Woman Threatened With Fines For Watching Neighbors' Kids

[Truth2Tell]

MIDDLEVILLE, Mich. (WZZM) - A West Michigan woman says the state is threatening her with fines and possibly jail time for babysitting her neighbors' children.

Lisa Snyder of Middleville says her neighborhood school bus stop is right in front of her home. It arrives after her neighbors need to be at work, so she watches three of their children for 15-40 minutes until the bus comes.

The Department of Human Services received a complaint that Snyder was operating an illegal child care home. DHS contacted Snyder and told her to get licensed, stop watching her neighbors' kids, or face the consequences.

"It's ridiculous." says Snyder. "We are friends helping friends!" She added that she accepts no money for babysitting.

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/news_story.aspx?storyid=114016&catid=14#">continued here...

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. Thank goodness for the internet so these stories get publicity.

[FiveGoodMen]

2. What possible right does DHS have to stick their nose in this?

[aquart]

8. None whatsoever. It's not an income source.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. I don't think that matters

Don't get me wrong. I think this is ridiculous. But state guidelines are in place to protect kids. You don't need to be charging to babysit to be in trouble for violating child care regs.

[ixion]

3. amazing...

:wow: :crazy:

[madaboutharry]

4. I wonder who complained.

[ixion]

6. someone with an axe to grind would be my bet.

[HubertHeaver]

14. First guess--the bus driver.

[MNDemNY]

16. Or the daycare down the street.

[LiberalFighter]

26. If it is a daycare complaining... they need to be identified and publicly humiliated.

[Chemisse]

67. My state allows unlicensed people to watch 3 kids

I guess it varies by state.

[FormerDittoHead]

29. Good guess. n/t

[MNDemNY]

31. I gotta ask.....

How did you get your lobotomy reversed?




(Just kidding, noting your screen name);) :hi:

[FormerDittoHead]

39. I don't know how long ago it's been, but I wrote it all up here.

I used to be "FormerRushFan" but was confused with someone who used to listen to that band. (I couldn't name a single song)

I don't know if you could search for that message, but it's here somewhere...

Anyway, WHEN I get the time, I'll be telling that story (again) on my website http://www.formerdittohead.com

[Mz Pip]

5. Geez, doesn't the

Dept of Human services have anything better to do? I did the quite a bit when my kids were little. I was a stay at home mom and often had neighborhood kids at my house until the parents got off work.

We also had a babysitting co-op where several families exchanged babysitting so the parents could have a night out once in a while.

Sad to think any of that is now illegal.

[Statistical]

7. Good thing Michigan has tons of money to waste on nonesense like this... oh wait a second...

[ieoeja]

22. Actually, money (hint: fines) may be the motivator here.

One of the things I enjoy about Chicago is that the cops are too busy with real criminals -- or at least those they believe to be real criminals -- to waste time policing traffic and the like.

But in the current economic situation, that has changed. Capturing and incarcerating real criminals cost the city money. Traffic violations on the other hand can be a money-making machine. I seriously believe that I have seen more tickets being written this summer than I have seen in the previous 20 years combined.

[Buzz Clik]

9. Woohoo! Let's be sure to punish people willing to do good deeds for their neighbors.

We had a volunteer crossing guard at our local elementary school who was booted because he allowed one of the kids to hug him after giving away Halloween candy. He was over 70 years old. He was in full costume and never initiated contact with the kids. No warnings. Just a simple dismissal. We can't have people who enjoy children and who kids love to be a part of the kids's experience.

[JerseygirlCT]

28. It's sad, it really is. nt

[Lochloosa]

10. I would suggest she take a good hard look at her neighbors and determine which one made

the call.

Then get nasty.

[TxRider]

11. Wow a blow to teenage girls across the nation... ;)

No more babysitting for you!!!

[truebrit71]

12. I'd tell the DHS to fuck off and mind it's own G-Damned business...

..the kids come over for a party every day...no-one's business...what a monumental waste of time...

[PJPhreak]

13. Figures..

Its Barry County Mi. Middleville is a small town located 18 miles south of Grand Rapids.

