Krugman: "I Was Kind Of Hoping Obama Might Be FDR, But Maybe Not" (VIDEO)

[democracy1st]

On "Real Time with Bill Maher" Friday night, New York Times columnist Paul Krugman said that while the American dream is not totally dead, it is "dying pretty fast," particularly when it comes to social mobility. Krugman made this statement during a lengthy discussion with former New York Governor Eliot Spitzer and host Bill Maher about the troubled state of the American economy and where we are in terms of reforming the system.

Both Krugman and Spitzer expressed optimism that America could right itself in the coming years if the correct steps were taken, but they were also highly critical of the degree of inequality that has become a part of American life and the lack of reform that has so far taken place.

"On bad mornings I wake up and think that we are turning into a Latin American country," Krugman said. "But on good mornings I think, well this is America, we have always in the past managed to turn ourselves around, and there is an FDR just around the corner if we could only find him. I was kind of hoping Obama might be FDR, but maybe not. "

WATCH:



Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/26/krugman-the-american-drea_n_300702.html

[Selatius]

1. If we had elected New Deal Democrats instead of Blue Dogs, we might not be hung up over health care.

We'd be steamrolling the Republicans right about now. There'd be a bloodbath on the Republican side, especially if we had actually found another FDR.

[Captain Hilts]

7. The Dem primaries went centrist too quickly, even if that was not to be the outcome. nt

[Romulox]

91. Hence the mania to protect the status of a tiny, rural, right-leaning state as the first primary. n

[DrDan]

11. there was a choice?

[dajoki]

66. I agree completely...

its time for us to put REAL Democrats in office, if that would have happened I think healthcare may have been solved. We need to steamroll the repubs!!

[amandabeech]

90. We have Blue Dogs. We also have a huge group of Wall Street Dogs.

The Executive Branch is full of the latter.

[YOY]

2. No mattter who the fuck we elect they are going to call him/her every damn name in the book.

We all know what is going to fix this and it fucking isn't Republican light.

I think even Obama knows this but his handlers won't let him say it.

[madmax]

3. Geez and he's had all of 8 months!!!!

:wtf: is taking him so damn long?

:sarcasm:

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Not Like FDR had success in 8 months

Oh, actually he did. And it wasn't with a banker bailout.

[RoyGBiv]

9. Can you define you terms?

By what do you measure FDR's success inside eight months?

[MadMaddie]

17. FDR had a congress that had backbone

Pelosi has been doing better but Reid is worthless.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Actually there was a bank holiday and a bank bail out

the whole bank holiday was meant to reform the system and yes, the FEDS did put in money into the system.

This was recommended by Keynes.

Of course most folks think FDR and they think Social Security... quick when was it passed and signed into law? Oh yes 1936.

The first term was rather conservative by any measure. And there is more... FDR was a PRAGMATIST.

I'd better stop.

By the way, this is by no means a defense of Obama... he has not gone far enough in the Keynseian Economics, or in pushing for reforms of the banking system, or breaking down the too big to fail monopolies.

[MannyGoldstein]

40. Bank Bailout?

There was a bank holiday, but I don't recall a bailout, certainly not one on the scale of guaranteeing one year's GDP worth of bad loans and/or allowing bank execs to take the money and pay it to themselves as bonuses. My recollection was that the feds shut down all banks, then reopened the ones found to be solvent.

Hoover on the other hand, like Obama, *did* shower the bankers with bailout cash while delivering finger-wagging lectures to everyone else about personal financial responsibility.

I could be wrong on all of this, and I'd appreciate your pointing to links if I am.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. Here you go

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2007/3409fdr_banks_33.html

There was an influx of money into the banking system. Nothing like what we saw, though what FDR did in the early days and what actually Bush's people did were similar, and were emergency surgery.

Me. I'd would have pushed a lot of reforms while staunching the bleeding.

They may still do the reforms, and yes, the stimulus did not go far enough... but hey... that's another story.

[MannyGoldstein]

85. Interesting, But Did You Check Your Source?

None other than Lyndon Larouche!

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. Oh sorry... no, given that this is standard, let me find you

another source.

I learned that not in LR mania, but... in graduate history courses

Here you go WIKI, and if that is not good enough, the sources at the bottom.

Weird, that LR was on top of the google machine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal

[DaveinJapan]

87. Are you talking about TARP?

If so, please stop saying Obama. He wasn't even President at the time.

