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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 10:23 PM
Original message
I attended a 912/Teabagger Meeting
This past week, there was a meeting at my local library of a group called "The Liberty League". There were about 12 attendees and the leader had some of the same sort of mannerisms as Glennn Beck. They all seemed to be very benign, pleasant people, but I think it's because they didn't know they had an spy in there midst.

The program was about W. Cleon Skousen's book, "The 5,000 Year Leap".

It "explains" how the founding of our nation brought about an incredible acceleration of human advancement that took us from plowing fields with sticks to landing on the moon.

Most of the time was spent watching a video with Dr. Earl Taylor who talked about how Skousen condensed the principles of the founding fathers into "28 Principles of Liberty".

These "principles" are the foundation of good government. Every piece of legislation should be in line with these principles, or it's a bad idea.

I recorded most of the meeting with my digital voice recorder, and plan to attend and record more meetings. I want to understand why/how people believe the crap that they do.

There was alot of "frames" employed throughout the program and I hope to insert/challenge those frames with progressive ones.

Some further reading/watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU6rAjoB8IA
Dr. Earl Taylor vid

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/09/16/beck_skousen/index.html
Meet the man who changed Glenn Beck's life
Cleon Skousen was a right-wing crank whom even conservatives despised. Then Beck discovered him


http://www.theamericanparty.org/index.php/the-news/142-28-principles-of-liberty

The following is a brief overview of the principles found in The 5,000 Year Leap, and one chapter is devoted to each of these 28 principles.

Principle 1 - The only reliable basis for sound government and just human relations is Natural Law.

Natural law is God's law. There are certain laws which govern the entire universe, and just as Thomas Jefferson said in the Declaration of Independence, there are laws which govern in the affairs of men which are "the laws of nature and of nature's God."

Principle 2 - A free people cannot survive under a republican constitution unless they remain virtuous and morally strong.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Benjamin Franklin

Principle 3 - The most promising method of securing a virtuous people is to elect virtuous leaders.

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend to the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue, and who ... will not suffer a man to be chosen into any office of power and trust who is not a wise and virtuous man." - Samuel Adams

Principle 4 - Without religion the government of a free people cannot be maintained.

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.... And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion." - George Washington

Principle 5 - All things were created by God, therefore upon him all mankind are equally dependent, and to him they are equally responsible .

The American Founding Fathers considered the existence of the Creator as the most fundamental premise underlying all self-evident truth. They felt a person who boasted he or she was an atheist had just simply failed to apply his or her divine capacity for reason and observation.

Principle 6 - All mankind were created equal.

The Founders knew that in these three ways, all mankind are theoretically treated as:

1. Equal before God.
2. Equal before the law.
3. Equal in their rights.

Principle 7 - The proper role of government is to protect equal rights, not provide equal things.

The Founders recognized that the people cannot delegate to their government any power except that which they have the lawful right to exercise themselves.

Principle 8 - Mankind are endowed by God with certain unalienable rights.

"Those rights, then, which God and nature have established, and are therefore called natural rights, such as are life and liberty, need not the aid of human laws to be more effectually invested in every man than they are; neither do they receive any additional strength when declared by the municipal laws to be inviolable. On the contrary, no human legislation has power to abridge or destroy them, unless the owner shall himself commit some act that amounts to a forfeiture." - William Blackstone

Principle 9 - To protect human rights, God has revealed a code of divine law.

"The doctrines thus delivered we call the revealed or divine law, and they are to be found only in the Holy Scriptures. These precepts, when revealed, are found by comparison to be really a part of the original law of nature, as they tend in all their consequences to man's felicity." - William Blackstone

Principle 10 - The God-given right to govern is vested in the sovereign authority of the whole people.

"The fabric of American empire ought to rest on the solid basis of the consent of the people. The streams of national power ought to flow immediately from that pure, original fountain of all legislative authority." - Alexander Hamilton

Principle 11 - The majority of the people may alter or abolish a government which has become tyrannical.

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes ... but when a long train of abuses and usurpations ... evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." - Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence

Principle 12 - The United States of America shall be a republic.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
And to the republic for which it stands...."

Principle 13 - A Constitution should protect the people from the frailties of their rulers.

