Knowing a little about the area, I don't think it was "anti-government sentiment"

[kentuck]

I would say that the guy, in his job capacity, staggered upon the wrong place. It may be one of the hollows that surround the area? It may have been a meth or marijuana operation? With his questions, he may have caused some of the more paranoid ones to cross the line? Just a hunch.

It was probably done by more than one person, probably 3 or 4? It was most likely a random killing, in my opinion. Since the area is experiencing a drug epidemic, it was most likely connected to drugs. The victim was not a threat but they felt threatened by his presence and his questioning. So they killed him and took him to the forest and left him there as a message to someone else, perhaps the FBI or the FEDs, that are attempting to close down their livelihood and the only means to their survival?

We will know more in the days ahead.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

1. Does it make sense that people who were concerned about their illegal activities being discovered,

would kill a federal employee in the highest profile way possible, guaranteed to bring in a federal investigation?

All "message sending" and intimidation nonwithstanding?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but...

[kentuck]

4. The Feds are already there...

They don't have to bring them in. They have been looking for the marijuana growers for years. Clay County is one of the poorest counties in the entire United States. There are no jobs. They are in a depression. Drugs is the only underground economy that keeps the people surviving, yet it is killing them at the same time. It is not only unsafe for a census worker to go door to door in parts of that county, it is also unsafe for the FBI and the state troopers to go door to door.

[madeline_con]

5. Yep. I agree. He would have been buried off the beaten path.

But this is high profile, someone who wants to "send a message".

[RandySF]

23. Burying the body would be the smart thing

but then the killer or killers might not have been very smart.

[Common Sense Party]

2. WIthout knowing the area, that was my first thought.

They probably saw him as a narc.

[rwheeler31]

3. Whatever the motivation for this stay away from

these backward people. They are scared and scary.

[unpossibles]

6. I think it could easily be argued that the two - drug cultivators and anti-government types

are most definitely NOT exclusive of each other.

[kentuck]

9. I think a lot of these folks are off the grid...

All they know about the "government" is that they want them to stay away from their guns. I was only giving a possible scenario from what I know about the area, but any of the above is possible. Maybe it was a suicide? But I doubt it.

[unpossibles]

12. true. I don't mean they well informed on politics/news per se, just that they are anti-government

But then again, those are exactly who FOX and Rush and all the rest of those types cater to: paranoid and ill-informed people who don't trust the government, and possibly for a good reason if they are involved with illegal activities already.

I'm not saying it's a fact, but I also don't think one means the other can't also be true.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. The sentiment goes well before teh Whiskey Rebellion

But this is guaranteed to bring more feds than they can crawl out of...

It will be a strong anti government message if there are no drugs involved

It will be a weak one if there are drugs involved.



But part of the pattern we are seeing nonetheless.

[kentuck]

11. These towns are so small that...

everybody knows everybody else in the town. They have nicknames and jokes about every single one of them. When a stranger comes to town, they know it immediately. There is no anonymity for the Feds. There could be more violence if that is the case and more Feds come into the mountains.

[Barack_America]

14. Well, then there's going to be more violence...

Because a federal employee was murdered and that cannot go without prosecution.

Whoever these idiots are and whatever their reason was for killing him, they've fucked themselves royally now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. True, some of these towns have ten people who live in town proper and

the rest in the surrounding country side.

But this will bring feds down like hell. And it will not be fun.

Once they establish it was homicide, it is a federal offense. And like the old civil rights era, good luck convicting, so this will become civil rights... well you know how that goes.

Problem is that this fits a pattern of violence against the guv'ment we are seeing. I know it is quite local, but it is also part of the pattern.

You and I have discussed this. Why I said, no drugs involved, strong message. Drugs involved... usual message...

But feds will swim in anyway.

[kentuck]

26. Some folks think...

they have all the available Feds there already. They don't anticipate an army of Feds coming in.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Oh they are in for a surprise

:-)

After all, some folks have forgotten what happened in another place oh forty years ago... or so

[kentuck]

30. Interesting....

I had not thought of that comparison, but you could be right?

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. There is another element, the DEA has been looking

for an excuse to fall with full force. The Kentucky state police requested the help.

So yes, will not shock me if we see Guard, DEA, FBI and others descending like hell... after all a Federal Employee got killed.

It also fully depends on whether this was drug related or not. If this was drug related I am almost betting on an overwhelming (and out of proportion) response... if it was not...

As they say, keep your eyes open. The Hatfields may have a second run at it. And it will be ugly regardless. As is, the lynching of a Federal worker, and this is what this looks like, will not be taken kindly by the Feds.