Think Clay Co.Ky. With Snow...Lots of it!!

I have Family in Hastings Mi. The Barry Co Seat.

[B3Nut]

70. Barry County has some nice scenery...

I have an aunt on Fair Lake, and friends in Hastings. But there is a lot of mental backwardness around there, heck there's a strong RW streak in my former hometown (Battle Creek.) Sad to see so many brainwashed into going against their own better interests. And going after a lady for watching her neighbor's kids is just horrifically stupid...the fail is strong in these wonks...

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[Fuzz]

15. Tell them to Fuck Off.

[Jennicut]

17. Wow. I have two little girls and my neighbor helps me out now and then.

Its not a daycare! And I babysat all during my teens....not running a daycare then. DHS needs to mind their own business.

[The Straight Story]

18. Well, it is for the betterment of all that we have such strict regulations

Kind of like "Bill can't go to the bar down the street and smoke because others see it as a problem, he should not be offered a choice between a smoking one or non-smoking one, because we know what is better for Bill and society."

We have to protect everyone, no matter how silly it turns out, or punish them for not complying.

[REP]

20. Dude, I smoke. Not everything is about smoking. If it is, it might be time to quit.

Smoking laws and unregulated daycares are really different issues. Really. I'm sure you know this.

[The Straight Story]

24. You mention issues, I am talking about guiding principles

How we apply those principles is what I was referring to.

Abortion and Smoking are two separate issues but have a similar principle: My body, my choice.

Applying it to some businesses where people have to go (hospitals, grocery stores, etc) is different than where people choose to go (bars for example).

The principle is what I am discussing here.

In principle the whole day care thing makes sense - but you lose scale in cases like the one in the op.

So you make exceptions into the law.

[REP]

25. That's a long, twisted road to get from smoking laws to abortion to daycare regs

You have a great day now.

[The Straight Story]

33. Not really, think of it this way "My Body, My choice"

That principal is used a lot in the debate on abortion.

Apply that same principle to other things - because in the end it is not about abortion at all, but personal freedoms and rights.

You don't need a long twisted road when dealing with principals (or value judgments) - apply them equally to different situations to get consistent results. It BECOMES a long twisted road when people want to abandon those principals they so love to force others to bend to their own ideologies and beliefs.

[wickerwoman]

48. Daycare is about children's safety, not "your body".

You don't have a right to leave your preschool aged child unsupervised even though its' "your child", nor do you have the right to leave them in an unsafe situation, such as in a group childcare situation where one person is "watching" fifteen or twenty very young children by themselves.

There are very strict guidelines on the ratio of small children to adults broken down by children's ages in force for day cares and they should also apply to other situations regardless of whether the caregiver is accepting money because it's critical to each child's safety. I'll bet anything that this is about the number of children she is supervising, or her age and health, or the environment that the kids are in.

The last thing Child Protective Services wants is to exponentially increase their caseload by going after babysitters. But if, say, the Duggars hired one babysitter for their 18 kids, including six or seven kids under six, then I think it would be reasonable for the state to assess whether or not the kids were being adequately supervised.

[The Straight Story]

51. I wasn't actually discussing that topic :) (nt)

[REP]

21. Dupe

[Vidar]

19. All too common a complaint with DHS.

[petronius]

23. Perhaps she should call it a 'before school play date'

How is this different from any other instance of having your kids friends stay over for a while? :shrug:

[Hansel]

74. Exactly. Are they going to regulated children playing at another child's home.

This is really ridiculous. The bus stop was at our home when I was a child. My Mother would have the kids all come inside with it was way below zero until the bus came. That was about 10 kids.

We also had kids playing in our home everyday. Seems like she was really pushing it.

I'm sorry but this is just too asinine. It's just a little too much interference from government and I really have to wonder if it isn't motivated by some chain daycare's greed.

[JerseygirlCT]

27. If she takes no money, I don't get

where DHS gets involved.

