Wellll looking like we may be sending 40,000 more troops into Afghanistan...

[samrock]

What do you all think???

I sure hope we have a REAL plan.. and what good is a zillion troops there if Osama and his buddies are in Pakistan!!..

[gateley]

1. Where are you getting this intel? when was this decided? nt

[LiberalAndProud]

30. Oh it's possible.

From what I can tell, the request hasn't even been sent to Obama yet. But anything is possible.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4077498

McChrystal's appeal for more troops and resources was due to be formally submitted to Defense Secretary Robert Gates by Saturday but Gates has decided to hold off presenting the request to Obama until the administration completes a review of war strategy.

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hjqY...

[gateley]

57. They know the Generals will always be asking for more personnel, I'm just

hoping they take a look at the big picture. I don't know WHAT they could hope to accomplish by staying.

I give Obama props for stepping back and taking a look at this, recognizing that maybe other options need to be considered. And I'm grateful to those who are presenting those alternatives.

[Kievan Rus]

2. History repeats itself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan

[YOY]

5. More than once...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War

[DBoon]

11. BHO = LBJ?

progressive domestic agenda scuttled due to never ending war

What have the Great Society have been if there were no Vietnam War?

[ShortnFiery]

3. Contractors outnumber troops in Afghanistan: Troops protect Corporate Interests!

[bigwillq]

4. Send them all HOME! NOW!

:mad:

[Parker CA]

6. Link?

[redqueen]

26. Someone hinted at it on a talk show.

Or some newsreader repeated it (it's all the rage right now).

What, that's not good enough for you? :sarcasm:

[Parker CA]

59. ;)

[WVRICK13]

7. When Is The Peace March

in DC? Hopefully we won't give any President a pass on something this important.

[Mari333]

38. United for Peace and Justice is working on it

keep an eye on their website.

[truebrit71]

8. Either do it right, or don't do it at all...

...history has not been kind to those that try to conquer Afghanistan...

[The Straight Story]

9. We should have left after we won

We took out the leaders we saw as behind helping with 9/11, leave, put up a big sign saying that "If the next person who comes into power tries this, we will come back and hit them like we did last time"

Problem is - we are fighting an ideology, and enemy that exists only in the minds of others.

[kimmerspixelated]

14. Well put!

Straight Story does not speak with a forked tongue!

[samrock]

19. We NEVER took out their leaders!!

We chased them into Pakistan.. but they are still there and as soon we leave Afghanistan.. they will move right back in.. UNLESS the people of Afghanistan have their own security force to prevent it..

[samrock]

10. I have no proof we are BUT

From watching CNN, reading various news sources.. sure SEEMS like we heading there..

BTW We are NOT the Russians or the British.. we have desire to conquer the area.. HELL we do not want to be there.. we just want to be sure that the country will not be used as a base to plan/train/launch attacks against us.. I mean what would we do if we totally left... and then the Taliban took it back over.. reduced women again to slave status.. allowed Al Queda to train and resume what they were doing before 9/11????

We can not bomb them back into the stone age.. they ARE in the stone age.. I feel we will have to be there for generations.. I just hope the rest of the western world will be there with us..

[elocs]

12. In 1968 we had over 500,000 troops in Vietnam, a country half the size of Afghanistan.

We all know how that ended. Obama is smart enough to know the path he is heading down. No matter who started Afghanistan, he will own it and it will be his for history to dissect.

Add 40,000 troops, then another, then another. It's a trap and will not work. Arm, support, and back the Afghanis and if they really want their country they should be able to defeat the Taliban who are not getting similar support from any world superpower.

[samrock]

13. Vietnam is NOT Afghanistan...

1) There is no super power supplying arms to the other side..

2) We are just trying to stop the country from being used to attack us!.. Was Vietnam used as a base to attack our largest city and kill over 3,000 people????

[lefty369]

15. well said samrock

We must remember 911 and who the real terrorists are. They attacked us so we must remain on the offensive and take it to them on their turf to prevent a repeat of 911. The best defence is a good offence:)

[KG]

18. the supposed terrorists were saudis and egyptians. how come the US hasn't invaded SA or egypt?

[samrock]

20. Cause they are not in Saudi Arabia pr Egypt..

Neither Saudi Arabia or Egypt has not allowed them to use their countries to set up bases to attack us..

[KG]

21. riiiiight.....

:eyes:

[elocs]

16. So how is that working out? 100,000 troops can't police and secure a nation the size of Afghanistan

and if that is our attitude and philosophy, then we will never leave.

