So Bill Sparkman was apparently LYNCHED. For doing his job. Taking the Census.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

Might as well call it what it is.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. How do you come

to this conclusion?

[sasquatch]

2. Well if it looks like a duck...you know the rest.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

5. No, I don't know the rest -

I do know about leaping to unfounded conclusions on the basis of no information.

People do that all the time............................

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

3. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=4077908

[Tangerine LaBamba]

7. Yes, I read that -

and I ask you what in that article leads you to conclude that it was a lynching.....................................

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

9. The man was murdered by hanging. His ID badge taped to his neck, and "fed" written on him,

would suggest that the murder was meant to terrorize and send a public message.

I didn't rule out suicide as a possibility based on the early scant information, although I thought it very unlikely for reasons stated by others. I do rule it out now.


Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: lynch
Pronunciation: \ˈlinch\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: lynch law
Date: 1836

: to put to death (as by hanging) by mob action without legal sanction

[Tangerine LaBamba]

15. No, he died from asphyxiation -

no indication that his death was due to hanging. Strangulation seems to have been what killed him.

The conclusion that it was a lynching is without basis........................

[KittyWampus]

20. It was at LEAST a symbolic lynching. Even if the poor soul was strangled and then hung.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

21. A symbolic lynching?

You mean leaving the body sort of strung up, but not really strung up?

("Hanged," not "hung." Only a plastic surgeon can hang himself. {Think about it.})

There's something missing from this scene. The lynchings I recall very often were photographed, the people involved standing around, ever so proud of their handiwork. And they weren't all that long ago.



That was lynching. This is some kind of death, but it's so strange, who knows what the story is?

I wonder if we'll ever find out..............................

[KittyWampus]

24. Aw, aren't you special for posting that picture. Yes, SYMBOLIC lynching.

And here's a photo just for you.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

31. No, I'm not at all special -

and I posted that photograph to ensure that people who throw around the word "lynching" are aware, especially if they're too young to remember the actual events, of exactly what they were.

Elucidation - it's a beautiful thing.

And that photo is very cute. Thanks for the chuckle................................

[anigbrowl]

28. actually, they're not mutually exclusive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging (warning, forensic)

In judicial executions they adopted a system designed to result in a quick death due to a broken neck, but the term covers more than that. As the coroner's mention of asphyxiation tells us is that his neck wasn't broken.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

32. That's right -

but nowhere in the statement is there a mention of hanging being the proximate cause of death, so I'm waiting to hear the full explanation, along with a whole lot of other information.

If it's ever forthcoming.

Remember when Saddam Hussein was hanged? It ended up being a decapitation.........................

[NYC_SKP]

40. Hanging can cause asphyxiation, the two are NOT mutually exclusive...

Death by hanging can be a result of many "causes of death"

The "cause of death" here was asphyxiation, it could have been from choking, strangulation, smothering, or by hanging from a rope or being strangled by a rope.

Asphyxia is the "cause of death", the "manner of death" has yet to be determined, or at least made public.

wiki:

"The cause of death in hanging depends on the conditions related to the event. When the body is released from a relatively high position, death is usually caused by severing the spinal cord between C1 and C2, which may be functional decapitation. High cervical fracture frequently occurs in judicial hangings, and in fact the C1-C2 fracture has been called the "hangman's fracture" in medicine, even when it occurs in other circumstances. Usually, accidental C1-C2 fracture victims do not immediately become unconscious; instead death occurs after some minutes. Another process that has been suggested is carotid sinus reflex death. By this theory, the mechanical stimulation of the carotid sinus in the neck brings on terminal cardiac arrest.

In the absence of fracture and dislocation, occlusion of blood vessels becomes the major cause of death, rather than asphyxiation. Obstruction of venous drainage of the brain via occlusion of the internal jugular veins leads to cerebral edema and then cerebral ischemia. The face will typically become engorged and cyanotic (turned blue through lack of oxygen). There will be the classic sign of strangulation—petechiae—little blood marks on the face and in the eyes from burst blood capillaries. The tongue may protrude."

[Tangerine LaBamba]

41. That's right -

but, in my experience, when an ME states the cause of death, and a rope around the neck is involved, he would have stated that it was "death by hanging." That it wasn't stated is a significant detail to me.

Of course, it may be clarified later. There is so little information out there now, with a lot to come, I hope...............................................

[NYC_SKP]

52. Rope might have been more of a leash thing, where was the other end of rope?

We don't know... Poor man. :cry:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

58. No, we don't -

the first reports had his body hanging from the tree, remember?

