Boy, did I have an experience this week...

[PCIntern]

I went to a continuing education course given by a well-known local specialist whom I don't particularly like personally, whose work is not all that great dentally, but is recognized throughout the USA for his dento-political work in organizations and he is also a member of the lucky-sperm club - his dad was also 'famous'. As many of our com-padres here are in the profession, he's Jewish. But that's incidental...or at least WAS until this meeting.

So the gentleman begins his talk by saying that it's great to be here in Philly with all the familiar faces blah blah blah, and then, accurately and humorously, stated that it is harder to speak in your hometown because everyone knows your faults intimately. Pretty self-effacing...and a 'good line' especially at these meetings...because it's TRUE.

At that point, this other dentist who happens to be professionally-politically connected but in different circles, said REALLY SNIDELY, and I'm quoting EXACTLY (because I'll never forget THIS), "Well, if you were a Christian, you would know that even Jesus wasn't welcomed in his home town."

The speaker to his credit, said, "I guess I'm going to have to catch up on my reading." and went on.

After the presentation, my Gentile buddy who came to the lecture with me started apologizing for what this moran said." I asked him, Did YOU say that crap?" He replied, "No..." So I said, "Don't apologize to me...go over and tell that putz that he was out of line, and that even if he were born again, that statement had no place in a secular public forum." Of course, that didn't happen.

In all these years of going to functions, I have never heard anyone say anything like that and believe me, we have our share of evangelicals and proselytizers. This country is collectively losing its dignity, its propriety, and its hesitancy to withhold racism and other forms of bigotry.

When I ran into the speaker a couple days later, I asked him it he thought that the moran believed that he was at the joint Session of Congress rather than at a dental meeting. OF course he gave me a PC reply, and said that he didn't take any offense. I responded by saying, well, you sure couldn't have come to that conclusion watching your eyes and body language at the instant it was uttered. He, of course, didn't respond.

So it goes...

[ensho]

1. the religiously insane are getting bolder because

of what they are hearing on the radio and TV by paid propagandists

they are dangerous people.

[Fumesucker]

4. They are also getting more bold because very few will stand up to them and call them on their bs

How often do we hear this kind of crap and no one says anything at all?

Until those who spout this garbage are made aware on a regular basis that this sort of thing is highly offensive then it will continue to get worse.

[ensho]

10. true

nt

[malaise]

18. They are emboldened by silence which is why

when any of them say a word to me in a public or private space I give them one warning followed by a few words starting with FUCK YOU.

[mike_c]

21. agree with other respondants-- they are emboldened by silence...

...and by misplaced "tolerance." It just doesn't make sense to tolerate delusional superstitions just because they're what someone "believes." We don't tolerate conservative ideology-- we struggle to overcome it and keep it out of public policy. Why should rational people not struggle against religious insanity too?

[roody]

2. Courtesy is dying in this country. I know that because I teach school.

[Better Today]

3. How is the "Christian" comment any worse than your comment,

"As many of our com-padres here are in the profession, he's Jewish."

The "Christian" comment would have been unpleasant for anyone not Christian or Muslim, but you feel it necessary to let us know that it was anti-semetic as though that makes it worse. Still using religion to justify a stance, imo, and equally offensive to the "Christian" remark.

Would you have considered it equally bigoted and racist if it were said to an atheist?

Then I notice you seem to want to stir the speaker's animosity toward the heckler which is stirring up your own variety of bigotry.

Normally I like and respect your posts, this one seems very offensive to me and not up to your usual consideration.

[CoffeeCat]

5. How is acknowledging that...

many in your profession are Jewish--a bad thing?

Many dentists are Jewish. I don't see anything bad about that.

I don't get it.

[scarletwoman]

7. Huh? Pointing out the speaker is Jewish puts the comment from the heckler in context.

The heckler said, "If you were a Christian...". How would that make any sense unless we (and the heckler) already knew that the speaker was NOT a Christian? Stating that the speaker is Jewish is a simple statement of fact.

[Better Today]

16. Fair enough to simply say he wasn't a Christian, imo. The lead to his being

Jewish escalates the concept of anti-semitism rather than escalating the point of Christian intolerance. That to me is as bad as the Christian's intolerance.