Your post and philosophy is one that I do not really see here at DU and frankly, in a democracy, one the majority of the people do not support a war it will end.

[samrock]

17. We are not there to police and secure the nation forever!!

We have to make a few assumptions..

1) The vast majority of the people of Afghanistan do NOT want to live under the Taliban with all their strict belief's.

2) Most of the people there do not look at us as the Great Satan..

Sooo we just have to stay there long enough for them to form their own armies and infrastructure to allow them to keep the Taliban and Al Queda at bay with out us there...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Vietnamization with the same excuses and results.

Another lost war for nothing.

[Mari333]

29. oh for petes sake learn about why we are there

it has to do with money, thats all. no other reason. always follow the money and dont believe the bush/cheney propoganda

http://www.alternet.org/world/139983/pipeline-istan:_everything_you_need_to_know_about_oil,_gas,_russia,_china,_iran,_afghanistan_and_obama/?page=entire

[samrock]

31. My brother lives 4 blocks from ground zero..

Ya REALLY think if there had been no attack on 9/11 we would be in Afghanistan?!?!?!

[Mari333]

34. We kneejerked an attack with NO PROOF

show me one document that proves anything about afghanistan having anything to do with 9/11. proof, not heresay.
and 15 of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, but we suck the Saudis dicks.

No, we should not have gone in at all. period. perhaps we need to look in the proverbial mirror and ask ourselves why U.S. policy all over the world and our need to take over other people's countries and steal their resources makes us so hated that they would attack us?

[elocs]

58. Really? So you are personally in possession of our total withdrawal date?

I thought so.

This country is still a democracy and when most of the people want us out of Afghanistan we will be out, ready or not. Doesn't democracy just suck?

[Mari333]

27. then enlist.

[Odin2005]

32. Oh, the one-trick pony, still pushing that fallacious talking point.

It's getting old.

[Mari333]

35. oh Im so concerned about your opinion

again, those who advocate war should be willing to go there. otherwise they are farts in the wind.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Politicians and generals playing CYA with cannon fodder. Vietnam redux.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

24. We're there for freedom and democracy.

If youre going to be delusional, go all the way.
Afghanistan will soon be back in the hands of the Afghanis
to do what they will. It doesnt matter what we do or what
you think or believe or dream up. Try reading one of them
there history books.

[samrock]

25. Soooooooo

We just sit back.. withdraw from there allow what ever happens to happen.. and if the manage to launch attacks at us we...... do what???

[A-Schwarzenegger]

28. "We"? I won't give you directions to the nearest recruiting office.

[MadHound]

33. Sorry, I refuse to support those who support an illegal, immoral war

That is exactly what Afghanistan is, an illegal, immoral war. We apparently haven't learned the lessons of history, and once again we're going to expend money and people in a war whose only victors will be the corporate interests, the merchants of death, the military industrial complex.

Yet sadly, since this is a Democrat who is doubling down on this illegal, immoral war, many many people around here will contort the truth and bend morality to the breaking point in order to show their support for a war presided over and expanded by a Democrat. Hypocrisy much.

There is no victory in this war, the best military minds, including Petraeus have stated this. There is no clear mission. Every bomb we drop, every bullet we fire simply turns more and more Afghan and Pakistan people against us. There is no definition of success. If we're in this to get Osama, then two things, we should conduct this operation as a true police action(small, contained, surgical) rather than a military operation. But the fact of the matter is that Osama is most likely dead, the experts in the area have stated this time and again. So if Osama is dead, why are we there? Much like Vietnam(funny how that comparison keeps coming up), it doesn't matter how long we stay there or what we do. Once we leave the Afghan people will re-establish the government and culture they want, not the one we want.

So again we come back around to the fact that this is an exercise in futility, one that only enriches those in the military industrial complex at the expense of the rest of us. And despite the fact that this war is being conducted by a Democrat, I refuse to support anybody who is in favor of this war.

[samrock]

36. Illegal?!?!!?

We were attacked!!! Did ya think World War II was also Illegal and immoral?? Again I asked what do we do if we totally pull out and the forces that attacked us on 9/11 go back and undisturbed formulate some other way to attack us and do so??

[Mari333]

37. Bush and Cheney thank you for your support. nt

[samrock]

41. Soooo you deny we were attacked!?!

3,000+ were not killed on that day.. Ooo are you among those who feel Bush et al planned the attack or allowed it to happen??