This is the way history gets re-written, and plays right into the right wingers hands.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. There is a continuation of policy

between the TARP and the Obama administration. Actually far more than there was between Hoover and FDR.

Just for your info, and TARP is based on the General Theory by Keynes... and a little monetary theory thrown in...

I wish things were black and white in my world.

[DaveinJapan]

95. Who authorized the money is pretty black and white in my world...

naturally there's a continuation of the money flow into the Obama administration (amazingly Bush didn't spend the whole wad...that must have been difficult!), but he didn't initiate it.

And you insinuate that he did.

But he didn't.

How much more black and white can you get?

I followed the breathless "we need to pass it or we're DEAD!" hearings with BUSH in the White House pushing for it. There's no way to accuse President Obama of "showering the banks with money" without acknowledging who authorized the shower.

Is there?

[mix]

56. Roosevelt's early successes were astounding, and nothing demonstrates this better than this graph:

His accomplishments in his first 100 days were legendary and literally turned the economy around on a dime.

It is not wrong or unexpected to demand that the Obama administration accomplish the same, given the dire straits of our country, in fact it is quite bizarre not to.

[dajoki]

68. Yes...

and FDR did face opposition but he showed leadership and pushed to get his New Deal programs passed.

[MannyGoldstein]

86. But He Turned Goldman Sachs Around On A Dime

Why don't people give him credit for that?

[Moondog]

77. Eight months out of 48. His term is 1/6 over.

The last half of it will be spent running for re-election. That leaves about 16 months from now to get anything done. And it seems like we're slowing down, not speeding up. Just sayin' ....

[grahamhgreen]

82. Torture not prosected, pay or pay crapsurance giveaway, gitmo open for business, WAR WAR WAR $$$$$

He's abused my trust.

[Captain Hilts]

5. I wish. Who is Eleanor/Harry/Frances/Harold to Obama's FDR?

[Moondog]

78. To ask

that question is to answer it. Sadly.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. What does Krugman know about the economy?

He should relax and leave it in the hands of pros like Summers and Geithner.

[Jim Sagle]

8. That's right...they get paid to do what they do.

Man, do they EVER get paid. ;)

[ZombieHorde]

10. Obama is considerably better than FDR. nt

[KoKo]

12. Do you have a valid comparison? History or you lived through FDR?

I'm sure your opinion is based on comparisons...so it would be good to have some links to your thoughts on this for Discussion purposes.

Thanks!

:hi:

[ZombieHorde]

20. FDR rounded up U.S. citizens by race and placed them into camps.

These citizens lost their property and their freedom because they were the wrong ethnicity.

[anonymous171]

29. And Abraham Lincoln was a racist and wanted to send all the slaves back to Africa

Therefore Lincoln was a terrible president.

[ZombieHorde]

44. If that is your opinion, I will not argue against it. nt

[Deja Q]

31. Okay, so what America did at the time was wrong. If a similar war happens again,

how would you change things to ensure history doesn't repeat itself, while ensuring the baddies don't get a chance to blow up scores of other innocent people?

I too forget to do this at times, but it's usually nice to read even the most woolly idea in terms of not repeating old mistakes while ensuring some fair level of safety is maintained.

[ZombieHorde]

48. "how would you change things to ensure history doesn't repeat itself"

I would love to see a constitutional amendment prohibiting locking people up because of their ethnicity.

"while ensuring the baddies don't get a chance to blow up scores of other innocent people?"

Nothing will completely ensure our safety. GWB locked up many people in his illegal prisons, but I don't feel any safer for his efforts.

[amandabeech]

93. If this is the only thing that you remember from your history courses

about the more than 12 years of the FDR administration, then I simply do not know what to say.

[ZombieHorde]

94. Ha! This is not about my education. Nice try though. nt

[DrDan]

13. at what?

[Gabi Hayes]

18. basketball, bowling, walking, stuff like that

[DrDan]

24. "walking" - ok - trying not to snicker . . .that was not funny

[Gabi Hayes]

25. what are you talking about? I'm serious. seriously:

political management......no

public speaking...no

fireside chatting, or its equivalent....no

packing the courts....too early for that

fighting nazis.....no

fighting corporate fascists....no

surviving assassination attempts....again, too early to tell

[DrDan]

38. FDR was paralized from the waist down for about 25 years - wheelchair-bound

Thought you were making a joke.

btw - I agree with your subsequent post. . . . so far.