Then it was reported that "his feet were touching the ground."

I've also read that his body was "on the ground."

There's just too much not yet known...........................

[DevonRex]

55. I'm not sure why you're tying yourself all up in knots trying to say it wasn't

a hanging. Kind of strange.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

57. "... in knots....."

Friend, believe me, I am as smooth and untied as anyone can be. That you find a simple statement that hanging was not attributed as the cause of death to be someone "tied up in knots" suggests your ability to read and think is as bad as your facility with the language.

But, that's all right. I trust you can feed yourself without help?

[cherokeeprogressive]

45. Can you please point me to the autopsy results showing positively what the manner of his death was?

I didn't know they had been posted.

"murdered by hanging..."

[Tangerine LaBamba]

49. Stop asking for something authentic -

what is WRONG with you?

Sheesh.

Next thing you're going to want is something realistic, like an ME's autopsy report, or something.

Look. He's dead. He was a Census worker. Michelle Bachmann and Glenn Beck have made smarmy stupid comments about the Census.

How much more do you want?

They're responsible for this death.

Can't be any clearer than that..................

:sarcasm: <--------------------------- sadly, this is mandatory now......................

[DearAbby]

25. How would a man duck tape his own hands

and feet before placing the noose around his neck? Why naked? Why scrawl the word "FED" and tape his own badge on his own neck? I commend you for waiting until further facts were exposed. But these facts I had just stated, makes it pretty clear to me, it was foul play.

Now we don't know the motive, or person(s) involved. We can be pretty sure it was murder.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

33. Who said he did it to himself?

That's a fairly strange question you posit.

I know nothing about why he was naked. I asked that question myself. What's interesting to me about his having been found naked is that when teenage boys succumb to auto-erotic asphyxiation, they are almost always found naked. Like David Carradine. It caught my attention.

Foul play seems to be inescapable as a conclusion. But the kind of foul play? No one knows. Not yet........................

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. One thing, it is not apparent, it is a Lynching

some of us have been calling it this way for a few days now.

[angrycarpenter]

6. I wrote a long condemnation for this act yesterday

And most of responses were to effect that I was being stupid for assuming that this was a murder and the unrecs flew heavy. I even admitted that it was all my opinion and still I was called "inane" for assuming what was to me obvious. People who hang themselves usually do it at home where their loved ones will find them.

[bluestateguy]

8. Even if we can rule out suicide and it's murder, we don't yet know if it was political

The reason I am hesitant to jump on board with everyone's Angry White Male/Ditthohead/Teabagger pushed over the edge narrative is because we will all have a big egg on our face if we jump to conclusions without having the facts first.

[Barack_America]

10. His Census ID card was duct taped to his neck...

...and the word "Fed" written on his chest.

It's pretty obviously political. What is unclear is how far back the political sentiment goes. People riled up by Beck and Bachmann? Or people with a long-seated hatred of the federal govt. going back decades?

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. All of the above...

Serious, and add a couple hundred years to it.

:-(

[Tangerine LaBamba]

36. Or, it's pretty obviously a case

of someone wanting the authorities to believe it was political.

No one knows yet.............................

[angrycarpenter]

11. I think this is exactly what it looks like.

If I can't be reactionary here then where?

[bluestateguy]

17. When the authorities say that they believe he was murdered out of political motives

I'm only trying to help. If we are out there waving the bloody shirt, pushing a story that is not backed up by the facts, then we will deservedly look like fools.

[starroute]

26. I figure it's part of our job description to look like fools

I mean, who's going to say the radical things? The mainstream media can't do it. Our elected officials can't do it. So it's up to people like us, where it doesn't matter if we look like fools now and then.

One of the reasons the right keeps blindsiding us is that they have people who feel free to say anything they like, no matter how stupid. But we're all too nicey-nicey and trying not to say anything we could get in trouble for -- and as a result, we hamstring ourselves.

I'm damn well ready to say this murder was committed by people who were either inspired -- or at the very least emboldened -- by Glenn Beck and Michele "we won't be answering" Bachmann. And I defy anyone to prove me wrong.

In the immortal words of Weird Al -- dare to be stupid. So who's with me?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

37. I don't think it's a matter of people

who "can't" announce that this was a political act. It's that they're smart enough to know that there facts don't support that conclusion. They don't have the facts. Neither do we.

I will agree with you immediately - instantly - about this having been inspired by the rantings of Beck and Bachmann when you show me proof.