(and for research reasons for a story I am writing, I'd better keep my eyes on this)

[kentuck]

36. Many are like guerrillas...

They disperse back into the mountains and their homes until the Feds move on and then they continue their business. Many local officials, cops and judges, are paid off to know the movements of the FEDs, just as they were when alcohol and bootlegging were the underground economy. The Feds do nothing without certain folks knowing their next move.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. I know an element I am using in the fiction

it is an interesting section of the country because culturally it is very different from not only cities, but other rural areas of the country.

I should get a topo map for the fiction by the way. But I know it is extremely rugged terrain.

Oh and remember after the civil war that area had guerrillas all the way to the 1870s.

You live there... I just have read about it

:-)

My equivalent for Mexico is the state of Guerrero. Only difference it is desert... after that, very similar culture vis a vis the Feds.

[kentuck]

41. There has been a transition from illegal alcohol to illegal drugs...

Some of the Oxycontin sell on the street for $100 each. Lortabs and Lorcets are big. So is meth in the more populated areas.

Just as the bootleggers would get a call from "someone" just before they planned to raid their bootlegging place, I am sure the same thing is happening now with some of the marijuana growers. They will leave a case or two and a bottle of bourbon so they can report their "success" in the local paper, even as the huge truck hauled all the stuff away, just before the "raid".

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. You know what I wonder?

What sport will emerge from this. NASCAR goes straight to bootlegging.

And I am all for legalizing the drug trade and TAXING it. But the history of the area... whiskey rebellion comes to mind.

Now what also saddens me is that yes I will call this a lynching... quacks and walks like a duck... but some folks are still waiting for the officials to declare this murder. It was... but that they are trying to make it fit fully into the national scene. It fits, as part of the pattern we are seeing, but as I said in the first post. How much will depend on whether this was drug related or not.

And yes, they are doing the same things they also did during the Whiskey Rebellion, or when King George sent his tax men to the frontier. Hell, that was the reason The Kentucky militia joined that party... well that and the sending of troops.

[kentuck]

44. I would say it was drug related?

Who knows? Maybe the guy wanted some marijuana for his medical condition?

I suppose there are some effective agents around Clay County, Knox County, and Bell County, that have created a few enemies over the last several years? And this was meant to send a message to those few. However, it will be seen as the murder of a Federal agent. At one time, this part of Kentucky, and part of Virginia and Tennessee were going to secede from the union and become their own country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. I know, in the fiction I am working on they finally do

part of the plot revolves around city trying to impose new rules on the back country...

Whiskey rebellion in the mid 21st century

:-)

When I started reading into a lot of it, I went... hollee shit, in some respects somethings have not changed in 200 years...

[stuball111]

52. Just watched a documetory on Methamphetamine...

Are you for legalizing that? I hope to hell not! Pot, yes, anything else, hell, we have legal drugs already, and it's bad news no matter which way you look at it. I know scores of people who's lives have been ruined by "hard drugs".

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. And I know scores of people who have been killed

due to being in the wrong place... or who have been injured when labs have gone boom

Look I am a vet of the damn war on drugs... it is an abject failure...

[Barack_America]

8. How does that not represent "anti-government sentiment"?

Sounds to me like you're still arguing that he was killed by people who fear or distrust anyone working for the government.

[kentuck]

13. They fear and distrust anyone, Feds or not, that threaten their livelihood.

Their livelihood is drugs. Next to parts of California, this area, along with parts of Tennessee, are 2nd and 3rd in the nation in marijuana cultivation. Good Appalachian reefer has a reputation.

[Barack_America]

15. They wrote "Fed" on his chest, not "stranger". nt

[kentuck]

17. Why do you think "they" did that?

Maybe they thought he was a Federal drug agent? There are many of them already there. They have hauled bales of marijuana of those mountains with helicopters. They don't fear the Feds so much as they are pissed at them for interrupting the local economy.

[Barack_America]

19. Because he worked for the government.

The agency he worked for does not lessen their crime. They murdered him.

I could not care less whether they murdered him because of Michelle Bachmann or their "local economy" (which seems to legitimize their illegal activity, btw).

[kentuck]

21. No one is trying to mininmize the crime.

It doesn't matter if he was a Fed or not. That does not make his life more or less valuable. I am only attempting to put into perspective the mindset and the environment that we are discussing. Nothing more.

[mchill]

28. It doesn't matter if he was a Fed and had "Fed" written on his chest?

Ofcourse that matters. It delineates a class that is specifically targeted. It is not random at that point and surely others in that class will be targeted for similar anti-Fed feelings.