"If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.... you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself." - James Madison

Principle 14 - Life and liberty are secure only so long as the rights of property are secure .

John Locke reasoned that God gave the earth and everything in it to the whole human family as a gift. Therefore the land, the sea, the acorns in the forest, the deer feeding in the meadow belong to everyone "in common." However, the moment someone takes the trouble to change something from its original state of nature, that person has added his ingenuity or labor to make that change. Herein lies the secret to the origin of "property rights."

Principle 15 - The highest level of prosperity occurs when there is a free-market economy and a minimum of government regulations.

Prosperity depends upon a climate of wholesome stimulation with four basic freedoms in operation:

1. The Freedom to try.
2. The Freedom to buy.
3. The Freedom to sell.
4. The Freedom to fail.

Principle 16 - The government should be separated into three branches .

"I call you to witness that I was the first member of the Congress who ventured to come out in public, as I did in January 1776, in my Thoughts on Government ... in favor of a government with three branches and an independent judiciary. This pamphlet, you know, was very unpopular. No man appeared in public to support it but yourself." - John Adams

Principle 17 - A system of checks and balances should be adopted to prevent the abuse of power by the different branches of government.

"It will not be denied that power is of an encroaching nature and that it ought to be effectually restrained from passing the limits assigned to it." - James Madison

Principle 18 - The unalienable rights of the people are most likely to be preserved if the principles of government are set forth in a written Constitution.

The structure of the American system is set forth in the Constitution of the United States and the only weaknesses which have appeared are those which were allowed to creep in despite the Constitution.

Principle 19 - Only limited and carefully defined powers should be delegated to government, all others being retained by the people.

The Tenth Amendment is the most widely violated provision of the bill of rights. If it had been respected and enforced America would be an amazingly different country than it is today. This amendment provides:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Principle 20 - Efficiency and dispatch require that the government operate according to the will of the majority, but constitutional provisions must be made to protect the rights of the minority.

"Every man, by consenting with others to make one body politic under one government, puts himself under an obligation to every one of that society to submit to the determination of the majority, and to be concluded by it." - John Locke

Principle 21 - Strong local self-government is the keystone to preserving human freedom.

"The way to have good and safe government is not to trust it all to one, but to divide it among the many, distributing to every one exactly the functions he is competent . - Thomas Jefferson

Principle 22 - A free people should be governed by law and not by the whims of men.

"The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings, capable of laws, where there is no law there is no freedom. For liberty is to be free from restraint and violence of others, which cannot be where there is no law." - John Locke

Principle 23 - A free society cannot survive as a republic without a broad program of general education.

"They made an early provision by law that every town consisting of so many families should be always furnished with a grammar school. They made it a crime for such a town to be destitute of a grammar schoolmaster for a few months, and subjected it to a heavy penalty. So that the education of all ranks of people was made the care and expense of the public, in a manner that I believe has been unknown to any other people, ancient or modern. The consequences of these establishments we see and feel every day . A native of America who cannot read and write is as rare ... as a comet or an earthquake." John Adams

Principle 24 - A free people will not survive unless they stay strong.

"To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace." - George Washington

Principle 25 - "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations -- entangling alliances with none."- Thomas Jefferson, given in his first inaugural address.

Principle 26 - The core unit which determines the strength of any society is the family; therefore the government should foster and protect its integrity.

"There is certainly no country in the world where the tie of marriage is more respected than in America, or where conjugal happiness is more highly or worthily appreciated." Alexis de Tocqueville

Principle 27 - The burden of debt is as destructive to human freedom as subjugation by conquest.

"We are bound to defray expenses within our own time, and are unauthorized to burden posterity with them.... We shall all consider ourselves morally bound to pay them ourselves and consequently within the life of the majority." - Thomas Jefferson

Principle 28 - The United States has a manifest destiny to eventually become a glorious example of God's law under a restored Constitution that will inspire the entire human race.

The Founders sensed from the very beginning that they were on a divine mission. Their great disappointment was that it didn't all come to pass in their day, but they knew that someday it would. John Adams wrote:

"I always consider the settlement of America with reverence and wonder, as the opening of a grand scene and design in Providence for the illumination of the ignorant, and the emancipation of the slavish part of mankind all over the earth."
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Were people encouraged to buy the book?
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. If you wanted to buy the book, we had to meet outside of the library.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. My theory is this tea party "movement" is a big marketing scam...
To promote RW products.

