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If you don't yet understand why the BAUCUS BOONDOGGLE MUST NOT PASS, Read these posts by Leo's Ghost

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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 12:02 PM
Original message
If you don't yet understand why the BAUCUS BOONDOGGLE MUST NOT PASS, Read these posts by Leo's Ghost
SUMMARY: The Baucus boondoggle:

1) Will be sold to dems as a STEPPING STONE TO SINGLE PAYER, WHEN IT IS NOT.

2) Creates mandatory insurance in order to SAVE BIG INSURANCE

3) Imposes FINES on the uninsured that are funneled back into BIG INSURANCE coffers

4) portrays the UNINSURED as DEADBEATS, not as VICTIMS

5) "In fact, the original paper Edwards and the folks in Massachusetts were backing made it clear that the idea was to SAVE the private health insurance INDUSTRY by strengthening their profits in order to PREVENT single payer and squeezing revenue from the people who fall between the cracks, like we do when lotteries pay for schools."

6) Fly by night insures will be set up to scam people into buying 'insurance' that will NEVER PAY A DIME.


Thanks Leopolds Ghost!


Personally, I think these issues apply to HR3200 as well. We should scrap these scams and go back to single payer, IMHO. http://pnhp.org



I read an extensive article about Mass plan back when Edwards was talking to Brookings Inst about it
(Posted by Leopolds Ghost)

Long before this hoopla.

The article made clear that it was an industry written paper (with industry-crafted $$ figures to determine how an individual mandate would save the health insurance industry by carefully calibrating the percentage driven to private versus public health care) and it described in detail (with sidebars and links to the Brookings paper) how the percentage who chose public health option would be required to be a small Matrix-style percentage of those who took the blue pill of accepting private coverage, since taxes on the new PRIVATE insurance consumers would go to pay for the few who got left behind.

An in between amount of people who do not qualify is built-in; much like Greenspan's "cushion of unemployed people" that he noted was necessary to sustain the US economy, these percentage get fined, and the fines ALSO (SIGNIFICANTLY) help pay for the limited public option as well as subsidies for the for-profit health industry to accept new guidelines;

The SHEER AMOUNT of the fine is calibrated on the basis of how many people the insurance lobbyists wanted to funnel into new private policies (vast majority) by using the fines to pay for the public option (the people who fall in neither and get fined pay for the latter,)

which incentivizes most to purchase existing private plans unless they have a "reason not to" according to the original math they sold this bill to the Dems with, thus proving the notion that this was a stepping stone or stalking horse for single payer -- an "elegant lie" told to a target audience of progressives.

It's EXACTLY the same way they sell transit improvements by making it clear that a consistent 90% of funds will go to parallel highway improvements, so if transit funding goes up, highway funding is protected, thereby justifying transit as an overflow valve benefiting motorists.

In the same way, the public option in this bill is designed (mathematically and actuarially) as an overflow valve.

In fact, the original paper Edwards and the folks in Massachusetts were backing made it clear that the idea was to SAVE the private health insurance INDUSTRY by strengthening their profits in order to PREVENT single payer.

and squeezing revenue from the people who fall between the cracks, like we do when lotteries pay for schools.

It also argued (and Hillary Clinton backed this up) that the majority of uninsured were "choice" consumers (ie. "deadbeats") who had irresponsibly "chosen" not to purchase when they could afford to, and could be charged more if forced to purchase (since they were being inelastically driven to purchase), thereby allowing them to charge existing consumers the same and not jack up the rates as baby boomers retire. Of course, those with prexisting conditions (who are being inelastically driven to purchase private health coverage -- the very OPPOSITE of trying to help these people) will also be charged more, we'd be fools not to think so.

Indeed, the plan is designed to increase insurance industry profits, i.e. revenues will go UP from all the uninsured being forced to purchase health insurance.

(I expect the US to mandate purchase of individual property and liability insurance next. DC and other "liberal" jurisdictions are already implementing the 15-year Gingrich plan to eliminate welfare and essentially criminalize non-property ownership.)

The Mass plan was held up as a model of the Brookings(?) plan in the same way the fact that there is no rent controlled housing in Boston thanks to Romney and "no one has suffered adversely" is held up as a model. When the alternative is a fine or imprisonment, people pay more for the necessities of life. Singapore is the ultimate model of the "individual responsibility" society.

I'm not saying Edwards and Brookings think tank (a war supporter) are in bed with the Health Industry lobbyists: These guys are Dems who came on to them first! The lobbyists publically said they wrote the package with out of power Dems as an overture on the basis that the insurance industry would go broke by the time Bush was finished and baby boomers retire. These guys are now staunch industry allies of the Democratic leadership.

(and yes, we need a link to the original paper)


Here is another brilliant post By the Ghost:

Read up on these "health services purchasing clubs" they're even worse.

Edited on Sat Sep-26-09 03:08 AM by Leopolds Ghost

They pretend to be insurance cos and I got put on their marketing list when I recently went shopping for individual health care and the blue-chip agencies sold my info to the marketers. Nearly got suckered in by one, and I am a very skeptical person. They had a fake fly-by-night website (complete with rotating fake office locations and ever changing names for their company and officers) that obfuscates their real website! They pretend to HAVE a deductible when in fact they aren't insurance at all and aren't required to pay you anything. And they're legal in many states and have friends in Congress - the new face of corruption I guess. People like me will be screwed to the wall under the new plan since the blue-chips will have no incentive whatsoever to cover me with 40 million person waiting list of required-by-law customers and a 10 million person waiting list for a downgraded public option that is run BY the same companies and paid for out of fines.

Check this one out:

Consumer Health Benefits Association - what a fraud!