[Gabi Hayes]

42. I was making a joke, at first, I think

doesn't look much like things are going to 'change' much for the better, but then, I've always been an optimist

[ZombieHorde]

21. At not implementing institutional racism in the U.S. nt

[Romulox]

92. Ummm, prosecuting multiple wars of agression upon hated minorites

which is superior because it is being done on foreign soil (really a flimsy technicality in the case of Gitmo, donchyathink?)??? :shrug:

[RoyGBiv]

14. Not sure about better ...

Based on what we've seen these past 8 months, Obama seems to be making some of the same mistakes FDR made with regard to the economy.

I think where some of us, and perhaps Krugman, err is in viewing FDR's reforms through a time compressed lens. FDR's reforms were working as of 1937, albeit rather slowly. Of course, given the depths of the problem and the unfamiliarity our nation had in the federal government taking such a direct approach in tackling them, that's not all that surprising. Still, it took him some time to come around to implementing measures that did more than stop the bleeding.

What he did do differently than what Obama has done so far involves his rather rapidly laying the groundwork for many of the positive reforms that came, some of which came simply in the form of his attitude toward implementing real reform. That is, he was pretty much willing to try anything as long as it wasn't more of the same, nor based on the same policies his predecessors had followed. Obama hasn't made that kind of clean break yet.

In 1936-7, FDR did cave to conservative pressure, resulting in a rollback of much of the good his administration and Congress had managed in the preceding years. I find this an important point in the present context because it lends evidence to the idea that FDR wasn't the all-knowing god-like creature of song and story. Even he didn't understand the true nature of the problems, and in the name of bipartisanship, he screwed up.

I'll grant that I don't know what all Obama is up to, just as none of us truly know. The international diplomatic dealings he's had recently show pretty clearly that he has a far better grasp of things that many want to credit him for having and isn't going to put all his cards on the table for the peanut gallery to pick over. I share Krugman's concerns, but, overall, I don't know if such comparisons as the one he's making are even valid at this point. FDR took the better part of a decade to push the economy back in a positive direction.

[democracy1st]

15. you really are a zombie LOL

[ZombieHorde]

22. One would think zombies would like the race camps, since so many people would be locked up for our

dining convenience, but I just can't bring myself to overlook this trespass.

[anonymous171]

19. No. nt

[ZombieHorde]

23. I understand many DUers do not share my distaste for the institutional racism

created by FDR.

[anonymous171]

28. FDR did not create institutional racism. I don't see what you are getting at.

[ZombieHorde]

45. He did not create all institutional racism, but he did create his share.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

[RoyGBiv]

34. Created by FDR?

That's absurd.

[ZombieHorde]

46. It was absurd. nt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

[AllentownJake]

50. You must hate Earl Warren too

[ZombieHorde]

53. I did not claim to hate anyone. nt

[AllentownJake]

47. Institutional racism was created by FDR?

Was he a time traveler?

Our country was founded and built on institutional racism. That entire slave thing and killing off the native population thing we did for 250 years (if you include the colonial period) before FDR even took his first breath.

FDR had to function in a racist society.

[ZombieHorde]

51. There is a difference between creating web pages and inventing web pages.

FDR did not invent institutional racism, but he did create institutional racism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

"FDR had to function in a racist society. "

So does President Obama.

[AllentownJake]

55. President Obama has a better society on race to function in

Than that of FDR. People of other races were not permitted to go to school together, live in the same neighborhoods, or marry.

7 years before his presidency 200,000 Klansmen march on D.C.

You can say what you want about the Tea Baggers. They aren't an organized racial movement of 200,000 people in bed sheets. There were 110,000,000 people in 1925. In order to have a comparable march of out right racist on D.C in 2009 you'd need to have 600,000 people in bed sheets travel to the capital.

[ZombieHorde]

58. "say what you want about the Tea Baggers. They aren't an organized racial movement of 200,000 peop"

I hope the teabaggers do not develop into something more than they are.

"Than that of FDR. People of other races were not permitted to go to school together, live in the same neighborhoods, or marry.

This does not mean FDR had to increase the amount of institutional racism.