Until then, I choose not to be stupid............................

[snake in the grass]

47. I totally agree with you on this.

It irks me that so many have gone off half-cocked with elaborate denouncements of Bachmann and Beck. My feeling, too, is that it was some anti-government homunculi, but I prefer to wait until the facts are on the table before I start pointing fingers.

[patrice]

18. I don't think there's anything wrong with talking about what it looks like.

KKK or gangs or . . . . Anarchists.

Looks like Terrorism.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. Concur. That is was murder is clear. The reason is not

Its tempting to blame tea baggers etc., but waiting a few days to get real data is the correct course

[Tangerine LaBamba]

38. Maybe it's manslaughter........

Maybe he died accidentally and some twisted individual decided to truss up his body.

I'm still trying to figure out why his clothes were in his truck. That's nagging at me, but then, not much is making sense so far, so I'm waiting to hear more about what they discover..........................

[ProgressiveProfessor]

56. Agree, there is too much odd details out there to take a stand

though some clearly are.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

34. Same here -

freepers don't have a monopoly, it seems, on breaking their asses leaping to unfounded conclusions.

What's the hurry, anyway?

[Andy823]

13. What the census bureau is doing now

Is verifying addresses. I had a worker come by my place a few months back to verify my address and they are using GPS tracking to do it this year. She walked to he side of my house to use a device pointed up at the sky towards a satellite and it put in the information. I asked her about it and she said that "all" addresses would be verified this way so that when the census starts those going door to door would be able to find the right house using this system.

Now this could really get some of the nuts out there worked up if Sparkman was doing this. Can you imagine some crazy that listens to Beck daily having someone putting their home on a GPS tracking system? These people are the tin foil hat crowd that thinks the government is trying to take away their rights, their guns, and their way of life!

[KT2000]

22. OMG - they can't do this

of course people are going to think something is up - especially after the bush years and their penchant for eavesdropping. People will be suspicious when anyone would walk to the side of the house. If they keep this up they better put some public service ads on TV. That of course will set off a new round of RW bellowing. Best to can the GPS.

He could also have been working on an on-going survey though. They do maintain permanent part-time employees who conduct the surveys for housing, unemployment etc.

[Andy823]

60. You are right.

I had to ask the lady that stopped by my house what she was doing, and then she explained it to me. It didn't bother me, but I can see how someone who has problems with thinking the government is trying to take away their way of life, "would" have a problem.

You also could be right and the was doing a different kind of survey.

[ThoughtCriminal]

27. From what I've learned

He was working on the "American Community Survey". I am fairly certain that these are laptops that do not have GPS capability.

The Census Bureau completed the address canvasing preparation (the part where they were using hand-held computers with GPS) last June.

The GPS enabled hand held computers are not going to used for the remaining phases of the 2010 Decennial Census.

[TreasonousBastard]

35. If he was working the ACS, he had a laptop and no GPS...

ACS is one of a dozen or so surveys the Census bureau does between decennial census counts.

I've worked ACS, and have had "issues" in areas you would think were a lot more laid back than rural kentucky.

But, nobody any more than what we've been told and further speculation is pointless.

[Andy823]

59. Do you mean

June 2008 when you say last June, or June 2009? Like I said the lady that stopped by my house had one of the hand held devices and that probably could have been in June or maybe May of this year,.

[ThoughtCriminal]

62. 2009

[KT2000]

39. the RW is on this

just came across this at HuffPost

"The American Daily Review suggests that the Census GPS is a way to help United Nations personnel round people up after Obama lets foreign troops control the country."

They had a list of 8 crazy census conspiracies.


Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/25/crazy-census-conspiracies_n_299830.html?slidenumber=4#slide_image

[Andy823]

61. I figured

Some of the nuts on the right would be coming up with all kinds of conspiracies involving this. I remember back when Clinton was in office, and the military was doing some stuff on the border between Canada and Washington state, that a lot of the right wing nuts, the militia crowd, started talking about the UN invading the state. There were all kinds of stories spreading, but none of the their conspiracies came to be. Seems like every time the democrats are in charge the "nuts" come out, and now with the "KING NUT" Beck stirring up the nuts, it's going to be even worse!

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

63. Yes. I saw a strange woman walk across my parents backyard

around to the other side of the house. I naturally went out to see who it was and what did she want and she told me she was with the census. I still couldn't quite figure out why she needed to walk around to the back of the house - I would have never seen her if she had just stayed to the front - she must have had to do it to hit the satellite.