Perhaps being an atheist and an Armenian, I am a tad sensitive to the idea that jews need so much protectionism while the rest of us who are discounted by jews, and treated equally badly by Christians are considered so much dust under the rug.

[PCIntern]

19. Whoa Nellie...

I wasn't talking about protectionism...OBVIOUSLY, if the speaker were a Gentile (and I use that word to distinguish from "Christian" which might imply certain overtones) then the comment by the individual might not have been made b/c he might not know whether that speaker was a 'fellow traveler' as it were. The fact this the speaker is a Jewish individual made it clear to the commenter that he could be 'pilloried'.

Maybe as an Armenian you should understand why each of us in our own way may need a certain amount of 'protectionism', since your people were masscred as well and I would defend your right to take umbrage at a statement directed against you by one of, say, Turkish descent. As far as being an Atheist, we are talking more about the speaker's ethnic background than his practice of Judaism, and BTW, the word 'Jew' is capitalized, and since you didn't perform that function with the Shift key twice, I gather that it was deliberate. If not, my apologies to you.

[Gormy Cuss]

9. Context is important.

The OP stated his own observation that there are many Jews in his profession (at least in his environs) thus the speaker was far from being the only Jew in the room. Since the Christian dentist works in the same area I think it's safe to assume that he's also aware of the demographics so why would he find it appropriate or relevant to bring up Jesus in that way in that place other than to make a point about his "superior" faith?

An atheist wouldn't have said such a thing. There'd be no point.

[PCIntern]

15. Yes, exactly...

thank you both for your explanation of the obvious situation. I've been busy with an emergency in the office and didn't get a chance to look at the ensuing posts.

[crim son]

11. You're kidding, right?

You don't see the difference? Nah. That would be stupid.

[PCIntern]

17. Wow...I guess I better

spell things out more clearly in the future...

[varelse]

6. Kudos for your reply to your buddy - it was perfect

instead of apologizing for others, stand up to them. Well said. :thumbsup:

[Ikonoklast]

8. Just goes to show you that education still can't overcome boorishness.

Or willful stupidity.

[BillDU]

12. Responses

Possibly:
Well I'm an American and as an American I have a constitutional right to freedom of Religion which means, irregardless of whether you like it or not, I don't need to be a Christian. I'm something else and as such nevertheless am capable of recognizing my limits.

[question everything]

13. A friend of mine finally quit his job

he will be retained as a consultant, though, at less income, of course, with being responsible to pay for COBRA for a year, or so, and the full SS and Medicare taxes.

He just could not take it anymore. When a new computer was installed and lunch brought in - it started with blessing of the food and thanking Jesus.

When my friend worked his ass saving this company from a Federal Consent Decree, the owner thanked... Jesus.

And, of course, he still has the W on his car.

Most other employees in that company, all Evangelicals or pretend to be so, are "not happy" for having to pay for health care for "those" people.

If my friend were, say, 10 years younger, he could not have afforded to do so, not with a family to support.

So I can understand the speaker's reaction. There are very few of us, especially during economic uncertainty, who can afford to risk our livelihood by openly standing up for what we believe.

At least, we no longer have an administration that awards contracts and jobs to people and companies based on their Evangelical fervor. Though I still wish that Obama eliminated any faith based program altogether. It is not as if keeping it prevents people from claiming that he is a Muslim or Satan - the same thing for them.

[bertman]

14. It doesn't matter what you say to these christian asshats who feel the need to proselytize

at every opportunity. They activate their "incoming logic blocker shields" by congratulating themselves that Jesus is the one true savior and that their god is the one true god.

People who have this level of disregard for others and this level of adherence to biblical dogma are dangerous to democracy and the freedoms of us all.

[lunatica]

20. This has been happening since 9/11

First it was being accused of being un-patriotic. They don't hide their hatred for Muslims or Jews, or even Catholics. I'm sure they have special place reserved in hell for Atheists. They've always jingoistic and hate illegal aliens, and even legal ones for that matter. And is there any need to remind anyone what they think of blacks?

This didn't just start yesterday. But it has found some very loud mouth pieces who can keep the fear based hatred red hot.

[Hepburn]

22. Wow...

...that was really out of line.

[Vinca]

23. Maybe he was just an unfunny guy trying to tell a Jesus joke.

In any case, I guess you can be grateful he didn't invoke Hitler's name.