Did you get that sense?

Thanks for going to that meeting, btw, your account of it was very interesting.
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. Yep. It helps move their message if they can create marketing proselytizers. In fact,
Dr. Earl Taylor uses the term "packages" during the video.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. It is necesary to understand how they think
thanks for this.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. "Restored Constitution", yeah right. "Replace Constitution" is more like it.
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appamado amata padam Donating Member (301 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. Ouch, that is dragging yourself through some dark trenches,
for the benefit of your Comrades.

Thank you.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. There are several of those in East Texas.
They are on meetup.

All I got on Meetup in East Texas is Glenn Beck groups, Libertarian, Ayn Rand, 9/12 groups, and Jews for Jesus. GAKKK!!



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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm betting your notes are better than others in attendence...
... Also, it would be interesting to see how this group ebs and tides while you continue to dissect it at its roots.

Creepy it might be, but you're doing the work of a true journalist. Do you plan to write?
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Yes. I am planning on it which is why I'm recording the meetings.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Without Religion the government of a Free people cannot be maintained????
Frak! that!

Religion is oppressive and enslaving.
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Creena Donating Member (501 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. +1
Religion is the creation of man. It is used by man to control man.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. There is a great deal that is lost due to Religion and I mean more than lives and money.
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Creena Donating Member (501 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I've seen it with my own family.
Of course not all spiritual or religious people are swindled, and some find great happiness with faith, but there is great room for corruption.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. Somehow any kind of organization in religion's referent seems anti-thetical to what a "god" would be
, i.e. antithetical to omnipotentence, to me anyway, so religion seems so completely peripheral to the reality of the "thing" that religion only refers to. Religion is un-necessary.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Religion CAN support, but it is not equivalent to Freedom. It is not the sine qua non of Freedom.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. nor of Virtue /nt
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. Absolutely. Virtue would not be real if it required Religion.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
26. It shouldnt be
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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
31. "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich"



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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. Good Job! Please carry on!
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
33. Thank you. The Five Thousand Year Leap: 30 Year Anniversary Edition with Glenn Beck Foreword
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Does Glenn Beck get a cut?
I'm betting he does. He getting even richer with this 9-12 scam to Fleece the Freepers.
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. It's like a cult. They pay him to take his orders! n/t
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. "Virtuous and morally strong"
It will be interesting to watch an apology for indefinite detention and torturing people to madness or death, and whether that fits under "virtuous" or "morally strong."
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. Principle 15 = the Divinity of Property - and - ergo, Money shall be the Measure of ALL things.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. #4, right off the bat -Fallacy
Assumes that only the religious are virtuous.

As a religious person myself, I can say that this is complete and utter bullshit.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
19. The man was camping in the POT Forest for too long....campfires in tents will enhance
Mythos while rejecting Logos
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
38. That's just Drugist propoganda supporting the heavily subsidized Alcohol market.
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yes - all this and God lives on the planet Kolob... nt.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. And is White and has a big White beard.
laughable (to me)

intelligent, sensitive, open minded, kind to others, and responsible human beings don't have to be religious to be virtuous.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
30. I thought he was on Kobol with the other gods. /nt
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Lagomorph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
27. Glad to see someone out there doing their homework.
Unlike so many others, you'll make informed decisions about your future. Kudos for being brave enough to walk among those who may be different than yourself.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
28. Deep into the heart of a socialist library these people preach their propaganda.
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
29. Here's the audio link of the program
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. I'd appreciate any feedback about the audio. n/t
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
34. I saw that book at the bookstore. Insane rantings of a crazy man.
I've read that the late historian Carol Quigley called him a lunatic or something similar.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
35. Coming from a history teacher... I'd like to have a word with their history teachers.
:banghead:
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Dr. Earl Taylor, the "star" of the dvd is a 12th grade history teacher, and he demands that his
students memorize the "28 Principles" and has them give a report as to whether or not legislation meets the criteria set forward by the principles.

I shit you not.

Listen to the audio file link I provided.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. But I bet if he had them watch sicko or religulous or something...
All hell would have broken loose.

