Some things you may not have noticed about this Polanski business..

[TreasonousBastard]

the curious timing of this just after Atkinson died and a documentary has been made

that the US government was minimally involved, and it was entirely the LA prosecutors office pushing this

the LA DA was working in the prosecutors office when Polanski was indicted

the judge in the original case, who prided himself on being tough on celebrities, agreed to a couple of weeks in jail but then reneged on the deal

the original victim of the crime is no longer a teenager, and she and her family have made it known that Polanski and they have come to terms so it is far behind them and the DA is doing them no favors by bringing this up again

(Ahh... once again the cries of the righteous demanding the last drop of the blood of retribution. Must be music to some ears...)

[vadawg]

1. doe3s not matter what the victim wants, its the state that charged him

HE RAPED AND DRUGGED A CHILD

cant believe the people who are defending this guy.....

[cliffordu]

5. IIRC,

Her mother put her up to it, and he wasn't the first star mom had tried this with.

Maybe she should be in jail, too.

:shrug:

[AllentownJake]

6. Her mother should probably be in jail as well

However, if I win the powerball tommorow or create some great work of art is it ok for me to start drugging and raping 13 year olds.

[cliffordu]

8. I think it was Jack Nicholson, maybe Peter Fonda - who got away asap.**

As I recall the girl's mother was trying to pimp her all over town.

He ought to be in prison, but everyone involved should be, too.


I'd never say it was ok, in fact, I'd let a crowd beat someone to death for it.

[Liquorice]

9. That's not true, according to the victim. This kind of bullshit is why

girls and women don't report it when they are raped. Her mother is not to blame. ROMAN POLANSKI is solely reponsible for raping that girl.


"We shot a roll of film; then he asked me to take off my shirt and took topless photos while I changed. I let him do it, but I felt self-conscious. I was thinking, "I shouldn't be doing this," but I was a kid, so I thought if it wasn't okay, he wouldn't tell me to do it. If I'd told my mom, she would never have let me go with him the second time. When he made another appointment a few weeks later, she had no reason to suspect anything."

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20124052,00.html

[cliffordu]

46. Maybe reading the press reports from the time - in particular

a rolling stone article, IIRC.....


The girl is the victim here, and he needs to go to jail for that.

Mom got rich, like any pimp, and had offered the girl up before.

And THAT ain't why people don't report it.

Who the fuck settles out of court on a rape charge??

[TreasonousBastard]

13. Who's defending him? I find the story, and the outrage surrounding it...

to be fascinating.

But, if the victim wanted him drawn and quartered, would you still say it makes no difference what she wants?

(And, since another judge has already found flaws in the original sentencing and hinted that he could be free of all jail time if and when he shows up, it almost makes no difference at all what anyone wants.)

[LisaL]

15. Yes if she wanted his head on a silver platter she would not be

allowed to do it.
Really in our justice system victims do not decide what the punishment should be.

[TreasonousBastard]

40. Often they do, with victims impact statements. But these..

statements are rarely used in the defense of the accused and are often used in the sentencing phase to get a harsher sentence.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. Given that I use the same argument frequently against the death penalty, yes

If a victim's family members want the murderer put to death doesn't mean we should do it. Justice is about society, not about the victims. Likewise just because the victim in this case has come to terms with this, doesn't mean that it's best for society to let him off.

[TreasonousBastard]

41. I make the same arguments about victim impact statements...

and usually see them as shameless manipulation of the jury, or parole boards, by the prosecution.

But, I find it difficult to separate the victims completely. I do think they should some have some voice in the system, although they are often too emotionally charged from the incident to think rationally. Even years after the incident, many victims mellow in their thoughts about the crime while the criminal may be still as mean as he ever was.

I know it takes great leaps of logic for me to give more credence to a victim who asks for mercy than one who asks for tough sentencing, but in my system of ethics redemption and forgiveness rate higher than punishment. Beside my personal ethics, though, it seems that the victims who mellow out and move on with their lives might have more to say than the ones who keep the crime alive and wallow in their grief.

In the end, though, there is that question of the criminal paying for his crime. And after thousands of years of trying, we still haven't gotten that part down.

[AllentownJake]

2. He drug and raped a 13 year old girl

I don't really give a shit if he later compensated the 13 year old girl for drugging and raping her.