Maybe the Census should send out letters to people in advance of stuff like this, just so people can be prepared. I wonder how many dogs in yards that woman encounters on a daily basis? Not tomention that there are people who just like to scream for others to get off their property. Remember a little while ago the woman who shot some little kid because the family got lost on some back roads and ended up on her property?

Maybe Census workers should be equipped with panic buttons that will send out thir own location if they encounter dangerous situations.

[Ian David]

14. They don't need more representatives in Congress, I guess. n/t

[patrice]

19. They know they will benefit from whatever the rest of us do, while they inspire secession.

[foxfeet]

23. In that area, resentment against the Feds goes back to the 18th century Whiskey Rebellion, at least.

It was a cultural issue as much as a political one. Scots-Irish settlers had a long history of distilling their own whiskey long before the government imposed a tax. The topography of the area lent itself both to clandestine distilleries and to isolation from the "outside" world. It's clear to me that this death was a homicide, but it remains unclear how much of the motivation we can attribute to RW hatred of the Feds versus long-standing tradition, not that the two are mutually exclusive. The tradition and attitudes surrounding moonshining have been extended to marijuana cultivation and meth labs. Drug sales provide a source of income in an area sorely lacking in job opportunities. Until we have more facts, it remains possible that Sparkman was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and fell afoul of some nasty drug runners. As a native of the area, he was almost certainly aware of the dangers, so is unlikely, IMHO, to have taken unnecessary risks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Little earlier than that, but yes

In Kentucky goes back to the revenuers and government troops of King George during the American Revolution.

In the home country, it goes back to the distrust of the crown

Props for knowing this by the way.

[foxfeet]

54. I grew up in WV, on the other side of the Big Sandy river.

I know whereof I speak.:P

[TicketyBoo]

44. What makes you think he was "a native of the area"?

As a native of the area, he was almost certainly aware of the dangers, so is unlikely, IMHO, to have taken unnecessary risks.

I heard Thursday on MSNBC that he had recently moved to the area.

[foxfeet]

53. That was my original understanding.

I see this morning that his mother reported that he had moved to Kentucky to work with the Boy Scouts and became a substitute teacher in a county adjacent to the one where his body was found. He had also done work for the Census Bureau as early as 2003. So, apparently he was not a native in that he wasn't actually born there but was a relatively long-term resident. Certainly he had been there long enough to be aware of the dangers of the drug trade

[sohndrsmith]

29. has there been an official/formal determination subsequent to the autopsy from the Medical Examiner?

If not, we're speculating. As obvious as something may or may not be... it's still speculation, no?

EDIT: my apologies. You're OP does say "apparently". Clearly, we agree this is nothing other than speculation.

[Odin2005]

42. Domestic Terrorism.

[ribrepin]

43. I worked for the census in 1990 (processing forms)

They used to send census takers out to citizens who hadn't responded. I think it was a wasted effort in many cases. The people often refused to answer the questions or weren't home. Sometimes we'd get a form that stated the respondent made several hundred thousand a year and a note that the respondent appeared drunk. Not many people in the county made over 100,000 at the time. Some parts of our county were considered dangerous...rural areas with people making meth.

I think the government should send the forms out and not make any effort to contact the people who don't respond and if some states get shorted on representives...too bad. Let the damn politicians in the state get people to respond. Some of this you can lay at the door of right-wing politicians who are stirring up this fear of census takers. Let them handle it themselves if they want to get their fair share of representatives.

I love to see Minority Leader Mitch McConnell going door to door in Kentucky getting people to return their forms so Kentucky gets a fair share of representatives.

[Trillo]

46. What do you think "Fed", or was it "FED" or "fed", means? n/t

[TheKentuckian]

48. Looks pretty clear that foul play was involved and some serious indicators

of why.

This has likely been heading in the same direction the whole way. It was sat on for 10 days and the feds are still here. The most likely thing is what people suspect, the whole suicide angle was a huge stretch. The sad thing is that I doubt they figure out who did this unless the GPS has clues or they luck across tire tracks somewhere or something.

[B Calm]

50. So when is the census bashing congress woman from Minnesota going to stop

[JNelson6563]

51. Been thinking about this

You know, not long after William the Conquerer came to the throne of England, he commissioned the "Domesday Book" which was, essentially, a census. We're talking some hostile territory there. In my studies of the time there is no mention anywhere of the census takers of the 11th century getting killed.

Our special section of America has managed to out-barbarian the 11th century. :toast:

Julie