[pitohui]

32. she's still an unlicensed person strangely willing to watch kids every day for free for nothing

and you don't see why, in this age of hysteria, people would wonder about this? you don't see why child services might be scratching their heads? it's peculiar behavior to say the least...

there is not even a profit motive to explain why she's doing this, she's got nothing, the first time somebody speaks up and say right out loud, "maybe she's a perv and that's why" -- her life is done

she's an idiot to do this frankly, she should take the hint and let the neighbors find licensed care or even take the radical step of taking care of their own damn kids

[Truth2Tell]

35. Watching your neighbor's kids

for a little while is "peculiar behavior?" And she's an "idiot" for helping her neighbors?

What world do you live in?

[JerseygirlCT]

44. I'm guessing a pretty sad one. nt

[msanthrope]

42. What a dark frackin' world you live in.

I do things for my neighbors all the time, including watching kids, taking a UPS delivery, picking up a quart of milk....

Not everyone is a nascent freak.

[JerseygirlCT]

43. Wow.

Have you never had friends? Even very friendly neighbors? If you're lucky, you live near those kind of people. And you help one another out when you can.

If she lives near the stop, and her friends need a short time of care every day, and she's capable... sorry, I don't see this jump for "perv". I'm just not that cynical, I guess.

[Posteritatis]

53. Much of what's wrong with society right now is contained within that comment. (nt)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

60. You forgot the "sarcasm" emoticon -

otherwise, people are going to take your post seriously, and think you're a flaming idiot..........................

[pitohui]

30. maybe she's the one who tipped them off herself

she's got a pretty ridiculous situation, stuck EVERY DAY babysitting 3 kids that are not her own

me, i would have told my neighbors the first time they asked, i don't do any damn babysitting

it's a stupid thing for an unlicensed, unqualified person to do, she's lucky the ONLY thing she's being charged w. is running an unlicensed daycare, in my neck of the woods then someone would have already ruined her life by accusing her of molesting one or more of the children

why would any unqualified person babysit in this day and age? it's asking to have your life destroyed

i suspect she regrets agreeing to watch the brats and now, to get out of it, she's making the claim that the state's on her back

either that or somebody really dislikes either this woman and/or the parents -- either way, if she's smart, she won't keep watching kids when it's obvious someone dislikes her because the false accusations WILL be next

to take such a risk, of having one's life destroyed, and not even to be receiving a minor payday for watching the kids -- that's really stupid, she's making a choice every day to do something that has NO possible benefit to her and could cause her to suffer much harm

honestly while she may be a very nice person she doesn't sound like a very intelligent one

grow some yarbles and when people ask you to babysit their kids, open your mouth and say, "NO THANK YOU"

[Dorian Gray]

34. Thank God

I don't live in your neck of the woods.

[Truth2Tell]

36. You would have told your neighbors

you "don't do any damn babysitting?" And now the kids are "brats?"

"no possible benefit to her?" Doing something helpful for a neighbor?

I get it. You're making joke posts. Just pretending to be really stupid to get a rise out of people. Right?

[Odin2005]

38. I hope you are being sarcastic.

Otherwise you are a moron.

[tyedyeto]

40. I take it you don't have children or if you do...

you have never, ever left them with someone who wasn't licensed or qualified by the state to watch them? That would include and friend or relative during the growing years of your children. If you have ever done that, then your point is moot.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

41. I guess in your universe people don't do kind things for their neighbors.

Or if they do, you think there's something wrong with them -- either they're perverted or just stupid.

I'm glad I don't live in your universe. I'd rather be where kind people look after their neighbors' kids just because they like the kids and have no problem offering help without expecting anything in return. Must suck to be you, that you can't imagine a situation like that.

[Control-Z]

54. do you really suspect -

"i suspect she regrets agreeing to watch the brats and now, to get out of it, she's making the claim that the state's on her back"

that seems like a real stretch to me. i've watched my neighbor's and friend's kids, for free, many times. and they would do the same for me if i ever had the need. it's kind of a normal thing within the parenting community where i live.

my guess would be that one of her neighbors, who doesn't like the sound of children in the morning, probably complained.