[mix]

59. This is a smear of FDR in the truest sense.

While true, you are denying FDR the credit he deserves. Think of it this way, without the New Deal it is unlikely that Nazism would be defeated and the US would win the war, along with the USSR and our other allies.

The internment of the Japanese is one the most shameful and unjust aspects of Roosevelt's many terms as president. The internment ranks alongside Native American genocide and slavery as one of the worst crimes against humanity in our country's history.

But that does not take away from the areas in which Roosevelt's policies were successful, such as stabilizing the economy and laying the foundation of America's post-WWII economic boom, defeating Nazism, and moving our economy and society in a more social-democratic direction.

[ZombieHorde]

60. Excellent post. Your post includes the good with the bad, this is what I wanted from this thread. nt

[mix]

64. I meant the internment of Japanese-Americans in my above post. nt

[alarimer]

41. Bullshit

He couldn't push FDR's wheelchair.

FDR actually welcomed the hate from the right, while Obama is a milquetoast, wishy-washy corporate apologist.

[ZombieHorde]

49. "He couldn't push FDR's wheelchair."

I assume this statement not meant literally, but I don't really know what statement means.

"Obama is a milquetoast, wishy-washy corporate apologist"

I would rather have a "wish-washy corporate apologist than a guy who rounds people up by ethnicity, takes away their property, and then locks them up.

[AllentownJake]

52. I wouldn't

We have Social Security and we had sound banking regulation for 40 years that allowed society to prosper. If at the end of his Presidency there is nothing that betters our society as a whole he was a waste and someone else should have got the opportunity. It's 8 months he still has 3 years 4 months and a possible second term.

The internment is a blight on our history, but in terms of shitty things we have done it doesn't even make the top 50.

[ZombieHorde]

54. What would you put in our top 50?

Slavery, Jim Crow, the treatment of the Native populations, Vietnam, Iraq, environmental naughtiness,...

[AllentownJake]

57. Those would make the list

I'm not defending the internment. However, in the list of United States crimes on humanity it is one of our smaller ones.

[mix]

61. You fail to understand how profoundly traumatic wrongful imprisonment is.

Also, you fail to appreciate what it is like to be officially branded a threat to the country of your citizenship, without any more evidence than your skin color and cultural background, and then to have this declaration unleash the racial violence and hatred of your neighbors. Not only were Japanese-Americans left with this legacy of suspicion and prejudice against them, many lost their businesses and livelihoods.

This was a crime against humanity without justification.

[AllentownJake]

62. I never said it was a good thing

If you take an honest look at the shitty things we have done since 1776, this unlawful internment was awful. However, we've been involved in far more nefarious things.

[mix]

67. "Crimes against humanity" is a legal term.

Government targeting of groups or populations is one of the its most basic principles. Political persecution and imprisonment are other basic criteria needed to meet the definition of crimes against humanity. The internment of Japanese-Americans has fit the definition of "crimes against humanity" for as long as this legal term has been in existence.

For such extreme historical events, extreme in the sense of losing lives and/or rights, an understanding of their significance is done best from within a legal framework, since it gives people a standard to work with. Scale here is not as relevant as the crime itself and its legal definition of targeted victims.

Such rigid definitions are not only intended to protect people and their rights, but allow for the prosecution of the guilty.

[AllentownJake]

70. I never said it was not a crime

I'm saying in degree of crimes committed by past and the future, this crime is lesser in degree than other crimes we have committed.

[frog92969]

16. I'd say more like Woodrow Wilson

minus the racism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson

[anonymous171]

30. I'd have to agree. He has that cerebral edge

And he has the same progressive intellectual "elite" mindset that Wilson had.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

26. I am going to have to disagree with Krugman here, the last thing i want Obama to be is FDR

or any other earlier American president or person for that matter

The easiest way to get start causing a massive mess and muddle things up is trying to be somebody else, as such the only person i want Obama to be is Obama. Its who he is and its who he should be and nobody else.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

27. I would like him to be more like FDR, but I never expected him to be the next FDR.

[Toasterlad]

32. At This Point, I'd Settle For Jimmy Carter.

"FDR". That's a good one.

[anonymous171]

36. So you want him to be noble but incompetent?

:shrug:

[Toasterlad]

39. Absolutely.

Better that, than his constant pandering to the right wing, which renders him SPINELESS and incompetent, since nothing gets done.

