over. Local v Fed, never a pretty sight. That is one reason they are being so strangely quiet. But things in the articles point to murder. So it will become officially murder, I am willing to bet.

Now here are the critical words



Lucindia Scurry-Johnson, assistant director of the Census Bureau's southern office in Charlotte, N.C., said law enforcement officers have told the agency the matter is "an apparent homicide" but nothing else.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090923/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_census_worker_hanged;_ylt=AixVOt3jjWxTH885wE1kwByWwvIE;_ylu=X3oDMTNjOHBxdWRkBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwOTIzL3VzX2NlbnN1c193b3JrZXJfaGFuZ2VkBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDNARwb3MDNARzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA2Fwc291cmNlY2Vucw--

Of course from the same article this stands out like a sore thumb pointing to foul play

WASHINGTON – A U.S. Census worker found hanging from a tree near a Kentucky cemetery had the word "fed" scrawled on his chest, a law enforcement official said Wednesday, and the FBI is investigating whether he was a victim of anti-government sentiment.

The law enforcement official, who was not authorized to discuss the case and requested anonymity, did not say what type of instrument was used to write the word on the chest of Bill Sparkman, a 51-year-old part-time Census field worker and teacher. He was found Sept. 12 in a remote patch of the Daniel Boone National Forest in rural southeast Kentucky.

-------

My BS detector tells me this was foul play... and the fact that an officer is speaking to the press without revealing much tells me that either they didn't want him to go public, or they are shaking the proverbial trees to see what falls.

[Think America]

57. calm down, lets not jump to conclusions

Let's look at some facts, in March of 2009 This area just had Five Clay County officials, including the circuit court judge, the county clerk, and election officers were arrested Thursday after they were indicted on federal charges accusing them of using corrupt tactics to obtain political power and personal gain.
The defendants were also indicted for extortion, mail fraud, obstruction of justice, conspiracy to injure voters' rights and conspiracy to commit voter fraud.
According to the indictment, these alleged criminal actions affected the outcome of federal, local, and state primary and general elections in 2002, 2004, and 2006.

Clay county one of the poorest counties in the United States is also EXTREMELY lets say loyalties among the families who live there, the local mine owners last name is Hatfield (as in The Hatfields) that kind of family loyalties for lack of a better word.

Couple that with the fact that currently a federal drug program has been regularly sweeping the area looking for meth labs ect...(people making drugs have been know to be violent)

The fact is some people there even though incorrectly, are feeling targeted by the feds
(and if you are a corrupt politian or operate a meth lab, Good you should be)

However misguided this is a much more plausible reason yet it is still just a guess and I will wait for the facts before jumping to conclusions

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. First welcome to DU

second, you are actually giving information that supports anti government feeling, as in federal government, I know where the County is and that it also has a history of anti government feelings

And I know who the McCoy's and the Hatfields are.

And sadly I don't think I am jumping to conclusions, it is part of a pattern we are seeing in the country...

In that area of the country it is also a deep distrust for the feds that goes back a LONG time... I know that.

[JanMichael]

66. Chill out. It was just a weird suicide and had NOTHING to do with...

...Beck, Rush, or any other right wing fuckhead.

He obviously wrote "fed" on himself. Duh!

It's not a crime unless the p-o-lice tell us so.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. LOL... you know what the sad part is?

In some small towns across the US... you are correct... it is not a crime.

:-)

Why the Feds at times get involved, and it becomes a matter of we locals vs you bad feds... as much as folks hate the FBI and the DOJ and at times they are... in these cases you need them.

[BlooInBloo]

70. Clearly we must give them the benefit of the doubt. Wait for all the facts to come in...

I wonder if people will ever get tired of reading from that script - when we all know how the story ends.

[gatorboy]

85. Now let's not jump to conclusions...

Sure a Democratic party leader was murdered right here in Arkansas but I'm sure that was just a big misunderstanding.

Okay and there WAS that group of liberal churchgoers that were murdered in Tennessee and the killer did fear a "Liberal movement" but really, it could have been anybody, he was just crazy.....right?

Census worker murdered in Kentucky ...

Fuck it.

It's time to jump to conclusions. Just to be on the safe side.

[dogknob]

74. Once the facts are all in...

... and OP is correct, How many milliseconds will it take for someone to blame Nancy Pelosi?

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Welcome to DU

[Odin2005]

77. This is getting scary.

:scared:

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. The only thing that makes it less scary

is that the anti guv'ment sentiment in Clay County goes back to well before King George sent his tax men... it really flared up during the Whiskey Rebellion. Oh and has existed in one form or another in that area for the whole life of the United States as a country.

But it is part of a pattern.

To me it is not scary any more... well beyond the scary... just waiting for the other shoe to drop any longer.

[MadMaddie]

83. nadinbrzezinski you are right and it's only going to get worse

[voc]

84. Interesting conversation.

I will only add that a lynching usually involves a black who committed a crime. If it is determined
this was a hanging (associated with whites) then it is important to distinguish between the two.
One is reserved for the ongoing hatred in America against blacks.
So far the facts that are known , do not support
the use of the term.hth

[BlooInBloo]

86. "a lynching usually involves a black who committed a crime" - Enjoy your visit here.

[voc]

87. "enjoy my visit here?"

Don't you think the "you must be a freeper thing is a little old"?
fwiw, what I wrote is backed by tomes of historical data. good to see you.

[BlooInBloo]

88. Yes, I hope you enjoy your visit here.

[voc]

89. Let me be clear.

I am not visiting. I am a person who belongs on DU.(voted Democratic since I could vote)
I agree with the OP on almost all of his/her posts. There is a pattern, sadly, but that was not my point. And you surmised wrongly, that I have an agenda other than correcting the "perception" around a given word.

I may be new to this forum but not new to the conversation or the internet. I am in no mood to go through the baptismal by accusation of being something I am not.

Try to find someone who doesn't care. I do.

Will continue to learn and read the OP and you, and point out when I think a word can bring clarity to a situation no matter how hallowed the ground.

I might suggest, you continue to enjoy your stay. You might actually learn something from me.
I have learned quite a bit from you. I am now done with this.

[bridgit]

90. Your potential edifications are no-less than expected; but an essential key point has lapsed...

in the pool of Narcissus instead: http://mcconnell.senate.gov/contact.cfm It's time to drag not merely Mitch McConnell into the daylight for his personal, irresponsible contributions to this RW hate & divisive insanity of present day America or choke on tears for not having done so http://www.hillbillyreport.org/diary/642/more-news-from-clay-county-kentucky