[Lorien]

68. "Ignored" exists just to stir things up around here

feeding such a troll only encourages it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

61. Maybe you don't know how emoticons work -

Let me help you - for the "sarcasm" emoticon that you forgot - again - to put into your post, you first type a colon, then sarcasm (no quotation marks), then a colon again.

Like this--------->:sarcasm:

See?

People won't get the humor behind your post if you don't use the emoticon. Subtlety such as yours can be difficult to discern. Without the emoticon, your post is just another pile of crap from a moron.

But, with the :sarcasm:, it's irony, and really quite funny......................

[TwilightGardener]

71. I've watched many a kid for free--for friends, neighbors, relatives, classmates of

my own kids--that's the way it used to be. And my kids were babysat by neighbors, friends, etc. What world do you live in that there's something wrong with that?

[Odin2005]

37. Fucking nanny state.

:grr: :crazy:

[SoCalDem]

46. Unlicensed daycare is unlicensed daycare, is unlicensed daycare

whether it's for a "few minutes" after school or for all day. If it's a daily/regular thing, and for "free", it's still daycare.

Bartered childcare has always been around. I started a babysitting co-op in 1978, but we had meetings, bylaws and shared participation.
When one person does all the "sitting" for another's child, it's daycare. and there is recompense, even if they all agree to say there isn't.

Someone in that neighborhood probably jumped through all the hoops, got the fingerprints, had the "home visits", and bought a license. It's no surpirse that they might call to complain if someone else in the neighborhood is "giving it away" (or getting paid under the table) for a service they paid to offer.

Would McDonalds be ok if someone set up a barbeque grill & a fryer across the street and gave away free burgers & fries? :)

[Truth2Tell]

47. So should all teenage babysitters

be required to get licenses to work? Should nobody watch their friend's or neighbor's children for 30 minutes without a license? Is that how you believe the system should work? Really?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

49. To take the same analogy further...

Does McDonald's have a right to complain every time people invite their neighbors over for dinner? Seriously, where's the common sense? Yes, require a day care license for people who are in the business of providing child care as their profession, for profit. But why can't a neighbor watch a few kids for a few minutes? If your kid goes next door to play with the neighbor kid, does that kid's mother have to get a day care license because there's an unrelated kid in her home?

:eyes:

[wickerwoman]

50. Depending on the ages and number of children they are watching, yes.

I think babysitters should have licenses to watch infants, or more than three children at a time, especially if those kids are under five.

There's a difference between having your neighbor watch your kid for half and hour here and there on an informal basis and dropping them off every morning, especially if you have your own kids and are then supervising a large group of under-fives. There's a reason why swimming pools, playgrounds, malls and many other public spaces require a certain child to supervisor ratio.

If the child is not in their own home and/or not being supervised by their parents, then the same rules that apply to daycares and preschools should apply to any other kind of supervision.

[SoCalDem]

55. 30 minutes now and then?..of course not, but EVERY day

that's the rub.

The DHS has to crack down, or there will be more people choosing to NOT get licensed.

It sucks to have to arrange for afterschool or before school care, and if the neighbor wants to "be there" for her friends, great.. she just needs to get a license (not that expensive, even though it's a hassle), and then watch the kids.

Neighbors watch each other's kids all the time, and friends always like to help out, but if it's every day,and the other mother is not reciprocating with child care as well, it's a job..

[Truth2Tell]

57. Nonsense.

My neighbor's watch my daughter for anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours per day. We do the same with their kids. When one of us has to run out, the other watches the kids. We do similar things with other friends. Every. Day. And it would be the height of nanny state absurdity to require any of us to have a license.

[SoCalDem]

59. "we do the same" is a game-changer.. as I said in BOTH posts

when it's reciprocal and occasional it's DIFFERENT.

If it's ONE Mom watching the same kids EVERY DAY, week in and week out..while the other Moms are at work or on their way to or from work , it's different.

whatever floats their (and your boat), but that's "daycare", and if someone ion their neighborhood is a licensed daycare provider, they are probably the ones who called attention to it.