Does that mean if I win the powerball tommorow I can drug and rape 13 year olds as long as I compensate them for my desire to sodomize them afterwards?

[vadawg]

3. wow first time me and you have ever agreed on anything

guess i can agree with a marxist on at least one thing mate

[AllentownJake]

4. I think most people can agree that just because you are succesful

doesn't give you the right to drug and rape children.

I don't give a fuck who the prosecuter was, I don't give a shit about plea deals.

I'm not a sexual prude, nor do I have problems with consenting what adults do. The fact is a 13 year old is incapable of consent, and from her testimony which was never disputed by Mr. Polansky, she never gave consent.

She was brought over under the guise of something else, given drugs, than forcefully raped.

[democrat2thecore]

26. That's exactly RIGHT. Drew Barrymore is another that was partying with family OK at the age of 10!

Apparently a lot of big names (she says she'll never tell) were hitting on her at 10,11,12 years old.

Stardom shouldn't give anybody a pass to use their star power with children.

[AllentownJake]

31. Replace director with corporate executive

and ask yourself if there would be any defense for his behavior or his running to Europe to avoid punishment.

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Oh, hardly. But that isn't really the question, is it?

[AllentownJake]

16. Drugging and raping a 13 year old is not just a crime

against the 13 year old. It is a crime against society as a whole.

If it were just a crime against the 13 year old we could settle all rapes in civil court. As long as the rapist has money to compensate his victims than I guess the rapist can rape all he wants.

[TreasonousBastard]

38. Where were you when the rape charges were dropped...

back then? Legally, he's not guilty of rape, and can't be charged for it.

You could argue the plea was too lenient, but it's a bit late to talk about paying for crimes gainst society when he'll never be charged with them.

[AllentownJake]

39. If this guy was a High School gym teacher

and not a famous director, he would have been quietly sentenced to a long prison term with a small note in the paper.

I'm sorry, when the elites behave like fucking beast they get a different justice system.

[masuki bance]

7. The victim is no longer a teenager? Are you sure? nt

[LisaL]

10. Hah? You think she is still a teenager after 30 years?

[AllentownJake]

11. When the crime was committed she was 13

Just because she is older now doesn't mean that Roman drug and raped a middle aged woman.

[LisaL]

12. At the present time she isn't a teenager.

Of course it doesn't mean she was a middle aged woman 30 years ago.

[charlie]

20. I think maybe

he's implying Polanski's still on the prowl.

[Shell Beau]

47. No, but maybe she wasn't/isn't the only one.

[proteus_lives]

17. Yeah, bringing a rapist to justice is an awful thing.

So you think rape is ok if a certain amount of time has passed? :puke:

[AllentownJake]

18. or the victim has been compensated

We only want to punish the poor rapist. The rich rapist can rape poorer people as long as they give them money afterwards.

[proteus_lives]

21. And continues to make movies!

It's star-fucking, plain and simple. No one would be defending the rapist Polanski if he was janitor.

[LostInAnomie]

19. I noticed that he fled from justice for 30 years to avoid being convicted of raping a 13 year old.

[TreasonousBastard]

35. The rape charges were dropped at the time and he plead guilty...

to the remaining charge. He didn't flee the trial, he fled because the judge changed the original sentence.

But, never let these minor facts get in the way of righteous indignation.

(One may, of course, argue that the plea deal was far too generous, if one feels the need to argue about anything here.)

[LostInAnomie]

44. I guess he's lucky he had the money to run away for 30 years then...

... instead of actually presenting a defense for having sex with a 13 year old. Of course, if he was going to back out of the plea agreement I guess the prosecutor could have reintroduced the rape and sodomy charges.

[MrModerate]

22. What I've noticed is a lot of unseemly attention to a story . . .

while clearly having villains and victims aplenty, really isn't very important compared to just about anything else in the news.

Why are people obsessing over this?

[AllentownJake]

23. because it is easier to talk about Roman Polansky

than other issues we face as a society.

The same reason any celebrity story gets discussion.

[MrModerate]

25. If what I'm hearing about the hysteria in the US media is correct . . .

That it's the 24/7 Polanski show, then I have to assume that all those network anchors are feeling a little frisson of warmth in their trousers when they intone "13-year-old girl."