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/consumer-heal...
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Add to that list
that if people can't pay for the mandatory insurance, they will be given a subsidy from our tax dollars that will go to the insurance companies. No wonder insurance stock went up.

The fact that any Democrat would sign on to such a give away to the insurance companies is mindboggling. I thought the democrats were more about the needs of the people over the needs of the corporations. I really hope we are all wrong about this and at the end of the day they will do the right thing and include a public option.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I shall
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. nothing surprises me coming from these weak ass dems and this Goldman Sachs admin
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Pelosi Says “F*&k You” to Trumka and the AFL-CIO
Pelosi Says “F*&k You” to Trumka and the AFL-CIO

By: Jane Hamsher Saturday September 26, 2009 11:17 am

please read this in it's entirety............

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/pelosi-says-fk-you-to-trumka-and-the-afl-cio/
snip;

It's notable that among the Change to Win unions, only the Teamsters came out against the Baucus bill. (Whoever sold Hoffa on ditching the public plan is no doubt talking fast and trying to explain why he is now being kicked in the face.)

Incoming AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka has been outspoken in his insistence on the inclusion of a public option in any health reform bill, and has threatened to withhold support from Democrats who won't vote for it. Over the past week there was a lot of winking in reports that the White House was leaning on progressive groups to drop their support for the public option. It absolutely did happen, but the use of the word "groups" is probably misleading -- the organization they are talking about, the only one that matters, is the AFL-CIO.

Since other unions outside the AFL-CIO are working the yo-yo on the trigger, Trumka is the lone holdout. He's the mainstay, and there is tremendous pressure building within the AFL in response to arm twisting from the White House for him to cave. And if he falls, it's going to be difficult for the rest of the veal pen not to follow suit. So, he's being directly threatened.

The message is clear: "Get in line or we pay for your precious 'public option' by fucking you on health care benefits."

If Trumka suddenly starts singing the praises of triggers (even if they instantly "yo-yo" it back and insist he was misquoted), you'll know it worked.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Great article!
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. WHY ARE WE SAVING THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY?
Why are we saving the banking industry and the financial sector?

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Exactly. Why does the Insurance Industry need SAVING???!!! That is insane.
Same for the other capitalist failures that we Socialist taxpayers are saving.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thank you. I'm sick of subsizing the rich with my tax dollars.
And to lurking conservative types, yes I have a job, and I pay a higher percent of my income in taxes than Goldman Sachs, which paid only 1% last year.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. what you are subsidizing is corporations so Congress critters and the White House can hold onto
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 08:54 AM by flyarm
power over you!

It's not a vast number of rich you are subsidizing..it is the Corporate power you are subsidizing! The very people that are controling you and our government ..both parties!


Senator Sanders Unfiltered: US Congress Bought & Paid For?

http://sandersunfiltered.com/

Who Owns Congress?
Over a year ago, we suffered the most significant financial collapse since the Great Depression, and the result of that is massive unemployment and underemployment. People lost their savings. People lost their homes. Now, despite the greed and illegal behavior of Wall Street, there is a massive effort to make sure that Congress does nothing about it. You know what? That might end up being the result.
How does it happen that Wall Street was able to convince Congress to deregulate their industry, to be in a position to bring the economy down? How does it happen that they are able to fend off serious efforts in Congress to try to re-regulate the financial institutions to protect the American people? Here’s the answer: In the last 10 years, Wall Street and big financial institutions have spent over $5 billion in campaign contributions and in lobbying activities. It doesn’t matter whether you are a Democrat or a Republican; if you have any influence they are going to go after you.



you gleefully ( in many cases not you in particular) watch their "NEWS" AND YOU ABSORB WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE!!..all the while they are all fucking you royally!!

The rich you speak of are a very few..and they are the elite..the Oprah's that goes to Bildeberg meetings ..as well as Obama who went to Bildeberg meetings..these people are picked for you..they only let you 'BELEIVE " YOU PICK THEM..YOU DO NOT.

They pit one party's people against the other.. to keep you distracted..they pay little fuckers to go on web sites to keep the truth from you...they have their ways to keep truth from you...and people fall for it every day!
They feed you little jingos//like "Change you can believe in"..all the while the person spewing that bullshit is on the take bigger than anyone ever has been! and is doing deals behind your back.

There are no "two parties" any longer..there is one party with one giant money pot in the middle. And you are not party to that money..it is a small club and none of the fuckers want to give up membership!

do your own homework ..you might be amazed at what you find!

It's the corporations getting your tax dollars..and the biggest corporate whores are in our White House and congress! Irregardless of party!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Chamber Of Commerce Attacks Schumer’s Public Option Amendments

By: Jon Walker Friday September 25, 2009 1:52 pm http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/25/chamber-of-commerce-attacks-schumers-public-option-amendments/

Live Pulse has a letter from the US Chamber of Commerce attacking four amendments that have yet to be voted on in the Senate Finance Committee. (Rockefeller C1 – Applying new rating rules to the large and self-insured (ERISA) market, Schumer C1/C2 – Public Option Amendments, Wyden C1 – Healthy Americans Act)

The Chamber attacked the two public option amendments from Schumer, but did not bother to mention Rockefeller's more robust public option amendment. The letter indicates that the Chamber must believe that Rockefeller's robust public option is already DOA.

The fact that the Chamber did feel the need to publicly go after the two Schumer public option amendments at least leads me to believe that they have some concern that the amendments might have a chance in the Senate Finance Committee or on the full Senate floor. The lobbying on both sides of the public option issue should get very heated over the weekend.

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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. +1 nt
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Senator Sanders and Representative Kucinich are my heroes. They speak the truth.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. me too!!!!!!!!!! eom
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. +1
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