[depakid]

33. "...we are turning into a Latin American country,"

That's exactly right- and apparently a lot of people want it to be that way.

[anonymous171]

35. The beast that we created is turning on us.

We are getting a taste of what we have been doing to Latin America all these years. Shit sucks :(

[BillDU]

43. Obama is Obama

When, in his campaign or otherwise did Obama personally ever tell anyone that he was going to be FDR?
I can understand somebody's admiration for Presidents past however
other people aren't guilty for not being someone else.

[AllentownJake]

63. I think what people mean

is they want a reformer. Both Roosevelts were reformers whose reforms enabled our country to have the prosperity it enjoyed throughout the 20th century.

When someone says they want an FDR, they want someone who will stand up to the business interest which are crippling our economy, much in the way they were doing in the 1920s and enable American society to prosper.

[BillDU]

65. Continued

I think those are admirable pursuits.
Obama in my opinion is better off being Obama
FDR did not concern himself with being Lincoln, or Washington.
The times he lived in called for an assesment of the current situation.
Which gives him the freedom to do what's necessary instead of living up to expectations of somebody who lived in a different age and different circumstances.
You seem to me to be a very intelligent and more diplomatic person.
I admire that.

[AllentownJake]

69. President Obama is not going to be a transformational President

I realized that when I saw his cabinet picks. He is going to be very status quo in a time when in my opinion that some radical thinking and action is necessary. It depends on how you view this time in history. If you view this economic situation as a speed bump that just needs to have some time and attention into the right stimulus areas than President Obama is the type of guy you love.

If you view it as the start of a collapse that has been building from 30 years of bad economic policy led by corporate interest that did not take into account the future health of the nation, than President Obama is someone who is a kinder gentler face of the same thing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6639853&mesg_id=6639853

Are my thoughts on the matter.

[BillDU]

73. We'll see

He already transformed Washington.
We'll see

[AllentownJake]

79. How has he transformed Washington

Please enlighten me.

[BillDU]

80. oh Man

Why don't you ask the teabaggers.

[BillDU]

81. Squuze me

Sorry that's a cheap shot
Get back to you later
not the best time right now.

[Libertas1776]

71. I think people are reading way too much into

Krugman's statements. You're making it sound like he wanted Obama to be exactly like FDR,
maybe down to the T...


Seriously, though, I think what he means is that he wanted Obama to be a powerful force for reform. The kind of charismatic figure (Which I believe he has)that FDR was, that lifted up this country out of the depths of a Depression. I think what we, including Krugman, did was get caught up with Obama mania, painting him as somebody who had the potential left leaning force of FDR, but ended up being pretty flat centrist. Basically, we got our hopes up.

In this time of great uncertainty and crisis, we desperately need a revolutionary figure that brings about a mass wave of change, not bipartisanship and compromise with the corporate party and the preservation of the most corrupt system this country has ever seen.

[AllentownJake]

72. Problem is we are the corporate party lite

Democrats are as status quo as it goes. The democratic party for the past 30 years has walked hand in hand with the GOP as the things that protected the future of this country were stripped away.

How many democrats supported Free Trade, How many Democrats voted to strip away the new deal reforms, how many democrats voted for the tax cuts and the wars?

[BillDU]

74. Lightly gliding

The democrats were assaulted
Wellstone
Anthrax
The repubs are yesterday
Now

[BillDU]

75. Giants

Yeah so Ok
We have a portions of our government
that is anthrax capable
is capable bringing down planes
Nevertheless
the politicians are going to shake a finger at them and turn them into model citizens.
You don't see the monster.
Your just quibling about change.

[ProSense]

76. It's amazing people are jumping on what appears to be an off-the-cuff statement by Krugman. Still

if taken literally, there is no way to make a definitive statement on the transformation nature of Obama's Presidency. Time will reveal Obama's impact, both domestically and internationally.

The potential is there---from Obama's budget to health care reform to climate change.

Obama to chair historic U.N. council nuclear meeting

G20 to Become Forum for Global Economic Cooperation

[grahamhgreen]

83. Obama is unfortunately giving socialism bad name because his policies are

Actually more like fascism than socialism. Yet he is being sold by the corporate media as a socialist, which he is not.

Every desicion funnels more tax money into corporate coffers.

Except the desicions to allow the state to render people, that is, kidnap and torture someone in a secret prison.

IMHO