[Mari333]

46. you didnt read any of the links I gave you about the pipeline

you are just regurgitating Bush and Cheney rhetoric.

[samrock]

49. I know about the pipeline and read about it..

Soo ya REALLY think that those who stand to profit from the pipeline set up the 9/11 attack to give us the excuse to go into there????

[Mari333]

55. The USA is in perpetual war all the time and will use any excuse to profit from war

any excuse.
I suggest, since you feel so strongly about it, that you enlist. or ask your son or daughter to enlist.
That way, your opinion will be lent some credence .

[G_j]

44. the Taliban attacked us?

"Afghanistan" attacked us?

Did Bush reveal evidence before invading?

answer to questions:

no, no, and no

[Mari333]

47. +1

[MadHound]

50. Illegal due to a number of reasons

One of them is the fact that we're conducting cross border raids, attacking a sovereign country named Pakistan, for no good reason.

As far as the 911 attacks, if that is truly the reason we're in Afghanistan then we should conduct this as a true police operation (again, small, contained, surgical). By conducting this as a full blown military operation all we're doing is turning an entire population against us.

And quite frankly, if you read your history you will find that a power such as we are simply cannot win a guerilla war like the one that we are currently fighting in Afghanistan. There is no land base to take, no capital, everything is amorphous, flowing, fleeting. All we will do by our continued presence is expend men and money in a futile effort. Hell, even the British, as far back as 1784 knew that one, that's why they pulled out of the US, they couldn't afford to fight a guerilla war.

So what is your solution, continue to fight a futile war, expending money and men until we collapse like the Soviet Union did? What is your vision of "victory" and "success"? As I said before, it doesn't matter when we pull out or what we do, when we leave the Afghan people are going to return to the government and culture of their choice, and by continuing this course we're on, all we're creating is more and more enemies who will come back to haunt us.

We're in a battle of idea here, that's the key. We have to offer these people a better idea, a better model. Rather than introducing ourselves via bombs and bullets, we need to offer aid and a better idea. We are that shining city on a hill, as tarnished as that image has been at times. It's about damn time we started acting like it. For instance, last December there was a massive earthquake on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border area. Thousands of people were thrust into the cold, with no shelter, no food. A perfect opportunity for the US to show a better idea by conducting air drops and convoys of needed supplies. Instead we decided to continue to bomb wedding parties and other innocents while the local terrorist organization were the ones who came to the rescue with aid and supplies. Now who do you think these people now admire more? Oh, yeah, not the US. Go read the book "The Ugly American." It's old, it deals with the Vietnam conflict, but the ideas and strategies behind it are still very much applicable.

Educate yourself and stop doing the knee jerk reaction. All you're doing is feeding the military industrial beast. Congratulations for being played for a fool.

[Odin2005]

39. The naive pacifists seem to have forgotten that Afghanistan is not Iraq.

[MadHound]

53. Show me one guerilla war that was ever won.

Oh, yeah, that's right, no major empire has ever won a guerilla war. Go talk to the British about that one, that's how we gained our own independence.

[MadHound]

56. Oh, one other difference,

This war in Afghanistan is being pushed by Obama now. I saw little support for this war until he started pushing for it. So tell me, if a 'Pug was still in the White House would you still support our presence in Afghanistan? Somehow I doubt it.

[Mari333]

40. The Afghan people dont even want us there

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0302/p01s01-wosc.html

[samrock]

43. We don't want to be there either!!!

But we can not allow a vacuum there we saw what happens when there IS a vacuum there...

[Mari333]

51. we see what happens when the US is there

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2009/04/09/us-troops-kill-five-civilians-in-afghanistan-governor-says.html

[MadHound]

54. Well you certainly seem to want to be there

So why don't you either put up or shut up? The local recruiting office is always hiring, up to age forty three.

[Avalux]

42. Please provide a link to support your statement. n/t

[redqueen]

45. See post #26.

This was being ramped up this morning on FOX News.

[Avalux]

48. Well that explains it then.

There is no link and even if there were, it wouldn't be credible anyway. ;-)

[redqueen]

52. And they are really pushing it hard.

They're going to have generals on FOX's Sunday show, talking about how necessary these troops are.

And how awful it is that Obama is not immediately saying "yes." :)

[Dr Fate]

60. Gee, that doesnt sound very "revenue neutral" to me.

I guess that means Blue Dogs will oppose this? LOL! Just kidding.