"casual" arrangements are best kept quiet, but then a bunch of kids hanging out together every day at one house, does call attention to their situation.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

62. Your comment,

"'casual arrangements' are best kept quiet" is one of the most disturbing things I've read in a long, long time.

A woman keeping an eye on some kids for a little while should be "kept quiet"?

WTF?

That comment makes it sound like we're living in a police state and the woman is doing something that is illegal, or at least on the fringes of "illegal."

Comparing someone watching a few kids for a little while each day until their parent gets home is NOT daycare. It's a neighbor and friend doing what neighbors and friends do for each other. Chances are those kids would be at each other's houses anyway.

That anyone could even come up with the notion of "keeping it quiet" is so disturbing, I'm having trouble finding the words to describe how utterly terrible it is.

Kids "call attention to the situation"???? Yeah, kids at a house - that's a real reason for suspicion.

What is WRONG with this picture? Are you kidding? Please tell me you're kidding..........................

[snake in the grass]

63. You just injected common sense into the discussion, and...

...that doesn't go down well with some people. I was out of the country for 22 years and upon my return, I must recognize that many people (on both sides of the political spectrum) have lost their collective minds. Pictures of naked infants bathing? Child pornography. Friends and neighbors helping each other out with supervising the children? Unlicensed profession. Children caught playing doctor? Busted and sent to sexual sensitivity therapy. Really, this country is just plain sick and sickening sometimes.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

64. Welcome home,

to a place you can't even recognize as home. Or would you want to?

I know. The Mothers Superior are everywhere, and the people bleat for MORE LAWS, MORE RULES, ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAWS, and then they rail at the Patriot Act, which seems to me would be the culmination of their dreams.

That it's not exclusively the realm of the rightwingnuts troubles me a whole lot.

A long time ago - 1967 - a wise college professor told me that "the hippies are the ones who turn out to be the biggest Puritans."

Arthur Webster was his name. Mr. Webster was right, and we are the poorer for it....................................

[Posteritatis]

52. Neighbors are neighbors are neighbors. (nt)

[DeSwiss]

56. How is a "daycare facility" legally defined?

Human Services can threaten all they want. The state cannot intervene into a private person's life without probable cause (at least that's what the paper still says). And they don't have shit. I'd meet them in court and then sue 'em myself.

- Of course I realize MI has no money. But I'd take an IOU or a couple of cars.

K&R

[progressivebydesign]

58. a neighbor probably complained because the kids were disruptive.

There is usually more to the story than it seems. I had a neighbor behind me who would watch the other kids for free, and usually they'd get several other kids there at the same time. PIcture every afternoon having 10 hcildren screaming in the yard right behind your window. No one would have complained had it been just 3 kids coming to her house for milk and cookies... there's always something else to the story.

[Lorien]

69. I had 13 children screaming next door to me for years

The neighbor was Catholic; she had her kids and her sister's children. Her husband was almost never around, and when he was he was screaming at her. I complained about the beastly husband, but not about the kids. The kids were just being kids-I may as well complain about the blue jays in my yard! Besides, there is nothing in this story that suggests that the children were disruptive, so there's no need to turn authoritarian.

[Lagomorph]

65. What happened to "It takes a village?"

Or does it take a government controlled police state?

[FlaGranny]

66. This is a lot like

the 7-year-old who gets cited by the city for selling lemonade without a license in front of his home - stupid.

[aikoaiko]

72. "she watches three of their children for 15-40 minutes until the bus comes"

If that is against the law, then the law sucks and needs to be changed.


It's good to see a lawmaker make better law:
State Representative Brian Calley is drafting legislation that would exempt people who agree to care for non-dependent children from daycare rules as long as they're not engaged in a business.

[Kadie]

73. Agreed.

It is just crazy that they want her to get a daycare license. Neighbors watch each others kids all the time. Don't know what I would do without help from my neighbors, and I am there for them when they need someone to watch the kids.

[proud patriot]

75. This is outrageous

I've have baysat since I was 12 years old .
Sometimes it's here and other times it's at their
house ..

The DHS is wrong wrong wrong