Disgusting.

[Liquorice]

28. It's not really that big on our news. CNN has reported it a few times, but it's not nonstop. nt

[AllentownJake]

30. Americans want to be distracted

We can blame the media all we want to. The fact is there are alternative media sources for those who look.

We have a severe cultural problem right now.

There are two wars going on, umemployment is increasing, families are being put out into the street, and Americans would rather discuss Paris Hilton or Dancing with the Stars.

A lot of people want to put all the blame on the leaders, the wealthy, the "powers that be" however Americans are willingly giving up their freedoms economic and otherwise for distractions.

[MrModerate]

43. Well, given a choice between Paris Hilton, Dancing with the Stars . . .

or Polanski, I know what wouldn't make my top two. Ah, well.

[democrat2thecore]

27. Not EVERYTHING we breathe has to be about politics. This is about the rape of a child. Period. -nt

[AllentownJake]

32. Fully agree

However, someone asked why this gets so much attention. Children are being raped all over this country. Many 13 year old girls leaving bad homes end up being forced into prostitution. Not every 13 year old who is raped gets national attention. It would be constructive if this turned into a discussion of a current situation that is occuring in our country.

Roman Polansky is a celebrity and therefore he gets attention paid to him.

[democrat2thecore]

36. And that's true as well. -nt

[TreasonousBastard]

33. I'm guessing that that aren't enough real villains to obsess over, so...

we have to take what we can get.

Aside from painting Hitler moustaches on recent Presidents, criminals seem to be readily available targets for an oversupply of bile and urge for righteous bloodletting. It's not just Polanski, but any criminal who makles the news for some henious act has the torches and pitchforks coming out of the woodwork looking for vengeance.

I'm not sure if this is an American thing or a human thing, but I don't really understand the need to spew spittle over something somebody you don't know does to somebody else you don't know and doesn't really concern you in the least.

Perhaps it is the fear that it could happen to you, but I don't know how this helps. It it confusing security and justice with vengeance.

[AllentownJake]

37. There are plenty of real villians in our society

the problem is something like this allows the real villians to hide more effectively.

[MrModerate]

42. Well, I think it's a human thing, but it seems to be getting worse in the US . . .

Now, that having been said, I've been out of the States for about 2 years now, and have only been in the country about 50% of the time over the last 15 years, so maybe my point of view is distorted by too much exposure to Internet news.

[Hippo_Tron]

29. Even if everything you say is true, it doesn't mean he should get off

Sure the DA probably has political motivations, he's a politician. But doing the right thing and scoring political points aren't always mutually exclusive.

[TreasonousBastard]

34. Well, all the rape charges were dropped back then, and...

he was originally sentenced to a few weeks in jail for the remaining charge of "illicit sex with a minor" or some such thing.

At his appeal last year, the judge admitted there were serious errors in sentencing, so there is a good chance he would just get "time served" if he gets back here. And where would that leave everyone screaming for "justice"?

(Please don't use the term "get off" when referring to this bit of sordid business-- I had to exercise a monumental amount of self-control when replying)

[Hippo_Tron]

45. If he just gets time served, then that's that

Often times people are acquitted or serve lighter sentences because of a technicality. And while people can scream that they deserve a harsher sentence or that that's not fair to the victims, I believe that such rules are absolutely necessary to protect the rights of the accused.

If the judge determines that rules were broken and that Polanski gets "time served" because rules were broken then that's fine with me. But it should be a judge that makes that decision not you, or I, or Polanski.

[JuniperLea]

49. What bullshit you spew...

You need to read and educate yourself...

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskib1.html

If for no other reason than to possibly deter another would be rapist, he needs to serve his time.

[lurky]

48. Don't forget he FLED the COUNTRY.

Let's just forget about the original crime here, because it isn't relevant. The relevant thing is that he pled guilty to a felony, then ran like hell. If you or I fled the country to avoid so much as a weed-possession rap, we would be shit-fucked. He thumbed his nose at the law because he was rich and famous, and he got away with it for 35 years. Now he finally got busted. Bummer.

He has made some great movies: Chinatown is one of my all-time favorite films. And he has enjoyed a long, happy life of wealth, freedom, and international acclaim. He took his chances by running, it paid off quite well, now let him deal with the consequences.