[Barack_America]

29. It makes little difference how established the "anti-govt." sentiment is in the culture.

Whether this was influenced by Bachmann or King George, it's a wake-up call.

If it was Bachmann, then she and her ilk need to be held accountable.

If it wasn't Bachmann, they still need to shut their yaps because this crime goes to show what happens when anti-govt. sentiment is allowed to become engrained in a population.

[kentuck]

32. I would be very surprised if the murderers even know...

who Bachman or Beck are?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

50. Bingo.....

I've been watching all this speculation about this death - the people who are sure it was a murder, and it was committed because of the blatherings of Glenn Beck and Michelle Bachman - and I've been way too amused because the idea of the people in that area being even the slightest bit interested in the political world today is laughable.

What's the place in northern Marin - just south of Pt. Reyes Station - that's notorious for their dope culture? I remember stopping there once, saw a bakery, decided to get some bread, and the woman inside the bakery wouldn't open the door to me, just stood there, waving her hands, saying "I don't know you. We have nothing to sell."

And it smelled so damn good.

But, the paranoia, I found out later, was legendary.

BOLINAS! I just remembered.

Scary, scary place. I did not want to stay there, and later found out from people that it was very wise of me to get the hell out of Bolinas....................................

[Lagomorph]

47. They hear Government.....they think

Ruby Ridge, Waco, DEA...

Remember Homeland security asking meter readers and UPS drivers to report what they see?

Why not Census workers?

[emilyg]

10. That was my first thought.

[Hoopla Phil]

16. I agree. To those folks a Fed is a Fed no matter what department they are from.

[kentuck]

20. The "revenooer" mentality still exists in some places...

In the sense that they do not feel connected to their government, they may be considered "anti-government", but not for the reasons that most of the teabaggers protest about. These folks felt the same way about the Yankees and the Rebs in the Great Civil War.

[mchill]

31. And to a Fed

a Fed is a Fed and if they threaten one because they are a Fed, they threaten anyone that is a Fed.

[kentuck]

34. And Feds bleed red like the rest of us?

Or are these some supermen with special skills to handle these types of situations?

[mchill]

37. Bleed like the rest of you, but now have a bullseye on their foreheads

[Hoopla Phil]

46. Oh good grief. You do NOT aim for the forehead. Go back to sniper school

oh wait. . . .

[glinda]

18. You are complicating things. Most likely "killing a Census worker". Hating Government.

[kentuck]

22. No, I don' t think so.

I think you are simplifying it too much.

[RandySF]

25. Something else about this area

You can find yourself very alone very fast. It's also very easy to get lose if you don't know your way around. If he was indeed murdered, it could have been well out of sight.

[LostInAnomie]

35. If you are trying to keep your operation a secret, why not try to hire the body?

It's not like the whole place isn't a remote area with lots of places to bury a body unnoticed. Why would you do it in the most overt way possible, scrawl a anti-government message on the victim's chest, and ensure a very voracious investigation? There's way too much forethought and symbolism behind it to not have an anti-government sentiment.

[kentuck]

38. I don't think most of these folks would agree with the premise...

that because they hate the Feds that have moved into their area and affected their lives, that they mut hate the rest of the government also? They may hate the Feds and love their country? They are not specifically "anti-government", in my opinion.

[Barack_America]

40. I think the "federal" is implied in the "anti-govt.".

The RW hasn't exactly been spewing venom about state and local govts.

When "anti-govt." is mentioned these days 99% of the time we're talking about Feds.

[kentuck]

42. Well, it is true...

Most of them do not care a whole lot for Barack Obama.

[BlooInBloo]

48. Any explanation but that.

[Better Today]

49. "We will know in the days ahead." Truer words never spoken, and

all the speculation till then from us is no better than all of the speculation of virtually everyone regarding ACORN in the recent past that now seems to have been pre-maturely indicting of ACORN.

I've read everything from possible homicide, possible suicide, to lynching. All based on an anonymous source who has simply said "fed" was written on the body. Nothing more that I can find has been released.

[reggie the dog]

51. wouldn't most of the outdoor marijuana

already but cut and in the process of drying? I know they have a lot ready to sell over labor day weekend. When I have gone to kentucky and tennessee over labor day folks all over asked me if I wanted to buy a pound for 700 dollars.

[stuball111]

53. I hear Banjos again....

:hide: Sounds like some poor guy, and a nice guy by accounts, got whacked.... sad no matter how it happened. The truth will come out soon enough.