At what point does this become on the level of some sort of cult deal?
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #35
43. How historically accurate is the following excerpt from the book?
http://www.skousen2000.com/political%20products/fivethousand.htm

Excerpt from "The Five Thousand Year Leap":
Shades of the Primitive Past

The most striking thing about the settlers of Jamestown was their startling similarity to the ancient pioneers who built settlements in other parts of the world 5,000 years earlier. The whole panorama of Jamestown demonstrated how shockingly little progress had been made by man during all of those fifty centuries.

The settlers of Jamestown had come in a boat no larger and no more commodious than those of the ancient sea kings. Their tools still consisted of shovel, axe, hoe, and a stick plow which were only slightly improved over those of China, Egypt, Persia, and Greece. They harvested their grain and hay-grass with the same primitive scythes. They wore clothes made of thread spun on a wheel and woven by hand. They thought alcohol was a staple food. Their medicines were noxious concoctions based on superstition rather than science. Their transportation was by cart and oxen.

Most of them died young. Out of approximately 9,000 settlers who found their way to old Jamestown, only about 1,000 survived.

Why Jamestown Was Different

But potentially, Jamestown was different.

It was in Jamestown that communal economics were experimentally tried out by these European immigrants, who found them to be worse than Plato had described them. Eventually, it was in Jamestown that a system of free enterprise principles began to filter up through the years of "starving time" to impress on the settlers those dynamic ideas which were later refined and developed in Adam Smith's famous book, The Wealth of Nations.

It was among these early settlers of Virginia that a sufficiently large population finally congregated to permit the setting up of the first popular assembly of legislative representatives in the western hemisphere. The descendants of these Virginia settlers also produced many of the foremost intellects who structured the framework for the new civilization which became known as the United States of America. From among them came Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence; James Madison, "father" of the Constitution; George Washington, hero general of the War for Independence; George Mason, author of the first American Bill of Rights in Virginia.

Virginia was the largest of the thirteen colonies, with half-a-million inhabitants, and she furnished four of the first five Presidents of the United States.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Ugh... very poor!
Rome, Greece, and the Renaissance must have meant nothing... Then there's the advances during the "Dark Ages", in fact they were only dark for the Christian Church... Let's not talk about how the philosophies which the founding documents were based on were all done so by anti-Christian Church (probably agnostic), European (many French) writers.
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. At the 912 meeting, it was argued that Jamestown tried communism which is
why it started failing. It took the free enterprise system to rescue both Jamestown and Plymouth.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Yes because winter and a lack of food had nothing to do with it..
:banghead: I can't say I've ever heard the communism meme before... This is interesting... And so inaccurate. They're twisting the facts.

I'm more familiar with Plimouth (later spelled Plymouth). In their case, they became successful because a new "governor" (in a traditional sense) took over and mandated labor for all people. If you didn't work then you didn't eat. There are books written on vitamin deficiencies because of their diets, thinking that a lack of iron, Vitamin B, and a few others, were making colonists very lazy. Corn, while helpful, isn't the most nutritious fare. Then there's the starvation quantities of food they did have. There was a phrase used at the time in journals we still have for the "laziness" that overtook the colony... but for the life of me I can't remember what it was called just now. (Winter sickness, maybe??)

That's the closest thing I can think of to that communism meme. Of course, it's completely wrong.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
37. They lost me on principle #1.
There's 28 of 'em?

Sheesh!
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
41. this is great work- thanks for taking the time to attend and transcribe. There are actually
Edited on Sat Sep-26-09 06:33 PM by BREMPRO
principles that I would say many DUer agree with, separation of powers, quality education (which seems to fly in the face of the movement trying to cut funds to education), burden of debt, property rights, and i'm sure we agree on having more power to the people than corporations and special interests running govt. But the majority of the principles have religion/state lines blurred, The "Gods Law" as core to the constitution, and libertarian and revolutionary overtones that are way out of the mainstream. He is advocating basically for a Christian theocracy, ruled by "god's law" We know from the history of theocracies that they are more easily corrupted by demi-gods and tyrants, and not democratic but autocratic and intolerant- it flies in the face of secular right and reason. What are they planning to do? I saw some posts on YouTuber that basically were calling for armed rebellion. Fantasy?
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